How to get out of this mess

singhters

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May 6, 2012
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257
Can't happen in 1 go so imo,

promote youth, buy 1 or 2 defenders, 1 or 2 midfielders and 1 striker and go from there.

Sell the deadwood and then the season after add some more players but who knows doing the above might shake and wake up some of those bluffers that are there already and then we might actually have a team.
 

Tincanalley

Turns player names into a crappy conversation
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
10,253
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Ireland
How do United get out of this mess? Find new, incredibly rich, competent owners: with a plan and strategy which doesn't involve ripping off the club left, right and centre.

It's now a decade since Summer 2009, when Ronaldo left. Saha had exited a year earlier. Almost imperceptibly, his departure started the decline; Ronaldo's move to Madrid meant it started to gather pace. As the team became more and more dependent on Rooney, there was a very palpable drop-off in United's style of play and quality - and Ferguson did his greatest work ever in papering over the cracks and still winning big things and going close. United were winning on aura, willpower, force of personality, memory almost... but hardly on great football any longer.

Then he left - and the fur hit the fan. 6 years on, what is United's style of play? What is their identity? They've not got one - because they don't have owners who either care enough or understand how to build for the long term. Liverpool do. Tottenham do. Man City do, and have insane amounts of cash available to them too. United don't. United have no plan whatsoever.

"Let's sign a bunch of ludicrously expensive players, and it'll all just magically come right". It's ridiculous. If the Alexis situation, the Lukaku situation, the Pogba situation, the Di Maria situation and the Schweinsteiger situation haven't told United fans loud and clear that things are as wrong as they could possibly be behind the scenes, I've no idea what would. Ditto Jones and Smalling still being there; or Shaw being disgracefully out of shape; or Lingard and Rashford, however much I like both of them, apparently being the entirety of Manchester United's attacking threat despite the club having spent hundreds of millions.

Against City, there wasn't much wrong with United's attitude. They were just completely outclassed by a club which, on the field and off it, is about a decade ahead. I thought United looked like mid-table cloggers for most of the game: hoping for a break, but with no chance beyond that. Is that the manager's fault? No: he's a symptom, not a cause. A club United's size being run properly wouldn't appoint a United legend because "he bleeds United" in the first place. Is it the players' fault? No. Players wouldn't have such poor attitudes if the club was being run properly; if they were inspired by playing for it, instead of worn down by a culture which has collapsed, completely, since Ferguson retired.

Top level sport is all about leadership - and leadership starts at the top. "No leaders on the pitch, no big personalities, they won't stand up and be counted" moan the pundits... but of course there's no leadership on the pitch, because there's none off it. That's how this stuff works. City have had proper leadership for over a decade: they've built, and built, and built some more, always to a plan, always upgrading to a better manager only when the previous one had obviously reached his sell-by date. Liverpool have had proper leadership since FSG bought the club, and especially since they appointed Klopp. Very few managers in world football can play very attractive football, build for the long term and get results now too. Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino are three among a tiny group across the world.

Klopp is reported to have turned United down in Summer 2014. I've no idea if that's true or not; all I know is I was astonished when Van Gaal went to Old Trafford instead. Would Poch go there now? No chance. Why leave a club in a great place off the pitch, where he's adored, for an absolute shambles of a club with higher expectations and total incompetents he'd have to work with? It's the poisoned chalice par excellence now.

It doesn't matter how much the club spends when it all goes on completely wrong kinds of players. Would United have signed someone like Andy Robertson, and improved him in the way Liverpool have? Would Raheem Sterling have been half as good for United as he's been for City? Demanding, world class managers who know how they're going to play attract and improve quality footballers. Look at Harry Kane signing a new contract at Spurs. He's happy there, even though it's hellishly difficult for them to win either of the biggest prizes on offer. How many players are happy at United? Why on Earth would they be?

It's a fiasco; a never-ending debacle. With those in command (sic) in total denial about how far the club's fallen behind. Even Old Trafford itself looks tired, dated, in desperate need of a lick of paint. And removing Woodward, appalling at his job though he is, ain't some magic bullet either. This has been going on far, far too long now for it to be so. When this many players fail, when this many managers fail, the problem's much more fundamental. Nothing will change until the Glazers go.
Elegantly put. Pretty well sums up the situation. Just out of curiousity, how come you are only joining now, Shaun? Just 11 messages.
 

Galactico

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
330
How do United get out of this mess? Find new, incredibly rich, competent owners: with a plan and strategy which doesn't involve ripping off the club left, right and centre.

It's now a decade since Summer 2009, when Ronaldo left. Saha had exited a year earlier. Almost imperceptibly, his departure started the decline; Ronaldo's move to Madrid meant it started to gather pace. As the team became more and more dependent on Rooney, there was a very palpable drop-off in United's style of play and quality - and Ferguson did his greatest work ever in papering over the cracks and still winning big things and going close. United were winning on aura, willpower, force of personality, memory almost... but hardly on great football any longer.

Then he left - and the fur hit the fan. 6 years on, what is United's style of play? What is their identity? They've not got one - because they don't have owners who either care enough or understand how to build for the long term. Liverpool do. Tottenham do. Man City do, and have insane amounts of cash available to them too. United don't. United have no plan whatsoever.

"Let's sign a bunch of ludicrously expensive players, and it'll all just magically come right". It's ridiculous. If the Alexis situation, the Lukaku situation, the Pogba situation, the Di Maria situation and the Schweinsteiger situation haven't told United fans loud and clear that things are as wrong as they could possibly be behind the scenes, I've no idea what would. Ditto Jones and Smalling still being there; or Shaw being disgracefully out of shape; or Lingard and Rashford, however much I like both of them, apparently being the entirety of Manchester United's attacking threat despite the club having spent hundreds of millions.

Against City, there wasn't much wrong with United's attitude. They were just completely outclassed by a club which, on the field and off it, is about a decade ahead. I thought United looked like mid-table cloggers for most of the game: hoping for a break, but with no chance beyond that. Is that the manager's fault? No: he's a symptom, not a cause. A club United's size being run properly wouldn't appoint a United legend because "he bleeds United" in the first place. Is it the players' fault? No. Players wouldn't have such poor attitudes if the club was being run properly; if they were inspired by playing for it, instead of worn down by a culture which has collapsed, completely, since Ferguson retired.

Top level sport is all about leadership - and leadership starts at the top. "No leaders on the pitch, no big personalities, they won't stand up and be counted" moan the pundits... but of course there's no leadership on the pitch, because there's none off it. That's how this stuff works. City have had proper leadership for over a decade: they've built, and built, and built some more, always to a plan, always upgrading to a better manager only when the previous one had obviously reached his sell-by date. Liverpool have had proper leadership since FSG bought the club, and especially since they appointed Klopp. Very few managers in world football can play very attractive football, build for the long term and get results now too. Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino are three among a tiny group across the world.

Klopp is reported to have turned United down in Summer 2014. I've no idea if that's true or not; all I know is I was astonished when Van Gaal went to Old Trafford instead. Would Poch go there now? No chance. Why leave a club in a great place off the pitch, where he's adored, for an absolute shambles of a club with higher expectations and total incompetents he'd have to work with? It's the poisoned chalice par excellence now.

It doesn't matter how much the club spends when it all goes on completely wrong kinds of players. Would United have signed someone like Andy Robertson, and improved him in the way Liverpool have? Would Raheem Sterling have been half as good for United as he's been for City? Demanding, world class managers who know how they're going to play attract and improve quality footballers. Look at Harry Kane signing a new contract at Spurs. He's happy there, even though it's hellishly difficult for them to win either of the biggest prizes on offer. How many players are happy at United? Why on Earth would they be?

It's a fiasco; a never-ending debacle. With those in command (sic) in total denial about how far the club's fallen behind. Even Old Trafford itself looks tired, dated, in desperate need of a lick of paint. And removing Woodward, appalling at his job though he is, ain't some magic bullet either. This has been going on far, far too long now for it to be so. When this many players fail, when this many managers fail, the problem's much more fundamental. Nothing will change until the Glazers go.
Great post. This is the absolute reality of what we are facing. Leadership starts from the top.
 

Shaun Lawson

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Dec 26, 2015
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Norwich City
Elegantly put. Pretty well sums up the situation. Just out of curiousity, how come you are only joining now, Shaun? Just 11 messages.
Oh, I signed up a bit over a year ago now. Made a few posts around that time. But I'm always just passing through a bit, cos well, check which club I support!

I'll always take an interest in United because, well, they're Manchester United! I take an interest in all the major clubs, basically.
 

UnitedFan93

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Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
579
How do United get out of this mess? Find new, incredibly rich, competent owners: with a plan and strategy which doesn't involve ripping off the club left, right and centre.

It's now a decade since Summer 2009, when Ronaldo left. Saha had exited a year earlier. Almost imperceptibly, his departure started the decline; Ronaldo's move to Madrid meant it started to gather pace. As the team became more and more dependent on Rooney, there was a very palpable drop-off in United's style of play and quality - and Ferguson did his greatest work ever in papering over the cracks and still winning big things and going close. United were winning on aura, willpower, force of personality, memory almost... but hardly on great football any longer.

Then he left - and the fur hit the fan. 6 years on, what is United's style of play? What is their identity? They've not got one - because they don't have owners who either care enough or understand how to build for the long term. Liverpool do. Tottenham do. Man City do, and have insane amounts of cash available to them too. United don't. United have no plan whatsoever.

"Let's sign a bunch of ludicrously expensive players, and it'll all just magically come right". It's ridiculous. If the Alexis situation, the Lukaku situation, the Pogba situation, the Di Maria situation and the Schweinsteiger situation haven't told United fans loud and clear that things are as wrong as they could possibly be behind the scenes, I've no idea what would. Ditto Jones and Smalling still being there; or Shaw being disgracefully out of shape; or Lingard and Rashford, however much I like both of them, apparently being the entirety of Manchester United's attacking threat despite the club having spent hundreds of millions.

Against City, there wasn't much wrong with United's attitude. They were just completely outclassed by a club which, on the field and off it, is about a decade ahead. I thought United looked like mid-table cloggers for most of the game: hoping for a break, but with no chance beyond that. Is that the manager's fault? No: he's a symptom, not a cause. A club United's size being run properly wouldn't appoint a United legend because "he bleeds United" in the first place. Is it the players' fault? No. Players wouldn't have such poor attitudes if the club was being run properly; if they were inspired by playing for it, instead of worn down by a culture which has collapsed, completely, since Ferguson retired.

Top level sport is all about leadership - and leadership starts at the top. "No leaders on the pitch, no big personalities, they won't stand up and be counted" moan the pundits... but of course there's no leadership on the pitch, because there's none off it. That's how this stuff works. City have had proper leadership for over a decade: they've built, and built, and built some more, always to a plan, always upgrading to a better manager only when the previous one had obviously reached his sell-by date. Liverpool have had proper leadership since FSG bought the club, and especially since they appointed Klopp. Very few managers in world football can play very attractive football, build for the long term and get results now too. Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino are three among a tiny group across the world.

Klopp is reported to have turned United down in Summer 2014. I've no idea if that's true or not; all I know is I was astonished when Van Gaal went to Old Trafford instead. Would Poch go there now? No chance. Why leave a club in a great place off the pitch, where he's adored, for an absolute shambles of a club with higher expectations and total incompetents he'd have to work with? It's the poisoned chalice par excellence now.

It doesn't matter how much the club spends when it all goes on completely wrong kinds of players. Would United have signed someone like Andy Robertson, and improved him in the way Liverpool have? Would Raheem Sterling have been half as good for United as he's been for City? Demanding, world class managers who know how they're going to play attract and improve quality footballers. Look at Harry Kane signing a new contract at Spurs. He's happy there, even though it's hellishly difficult for them to win either of the biggest prizes on offer. How many players are happy at United? Why on Earth would they be?

It's a fiasco; a never-ending debacle. With those in command (sic) in total denial about how far the club's fallen behind. Even Old Trafford itself looks tired, dated, in desperate need of a lick of paint. And removing Woodward, appalling at his job though he is, ain't some magic bullet either. This has been going on far, far too long now for it to be so. When this many players fail, when this many managers fail, the problem's much more fundamental. Nothing will change until the Glazers go.
Outstanding post! I agree with everything you say.

The club needs a complete reboot starting with the Glazers. We as fans need to drive these corporate criminals out of our club.
 

Foxbatt

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Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
I won't blame the GlzersG directly. The players have to take some sort of responsibility. Surely at this level they should be able to pass to a team mate and to know when and how to move off the ball and shoot and hit the target at least?
I also read an article by Adabayor who said Rio and Vidic were physcos and Rio will insult everyone on the pitch and would even scream at Scholes and Giggs. Vidic was ready to kill anyone on the pitch. He would do anything to stop the opponents. Everyone was scared of them.
Now we have Smalling and Jones. They all fall laughing when they see them.
 

Stretfordender

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,096
Until the Glazers and Woodward feck off then the club is going absolutely nowhere. Hate to say this, but they’re like a cancer within the club and are totally holding us back. They don’t care about winning trophies as long as the money is coming in then that’s all that counts. Until we get a structure, philosophy, proper recruitment policy and trust the players coming through the academy then we’ll be in the wilderness for years to come.
 

Kill 'em all

Pastor of Muppets
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
10,546
Remember the days of our only troubles were how inconsistent Nani was or how much Berbatov slows down our play. Those were the days. :(
 

Ralph1386

Full Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
3,440
Until the Glazers and Woodward feck off then the club is going absolutely nowhere. Hate to say this, but they’re like a cancer within the club and are totally holding us back. They don’t care about winning trophies as long as the money is coming in then that’s all that counts. Until we get a structure, philosophy, proper recruitment policy and trust the players coming through the academy then we’ll be in the wilderness for years to come.
I was against it initially but maybe the Saudi takeover is a better option.