How to make club football more competitive: A proposal

[Physiocrat]

With all the City breaking the FFP rules etc. I think it is time to recognise that in football, where the teams are individually owned, any financial infringement will be difficult to prove until many years after the event and the authorities may well be reluctant to enforce harsh sanctions.

Much better would be to have football based rules instead, enforced at the UEFA or FIFA level, otherwise some leagues could benefit at the expense on another. I propose the following 3 rules:

1. Maximum league squad sizes of 18 plus 7 under 21 players. This will make it more difficult for the richer clubs to hoard all the best players. Allowing 7 under 21 players in the squads will hopefully promote the chance for young players to prove themselves at the highest level. Also looking at this it is rare to get more than 7 injuries at once you you would be rarely forced to play youth but even if it did, I see that as a benefit.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php


2. Benches of three plus an additional two under 21 players, with a total of three subs only in matches. Many players will be happy to sit on the bench of the big sides but would they be willing to rarely make the match day squad if they could start for slightly worse sides? It will also allow utility players to be useful again. As with the squad sizes allowing an additional under 21 players for free will give them more chances to be thrown on.


3. Three foreigner rule (again this should be defined at the UEFA or FIFA level so it is evenly applied between countries. It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England). They had such a foreigner restriction in the late 80s in Serie A (the most competitive era in Serie A was the early 80s when they had a two foreigner rule but I think the three foreigner rule gives a bit more flexibility). It will again prevent the top sides amassing all the worlds best talent and would allow more minor European leagues to be of higher quality, which will be good for fans in those countries. It would also mean the African domestic game might become decent rather than most vaguely good African player immediately moving to Europe; this would also be true of South America.

I do think this would reduce the quality of the top sides but I think the increased competition would more than make up for it. I do not expect any of these changes to be implemented in the short or medium term (the foreigner rule would be prohibited by the EU) but if such thinking becomes more widespread, the rules could change in the long run.

 

[Baxquux]

Better PED testing

 

[Scandi Red]

Good suggestions but don't forget that money, not to mention money and money. Money..

 

[NoLogo]

I wouldn't even mind a European super league, if every team would be able to qualify for it, and it's not just reserved for some top teams. On top of that, a salary cap that is based on a league's average income wouldn't be a bad idea either if it's enforced by UEFA. I think when it comes to keeping leagues competitive, we can actually learn a thing or two looking at the US sports industry.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Good ideas, I like it.

 

[SilentWitness]

3. Three foreigner rule (again this should be defined at the UEFA or FIFA level so it is evenly applied between countries. It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England). They had such a foreigner restriction in the late 80s in Serie A (the most competitive era in Serie A was the early 80s when they had a two foreigner rule but I think the three foreigner rule gives a bit more flexibility). It will again prevent the top sides amassing all the worlds best talent and would allow more minor European leagues to be of higher quality, which will be good for fans in those countries. It would also mean the African domestic game might become decent rather than most vaguely good African player immediately moving to Europe; this would also be true of South America.

I don't think that any league in Africa for example would ever be in a position of power or wealth as the EPL is, so how is it fair to block opportunities for African (or other) players in the PL?

 

[Nicolarra90]

The league system is getting stalemate all across Europe.
I really dislike the playoffs system but at least you could give other teams a shot in two legged games.

 

[Physiocrat]

I don't think that any league in Africa for example would ever be in a position of power or wealth as the EPL is, so how is it fair to block opportunities for African (or other) players in the PL?

That's just a fact of life you can't change. Some countries are richer than others. Now there might be ways of narrowing the gap but this is far beyond football. My goal is to make football as entertaining as possible for the fan.

 

[VojjE]

3. Three foreigner rule (again this should be defined at the UEFA or FIFA level so it is evenly applied between countries. It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England). They had such a foreigner restriction in the late 80s in Serie A (the most competitive era in Serie A was the early 80s when they had a two foreigner rule but I think the three foreigner rule gives a bit more flexibility). It will again prevent the top sides amassing all the worlds best talent and would allow more minor European leagues to be of higher quality, which will be good for fans in those countries. It would also mean the African domestic game might become decent rather than most vaguely good African player immediately moving to Europe; this would also be true of South America.

Think this would clash heavily with labor laws for EU citizens. Wouldn't be too effective if England was the odd man out.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Take 4th UCL spot from League position and give it to winners of FA Cup. Gives mid table or even Championship clubs extra incentive to go for it even if it harms League position.

Restrict outgoing loan moves to five over 21s a season. Also, make it so you can only a loan player out twice after he's over the age of 21. Stops clubs stockpiling players.

Force all Premier League clubs to play one pre season game v a local EFL/Non League per summer. Allow top clubs to give a little back.

All non Saturday 3pm games should be allowed to be broadcast. Ridiculous situation when United played Leeds midweek and the game couldn't be watched on TV. Fully in favour of the 3pm blackout staying.

More domestic Champions to receive automatic qualification to Champions League group stages.

 

[SilentWitness]

That's just a fact of life you can't change. Some countries are richer than others. Now there might be ways of narrowing the gap but this is far beyond football. My goal is to make football as entertaining as possible for the fan.

Why does blocking certain players increase entertainment? I think the PL is very entertaining despite the dominance of City.

 

[matherto]

Why does blocking certain players increase entertainment? I think the PL is very entertaining despite the dominance of City.

I guess it means there's a bigger spread of teams with better players from all over rather than concentrated in the rich leagues.

More like the old days?

Evidence might show against it and it was always the case of the same teams in the end but it might stop the same 6/8ish teams being the CL knockout stage every season.

But going back to opinions, I'd get rid of the Bosman ruling (I know there'd be challenges in courts over that) and restrict transfers in general to a certain amount. Make sure players and clubs honour their contracts but don't let someone buy the league/cups. Sure the richer clubs could buy more expensive players but not to the same degree and make squad building harder so that perhaps academies are more utilised and scouting is improved so that clubs use their limited amount of transfers properly.

 

[Physiocrat]

Why does blocking certain players increase entertainment? I think the PL is very entertaining despite the dominance of City.

It would prevent massive dominance by the top clubs as they couldn't amass all the worlds best players in each position nearly as easily and so it would make it much more unpredictable. I would prefer a time like the 80s in Serie A in terms of competition, not playing style. It was clearly the world's best league but it was so open who could win it.

Winners:

80/81 - Juventus
81/82 - Juventus
82/83 - Roma
83/84 - Juventus
84/85 - Hellas Verona
85/86 - Juventus
86/87 - Napoli
87-88 - Milan
88-89 - Inter

If I cheat a bit the next two are Napoli and Sampdoria. We have nothing approaching this level of competition today. Clearly money is a factor, but as I stated before it is very difficult to prove whether you broke financial rules and easy to get round. Without the foreigner rule, there is no way Maradona ends up at Napoli.

 

[Physiocrat]

I guess it means there's a bigger spread of teams with better players from all over rather than concentrated in the rich leagues.

More like the old days?

Evidence might show against it and it was always the case of the same teams in the end but it might stop the same 6/8ish teams being the CL knockout stage every season

It tends to be a few big sides that win, that was always true but it is not like today. See above the list of Serie A winners in the 80s to see what I am trying to achieve.

 

[Red the Bear]

So just enforce pre bossman rules, im pretty sure it's not possible legally speaking.

 

[SilentWitness]

It would prevent massive dominance by the top clubs as they couldn't amass all the worlds best players in each position nearly as easily and so it would make it much more unpredictable. I would prefer a time like the 80s in Serie A in terms of competition, not playing style. It was clearly the world's best league but it was so open who could win it.

Winners:

80/81 - Juventus
81/82 - Juventus
82/83 - Roma
83/84 - Juventus
84/85 - Hellas Verona
85/86 - Juventus
86/87 - Napoli
87-88 - Milan
88-89 - Inter

If I cheat a bit the next two are Napoli and Sampdoria. We have nothing approaching this level of competition today. Clearly money is a factor, but as I stated before it is very difficult to prove whether you broke financial rules and easy to get round. Without the foreigner rule, there is no way Maradona ends up at Napoli.

Okay, but you're still not telling me how that's more entertainment. Unpredictability doesn't always mean more or less entertainment.

Plus, as you've noted, wealth etc. is a massive issue with bringing in a rule like that because it would take decades for other leagues to catch up, perhaps never being able to do so, so we are going to deprive foreign players the opportunities for something which may or may not be true (entertainment and unpredictable). Just because something was the case in the 80s/90s it doesn't mean it would now.

I understand the HG type rules but I think that's as far as you can go now really in terms of rules until you get into an area which toes the line.

 

[Physiocrat]

Okay, but you're still not telling me how that's more entertainment. Unpredictability doesn't always mean more or less entertainment.

Plus, as you've noted, wealth etc. is a massive issue with bringing in a rule like that because it would take decades for other leagues to catch up, perhaps never being able to do so, so we are going to deprive foreign players the opportunities for something which may or may not be true (entertainment and unpredictable). Just because something was the case in the 80s/90s it doesn't mean it would now.

I would say with sport entertainment is a mix of quality and how close the games are. Today the mix is too far towards quality and not far enough towards closeness. As I pointed out before Serie A in the 80s was a league with massive quality but was more unpredictable - Zico played for Udinese for instance. Ideally you'd want four or five sides which could mount a title challenge.

In my proposal you negate a lot of the financial advantage at least with respect to the Champions League/ European Cup since you come under hard limits of talent earlier. I agree bringing it in immediately could be a problem although you could phase entry over a 5-10 year time frame to make the transition smoother.

 

[scottser]

may i humbly suggest that both football players and supporters be represented on the boards of all football clubs and governing bodies and given weighted voting preferences.

 

[Red Star One]

not gonna happen obviously, but these are good suggestions, also the salary cap would be welcome.

 

[Skills]

@Physiocrat already got there before you:

Extreme Idea
- 23 is the total number of 21+ aged players you're allowed to hold as a club (this includes loanees)
- You can only register 19 senior players in your PL squad
- Each matchday squad must have 5 academy graduates (players at the club aged 17 or earlier)
- No buyback clauses
- The players who don't meet the 21+ cut off walk on a free at the end of the transfer window (this will be a cluster feck at the start with the inflated squads we have now, but soon it'll settle down)

So what would that mean for United this season?

We'd have to cut our PL squad by 6 as we have 25 senior players registered. We also have 4 players over the age of 21 on loan on top of that.

It'd introduce more variation and randomness to the game. If you have an injury crisis you might have to start an under 21 backline - which is fine, because these wildcards is what keeps football interesting.

The 3 foreigner rule I don't think is good. It would just encourage clubs to hoard players of the home nation to meet the requirement, and will negatively effect the development of those younger players.

 

[JPRouve]

It would prevent massive dominance by the top clubs as they couldn't amass all the worlds best players in each position nearly as easily and so it would make it much more unpredictable. I would prefer a time like the 80s in Serie A in terms of competition, not playing style. It was clearly the world's best league but it was so open who could win it.

Winners:

80/81 - Juventus
81/82 - Juventus
82/83 - Roma
83/84 - Juventus
84/85 - Hellas Verona
85/86 - Juventus
86/87 - Napoli
87-88 - Milan
88-89 - Inter

If I cheat a bit the next two are Napoli and Sampdoria. We have nothing approaching this level of competition today. Clearly money is a factor, but as I stated before it is very difficult to prove whether you broke financial rules and easy to get round. Without the foreigner rule, there is no way Maradona ends up at Napoli.

You mention money as if it was an afterthought when in reality it is the first reason. Top players foreigners and italians were spread around the league because almost all teams were sugar daddied. The reason Football has changed and isn't as competitive is because someone sold the idea that Football was a business and that only revenues generated by cllubs were acceptable. The issue with that idea is that it put a glass ceiling over nearly every teams that weren't already at the top and also weren't in the largest cities in Europe.

Now your suggestions are pretty good for the PL, it would force players out of their current leagues in order to get a similar or not too inferior pay check in mid and bottom table PL teams.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

With all the City breaking the FFP rules etc. I think it is time to recognise that in football, where the teams are individually owned, any financial infringement will be difficult to prove until many years after the event and the authorities may well be reluctant to enforce harsh sanctions.

Much better would be to have football based rules instead, enforced at the UEFA or FIFA level, otherwise some leagues could benefit at the expense on another. I propose the following 3 rules:

1. Maximum league squad sizes of 18 plus 7 under 21 players. This will make it more difficult for the richer clubs to hoard all the best players. Allowing 7 under 21 players in the squads will hopefully promote the chance for young players to prove themselves at the highest level. Also looking at this it is rare to get more than 7 injuries at once you you would be rarely forced to play youth but even if it did, I see that as a benefit.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php


2. Benches of three plus an additional two under 21 players, with a total of three subs only in matches. Many players will be happy to sit on the bench of the big sides but would they be willing to rarely make the match day squad if they could start for slightly worse sides? It will also allow utility players to be useful again. As with the squad sizes allowing an additional under 21 players for free will give them more chances to be thrown on.


3. Three foreigner rule (again this should be defined at the UEFA or FIFA level so it is evenly applied between countries. It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England). They had such a foreigner restriction in the late 80s in Serie A (the most competitive era in Serie A was the early 80s when they had a two foreigner rule but I think the three foreigner rule gives a bit more flexibility). It will again prevent the top sides amassing all the worlds best talent and would allow more minor European leagues to be of higher quality, which will be good for fans in those countries. It would also mean the African domestic game might become decent rather than most vaguely good African player immediately moving to Europe; this would also be true of South America.

I do think this would reduce the quality of the top sides but I think the increased competition would more than make up for it. I do not expect any of these changes to be implemented in the short or medium term (the foreigner rule would be prohibited by the EU) but if such thinking becomes more widespread, the rules could change in the long run.

The foreigner rule could work. The first rule though, I don't see how that would stop City from dominating. This season they played several big games barely making a sub, Mahrez is one of the best wingers in the league and he didn't even come off the bench half the time. City are masters of having a great first XI with 4-5 high-class replacements ready to go covering several positions, they'd probably be stronger if this room came in. The clubs that have massive squads that this would affect the most - Chelsea and United for example - it would actually probably do them a favour in getting rid of deadwood. I do appreciate the ideas in general to stop stockpiling. Chelsea are the worst around for that, if even just to spread around the quality of Chelsea's reserves to smaller teams in the league.

 

[Dancfc]

A good start will be the rest of the league not acting there's four winners and treating top four like a trophy.

 

[ericPSG]

US Sport system: Salary cap + draft

You'll still have big market teams that win more often than others but small market could emerge once in a while

 

[Skills]

The foreigner rule could work. The first rule though, I don't see how that would stop City from dominating. This season they played several big games barely making a sub, Mahrez is one of the best wingers in the league and he didn't even come off the bench half the time. City are masters of having a great first XI with 4-5 high-class replacements ready to go covering several positions, they'd probably be stronger if this room came in. The clubs that have massive squads that this would affect the most - Chelsea and United for example - it would actually probably do them a favour in getting rid of deadwood. I do appreciate the ideas in general to stop stockpiling. Chelsea are the worst around for that, if even just to spread around the quality of Chelsea's reserves to smaller teams in the league.

The foreigner rule makes it worse. You want the rich clubs to stop the clubs hoarding talent, and have it spread across the league.

By artificially making a subset of players more valuable than the rest, you're encouraging them to hoard that specific group of players to meet this arbitrary requirement.

 

[Skills]

US Sport system: Salary cap + draft

You'll still have big market teams that win more often than others but small market could emerge once in a while

+1 for profit ownership models

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Better PED testing

You jest, but I suspect that this would make the league a lot more competitive with City and Liverpool slowing down considerably.

 

[adexkola]

+1 for profit ownership models

Yes. You can have leagues where players, owners, fans and regulatory bodies can all benefit, instead of only players benefiting while fans get milked and ownership is unappealing except to oligarchs and private equity sharks and Sheikhs

 

[SilentWitness]

I would say with sport entertainment is a mix of quality and how close the games are. Today the mix is too far towards quality and not far enough towards closeness. As I pointed out before Serie A in the 80s was a league with massive quality but was more unpredictable - Zico played for Udinese for instance. Ideally you'd want four or five sides which could mount a title challenge.

In my proposal you negate a lot of the financial advantage at least with respect to the Champions League/ European Cup since you come under hard limits of talent earlier. I agree bringing it in immediately could be a problem although you could phase entry over a 5-10 year time frame to make the transition smoother.

As someone else mentioned you’d just get the best clubs taking all the best non-foreign players. Plus I don’t think we should get to a stage where we are limiting the opportunities of others. Arguably that’s already happening so to add something that would make that worse (in this instance limiting opportunities for players who without there wouldn’t be a sport) is wrong.

 

[theballisround]

The 3 foreigner rule will take out at least 50% of the league's quality.

Also, it's a bit of a "racist" one. Football is a job like any other. You don't hire people based on their nationality, you hire them for their skills.

If you want to make English players better, redo the whole youth setup, don't hire managers over 30-40 that are stuck in the hoof it type of football, find a way for them English players to not get on the JLingz bandwagon attitude and so on. Don't give me the "it will raise the competitiveness of the league", the good English players will still go to the top clubs.

Also, what's with the "Let's balance the competition" loser mentality? You have the most balanced league in the world, not a two horse race like in Germany, Spain, France end even Italy up to a point a few years ago. Is it the league/competition's sport that United, Chelsea and a few other clubs are ran by idiots?

If you balance out a competition for the sake of it you take the creative factor out and, in the long run, you actually reduce quality because everyone will adhere to the same processes and the top guns will fight harder to feck up the little ones. (Brighton and Bournemouth are the prime examples of people creatively being competitive).

There are two ways on how you achieve success in business in general, you either pour a shitload of money in, buy smart, feck up the competition, etc, or you have a very good and creative product(Brighton). It's not anyone's fault that the other 10-12 clubs in the EPL are ran by idiots and aren't good at it (IE: Everton).

 

[Matthew84!]

Really wouldn't bother with any of that, once Pep leaves City the league will be won by many different teams.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The foreigner rule makes it worse. You want the rich clubs to stop the clubs hoarding talent, and have it spread across the league.

By artificially making a subset of players more valuable than the rest, you're encouraging them to hoard that specific group of players to meet this arbitrary requirement.

If City only had 3 foreigners though, they would have who? Haaland, De Bruyne, Dias perhaps? That means Bernardo Silva, Gundogan, Rodri, Ederson, Mahrez etc have to go somewhere else, leaving the option open for others.

 

[711]

It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England).

There is no possibility of this. I think that if English clubs start to dominate Europe again, as they once did, it is quite likely other European clubs will push for a stronger 'foreigner' rule, precisely to disadvantage English clubs.

What separates the English league is the sheer number of top clubs that would have to compete for English talent, whereas all the best Spaniards would go to two clubs, the French one, Germany one, etc. Maybe Italy would be different but they're bent as a nine bob note and would just have loads foreigners with Italian grannies anyway.

 

[Baxquux]

You jest, but I suspect that this would make the league a lot more competitive with City and Liverpool slowing down considerably.

Ha, I'm not joking: not that I expect this to be made more stringent/up-to-date with the newest pharmaceutical cheat-codes any time soon....

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat already got there before you:



The 3 foreigner rule I don't think is good. It would just encourage clubs to hoard players of the home nation to meet the requirement, and will negatively effect the development of those younger players.

Thinking on similar lines, I like it.

I don't think my proposal will harm younger players given the space on the bench. Also hoarding players in general will be tough given the other restrictions.

 

[Bobski]

Ultimately you want a situation were top players are playing, strengthening the level of competition and not sitting on the benches or the stands of a small number of teams. Salary Cap, limit the size of squads, yes it will lower the level of the top teams but we might actually have some sporting competition back. Wouldn't it be great for teams like Ajax, PSV, Porto, Benfica, Dynamo Kiev, Dortmund, Galatasary, Olympiakos etc to actually be live threats instead of just an opportunity for stars to run up their stats.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I don't know that you can make proposals that simultaneously make leagues more competitive from within, and more competitive with each other.

Minor European leagues import players too. Those countries are pretty small compared to Italy, Spain, Germany... I don't know that 'keeping their best' offsets 'losing most imports.'

 

[Tender Teacher]

Is football really *that* bad right now? Sure, I don't like some aspects of the sport's governance, but if you look at the hard facts and figures:

More people than ever before from across the world love the beautiful game.

 

[Physiocrat]

You mention money as if it was an afterthought when in reality it is the first reason. Top players foreigners and italians were spread around the league because almost all teams were sugar daddied. The reason Football has changed and isn't as competitive is because someone sold the idea that Football was a business and that only revenues generated by cllubs were acceptable. The issue with that idea is that it put a glass ceiling over nearly every teams that weren't already at the top and also weren't in the largest cities in Europe.

Now your suggestions are pretty good for the PL, it would force players out of their current leagues in order to get a similar or not too inferior pay check in mid and bottom table PL teams.

I'm not sure how reducing squad sizes and enforcing foreigner rules will force players out of continental Europe to play in England.

On Serie A, I wasn't saying money wasn't involved, it clearly was. It is just that even if one side had massive amounts more money than any other, the restriction on foreign players would limit how good that side could be.

 

[Oranges038]

With all the City breaking the FFP rules etc. I think it is time to recognise that in football, where the teams are individually owned, any financial infringement will be difficult to prove until many years after the event and the authorities may well be reluctant to enforce harsh sanctions.

Much better would be to have football based rules instead, enforced at the UEFA or FIFA level, otherwise some leagues could benefit at the expense on another. I propose the following 3 rules:

1. Maximum league squad sizes of 18 plus 7 under 21 players. This will make it more difficult for the richer clubs to hoard all the best players. Allowing 7 under 21 players in the squads will hopefully promote the chance for young players to prove themselves at the highest level. Also looking at this it is rare to get more than 7 injuries at once you you would be rarely forced to play youth but even if it did, I see that as a benefit.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php


2. Benches of three plus an additional two under 21 players, with a total of three subs only in matches. Many players will be happy to sit on the bench of the big sides but would they be willing to rarely make the match day squad if they could start for slightly worse sides? It will also allow utility players to be useful again. As with the squad sizes allowing an additional under 21 players for free will give them more chances to be thrown on.


3. Three foreigner rule (again this should be defined at the UEFA or FIFA level so it is evenly applied between countries. It should also take into account historical factors e.g. the norm of Welsh, Scottish and Irish players playing in England). They had such a foreigner restriction in the late 80s in Serie A (the most competitive era in Serie A was the early 80s when they had a two foreigner rule but I think the three foreigner rule gives a bit more flexibility). It will again prevent the top sides amassing all the worlds best talent and would allow more minor European leagues to be of higher quality, which will be good for fans in those countries. It would also mean the African domestic game might become decent rather than most vaguely good African player immediately moving to Europe; this would also be true of South America.

I do think this would reduce the quality of the top sides but I think the increased competition would more than make up for it. I do not expect any of these changes to be implemented in the short or medium term (the foreigner rule would be prohibited by the EU) but if such thinking becomes more widespread, the rules could change in the long run.

Should also move back 5 players on the bench and only 3 subs.

This whole bullshit of everyone pretty much being available to play and having 5 subs, means teams don't have to risk pissing players off by not have them in the match day squad, but also being able to change half the team to ensude everyone gets game time is balls, it's not u8s, players should be pissed for not playing and if the numbers were reduced, there wouldn't be so many players just happy to collect their money and sit on the bench waiting for a few minutes every week.