Ralph1386
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AgreedDoes it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
AgreedDoes it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
You only have to see the pressing stats in another thread. Ronaldo and Greenwood aren’t doing their defensive job. None of the front 3 are tracking back leaving us exposed. Take City as the best example. Every single player defends as a unit and presses. We simply don’t do that. Add into the mix Bruno being too high up the pitch and Pogba being a shambolic CM defensively I’m really not surprised we are constantly overrun in midfield.Pushing an AMs base position to CM is going to solve your problems? Because that’s the only real difference between 2-3-1 and 3-3. The job of the front 3 doesn’t change and their position doesn’t change.
In fact, I don’t think Bruno is suited to CM so it would be detrimental to do so.
For a poster I rarely agree with, you’ve finally hit a nail on the head.It's literally nothing to do with formation. It's to do with the coaching on and off the ball. 352, 442, 4231, 433, it doesn't matter that much. They can all be coached to be successful. But it needs an understanding of what our team has/needs for balance, and then the ability to coach them into how to execute it properly. Ole can't do either.
I agree formations aren't the problem, but it goes way deeper than the defence. Our attack is also awful relative to the talent we have out on the pitch, there is no identity, no way of playing, we rely on individual brilliance to create things. How often do you see us actually slice through the opposition in a game?Formations are not the problem.
Until we have a defence that can stop opposition goals we are going to struggle and our entire coaching team, despite the playing talent available, seem to be going backwards
If we can fix the defence first, we'll be halfway there. I think that's the low hanging fruitI agree formations aren't the problem, but it goes way deeper than the defence. Our attack is also awful relative to the talent we have out on the pitch, there is no identity, no way of playing, we rely on individual brilliance to create things. How often do you see us actually slice through the opposition in a game?
The problem with the OP's team is there is no work rate in it, you've got a front 3 that will barely press, then a midfield 3 with Pogba who needs legs around him, but then put two players around him who are slow. That team would be totally overrun, which tbh is already what happens vs anyone half decent anyway.
Exactly. Management isn’t just about a formation. It’s about coaching players to do exactly what you want, and that requires motivation, and he’s lost that quality, if he ever had it.Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
Exactly. The issue is not the formation, its the manager himself. Players are clueless under this regime.This play formation X Y Z crap again. It does not matter if Ole play 352 433 442 or whatever you name it because he does not have the tactical knowledge to apply those formations effectively. A lot of world class managers already said that formation does not matter at all, it is just a base shape in which your team play. 352 can be offensive and defensive depending on the coach. 433 will not magically make this team plays better unless the one who plays the formation is a new manager. This is not FIFA.
James with his work rate would have been covering for the flaws in the team. Last season we finished the season with four good forward players in Rashford, Edi, Bruno and Greenwood. We had Diallo who came in, scored a good goal and was put to pasture immediately after, I suspected that denying him further chances was because the manager wanted to prove that Sancho was needed.Ironically, and please don’t shoot the messenger, we’d have been much more balanced as a team if we’d kept James and played him as a hard working wide player. Would be a much better balance with Ronaldo. At present one decent pass is bisecting half our team and totally exposing us. Sancho and CR7 were really unnecessary signings this summer (as much as I love their talents)
Either a 4-3-3 or a 3-4-3 either way we need to stiffen up the spine of the team but I don't think any of those works with Ronnie. Like you said in the EPL you need everyone pulling his weight which we won't get with Ronaldo and the odd tap in won't make up for that.I dont think there is any going back to be honest. We have to start dominating games. Means, we need to control the midfield. With Fred or McT it's not going to happen. He has to cut his ego and bring Donny back.
A base of Matic with Donny and Pogba would give us complete control. Rashford, Ronaldo and Mason would give us enough fire power up-front.
Knowing Ole, I don't think he has the balls to bring Donny and drop Bruno. We will continue to play 4231 and he will be sacked eventually
Right on. I'm one of those. Ole's not gonna solve this. He and his coaching staff have proven themselves to be incompetent.Even those of us who would love Ole to succeed can see this.
There's only so much going round the team saying Ronaldo is the problem, Bruno is, the defence is etc, Sancho is.
These are some top class players here. They can't all be the problem.
100% agreed. We are missing structure and a game plan, no matter what formation, which is imo mainly down to the team lacking balance, the right side is still pretty much a lame duck attacking wise and the double pivot in midfield just simply doesn't work, no matter the pairing.Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
We can't drop Bruno, that would be insane. But I think you're right that there is clearly now a balance issue in the team. For a long while we had a lot of success playing both Matic/Pogba and McFred in the central pivot, but it is evident that simply isn't working. Maybe having Ronaldo up there rather than Cavani or Martial has a systemic impact that has tipped the balance, maybe teams have just figured out how to deal effectively with our midfield, but whatever it is, it's not working. Some sort of major adjustment has to come.If he sticks to this formation then he”ll be gone by December.With Cristiano in the team we can’t press from the front….We need a lot of players to put in an extra shift to make up for Cristianos lack of running.We have to play a conventional 4-3-3….Matic in front of the back four,Mctominay as a RCM and Pogba as a LCM….Play Cristiano/Cavani up top….Greenwood on the right and Rashford/Sancho on the left.
A conventional 4-3-3 will give us more balance and solidity.Obviously this would mean dropping Bruno(atleast for the big games),but hey,the team is far more important than any one individual.It’s no coincidence that our record in the big games has been poor ever since Bruno joined the club(even though he has been terrific against the lesser teams).So if I was Ole,I would drop Bruno and play a 4-3-3 against the better teams.We can play Bruno in a 4-2-3-1 against the lesser teams,but not against the better teams…..
I don't think Matic is that though. At this point, what he provides is primarily good forward passing. He can't control the game defensively, certainly not as a lone player at the back.I said this after the draw with Everton. 4-3-3 is the way forward.
Bruno - Matic - DVB
Bruno players deeper than usual but he's still the more attacking CM. He can press well too which helps. Matic is our only true DM so has to start and Donny can provide the legs.
I saw a post a couple of weeks ago that said it is not down to coaching that we're misplacing 10 yard passes, it is the player's fault. It is absolutely down to coaching, down to the standards we set. Hargreaves said after the Everton game if it were Sir Alex in charge Fred wouldn't play for a month after the mistakes he made.We could play 5-5-5, would not matter as long as we dont put in the work on the field.
Lazy, arrogant, casual, greedy, pedestrian. Those are the words that come to mind after seeing us this season. I wish it was as simple as a formation change, but it runs much deeper than that
The issue we have is ideological, Ole is at the extreme end in the ideological difference between possession play and direct vertical play. We don't have the right mix between control and the need to attack at every instance. Thus we don't value players who excel at this aspect of the game, Ole wouldn't have time for Carrick for example.100% agreed. We are missing structure and a game plan, no matter what formation, which is imo mainly down to the team lacking balance, the right side is still pretty much a lame duck attacking wise and the double pivot in midfield just simply doesn't work, no matter the pairing.
Of course. When things go wrong the best move is to drop your best player. That should sort everything out. It's worked really well for Barca since they got rid of that albatross around their neck Messi.If he sticks to this formation then he”ll be gone by December.With Cristiano in the team we can’t press from the front….We need a lot of players to put in an extra shift to make up for Cristianos lack of running.We have to play a conventional 4-3-3….Matic in front of the back four,Mctominay as a RCM and Pogba as a LCM….Play Cristiano/Cavani up top….Greenwood on the right and Rashford/Sancho on the left.
A conventional 4-3-3 will give us more balance and solidity.Obviously this would mean dropping Bruno(atleast for the big games),but hey,the team is far more important than any one individual.It’s no coincidence that our record in the big games has been poor ever since Bruno joined the club(even though he has been terrific against the lesser teams).So if I was Ole,I would drop Bruno and play a 4-3-3 against the better teams.We can play Bruno in a 4-2-3-1 against the lesser teams,but not against the better teams…..
It's very possible. Fred and McTominay are the ideal midfield 2 for this tougher run of games.Have a feeling we’ll beat Liverpool with a 4231. Ole Gunnar Moments at its finest.
This is actually my fear. He has the perfect run of fixtures to implement a counter attacking setup and has Rashford back as well. Can see us getting results against the bigger sides and the narrative around “trusting the process” gaining traction again....when in fact it is as it always has been...Ole can set a team up well to play in the counter...nothing more...Have a feeling we’ll beat Liverpool with a 4231. Ole Gunnar Moments at its finest.