If our first central pair is awful; name PL pair who is better then

OverratedOpinion

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Maguire is a good defender, Lindelof is a solid defender and they have now formed something like a partnership.

In modern day football that is better than most and absolutely fine. City have had a lot of compliments on their partnership this season but Maguire has been far better than both Dias and Stones statistically. Just shows how low the level of centre backs is these days.
 

golden_blunder

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There are some high potential cbs coming up, especially French ones it seems. Whilst they may not get replaced now it’s only a matter of time. I can’t see them having a career at United as long as Rio and Vidic.

as for who I’d replace - I’d replace lindelof with a wheelie bin:)
 

TwoSheds

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Dias and Laporte, Van Dijk and someone with knees, Thiago Silva and Zouma. Pretty much just them. There's a lot of good CBs around though who are only marginally worse, just not really many great ones.
 

Cast5

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The Leicester CBs are ridiculously overrated on here. I can only assume most don't really watch them play often.
This is true, there’s absolutely no way that Fofana and Evans are better than Maguire and Lindelof, I’ve watched a lot of Leicester and I just don’t understand how anyone can come up with that conclusion. :lol:

The people who say this stuff are the same people who call Rashford shit and frustrating but are desperate for us to sign Traore :confused:
 

Hammondo

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Difficult to compare defenders when they are affected by the fullbacks and midfielders so much. We have very good fullbacks and 2 midfielders shielding the defence.

It's a faiy easy situation for them.
 

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I hear so many people who have been brainwashed by Goldbridge say "We play McFred to protect that centre back pairing". And that is typically followed with "we need one player who can do the job of both midfielder" and that usually leads to a discussion about Declan Rice being that guy. Then throw in "Maguire and Lindelof are too slow' and we have the full trifecta of Goldbridges' agenda brainwashed into the mind of the weak...ugh

Here's the thing....these same people will usually claim Bailly is our best central defender but Ole doesn't trust him because he's injury prone. No doubt he is injury prone, but I don't think that's why Ole doesn't trust him. Positionally Lindelof and maguire are just better. Bailly is an exciting player. He will throw his body at just about anything and makes some big tackles. The thing is, while Bailly is quick to react and throw his body on the line, Magure and Lindelof are already in that position.

"But Maguire and Lindelof are too slow"....ugh....speed is soooo overrated as a central defender, especially in todays game where strikers are typically target men, not speed merchants. The speed merchants are on the wings, and that's our FB's guy to mark. Slow FB's would definitely be a huge problem. I can also count on one hand the amount of times that speed (or lack there of) has cost us a goal. And before anyone says "Tottenham last year", that wasn't caused because of speed. It was caused because Maguire got caught flat footed. A mistake that rarely happens with him (and De Gea should have saved anyways).

But i get it. People want us to play like City (I just threw up a little). And they say "we sit too deep with Maguire and Lindelof but play higher up the pitch with Bailly or Tuanzebe"...For this I call BS. We don't play any higher or lower. Magure and Lindelof are constantly in our opponents half with a good 60 yards between them and our goal. So how much higher do you want them to play? Again, more of Goldbridge's brainwashing.

The other thing is, people seem to think that if we got Declan Rice all of a sudden we'd be playing a 4-3-3 instead of a 4-2-3-1. Questiion? What formation do West Ham play? That's right, a 4-2-3-1 with Soucek along side Rice.

But let's pretend for a second that Rice came in the summer and Ole did switch to a 4-3-3. What does he now do with Bruno? Hate to break it to you folks, but Bruno is NOT a #8. He is a #10. Perhaps he can be taught to be a little more disciplined, but as it is now, he's basically in a free role. that's why we see him chasing down central defenders. You can't have a #8 doing that. it would put everyone out of position. So if we are now playing that 4-3-3 I guess Bruno plays on the wing?

Bottom line is that while I would like an upgrade on Lindelof, their partnership is actually pretty damn good. look at our games vs the big 6 this year. We have allowed 2 goals against with maguire/lindelof partnership and that includes shutting down the best offense in the league not once, but twice. But what about the 6-1 loss to Tottenham you ask? You better check to see who Maguire's partner was for that one...
 

Cast5

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I hear so many people who have been brainwashed by Goldbridge say "We play McFred to protect that centre back pairing". And that is typically followed with "we need one player who can do the job of both midfielder" and that usually leads to a discussion about Declan Rice being that guy. Then throw in "Maguire and Lindelof are too slow' and we have the full trifecta of Goldbridges' agenda brainwashed into the mind of the weak...ugh

Here's the thing....these same people will usually claim Bailly is our best central defender but Ole doesn't trust him because he's injury prone. No doubt he is injury prone, but I don't think that's why Ole doesn't trust him. Positionally Lindelof and maguire are just better. Bailly is an exciting player. He will throw his body at just about anything and makes some big tackles. The thing is, while Bailly is quick to react and throw his body on the line, Magure and Lindelof are already in that position.

"But Maguire and Lindelof are too slow"....ugh....speed is soooo overrated as a central defender, especially in todays game where strikers are typically target men, not speed merchants. The speed merchants are on the wings, and that's our FB's guy to mark. Slow FB's would definitely be a huge problem. I can also count on one hand the amount of times that speed (or lack there of) has cost us a goal. And before anyone says "Tottenham last year", that wasn't caused because of speed. It was caused because Maguire got caught flat footed. A mistake that rarely happens with him (and De Gea should have saved anyways).

But i get it. People want us to play like City (I just threw up a little). And they say "we sit too deep with Maguire and Lindelof but play higher up the pitch with Bailly or Tuanzebe"...For this I call BS. We don't play any higher or lower. Magure and Lindelof are constantly in our opponents half with a good 60 yards between them and our goal. So how much higher do you want them to play? Again, more of Goldbridge's brainwashing.

The other thing is, people seem to think that if we got Declan Rice all of a sudden we'd be playing a 4-3-3 instead of a 4-2-3-1. Questiion? What formation do West Ham play? That's right, a 4-2-3-1 with Soucek along side Rice.

But let's pretend for a second that Rice came in the summer and Ole did switch to a 4-3-3. What does he now do with Bruno? Hate to break it to you folks, but Bruno is NOT a #8. He is a #10. Perhaps he can be taught to be a little more disciplined, but as it is now, he's basically in a free role. that's why we see him chasing down central defenders. You can't have a #8 doing that. it would put everyone out of position. So if we are now playing that 4-3-3 I guess Bruno plays on the wing?

Bottom line is that while I would like an upgrade on Lindelof, their partnership is actually pretty damn good. look at our games vs the big 6 this year. We have allowed 2 goals against with maguire/lindelof partnership and that includes shutting down the best offense in the league not once, but twice. But what about the 6-1 loss to Tottenham you ask? You better check to see who Maguire's partner was for that one...
Spot on with everything you said. Goldbridge has some of the worst opinions going, why people keep repeating the absolute shite he comes out with I’ll never know.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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I think they are fine, they did well especially in the past few months, Shaw & AWB are solid defensively and Shaw also contributes very well offensively, so the whole backline is very good at this moment, we lack in attack more than we lack in defense, McFred partnership is alright and helps us dominate the midfield but they both lack that creativity edge.
 

r3idy

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I agree they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Maguire gets slated for his price tag and comparison with VVD but he's a good CB.

In terms of a partnership I would say the following are better
VVD + Matip/Gomez
Dias + Stones/Laporte
Fofana + Evans/Soyuncu
Silva + Rudiger/Azpi
Mate you are saying the above 1 + 2 are better than Maguire and Lindelof. Come on, level playing field and all. Also Get out with Matip and Gomez, both at best bang average.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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I hear so many people who have been brainwashed by Goldbridge say "We play McFred to protect that centre back pairing". And that is typically followed with "we need one player who can do the job of both midfielder" and that usually leads to a discussion about Declan Rice being that guy. Then throw in "Maguire and Lindelof are too slow' and we have the full trifecta of Goldbridges' agenda brainwashed into the mind of the weak...ugh

Here's the thing....these same people will usually claim Bailly is our best central defender but Ole doesn't trust him because he's injury prone. No doubt he is injury prone, but I don't think that's why Ole doesn't trust him. Positionally Lindelof and maguire are just better. Bailly is an exciting player. He will throw his body at just about anything and makes some big tackles. The thing is, while Bailly is quick to react and throw his body on the line, Magure and Lindelof are already in that position.

"But Maguire and Lindelof are too slow"....ugh....speed is soooo overrated as a central defender, especially in todays game where strikers are typically target men, not speed merchants. The speed merchants are on the wings, and that's our FB's guy to mark. Slow FB's would definitely be a huge problem. I can also count on one hand the amount of times that speed (or lack there of) has cost us a goal. And before anyone says "Tottenham last year", that wasn't caused because of speed. It was caused because Maguire got caught flat footed. A mistake that rarely happens with him (and De Gea should have saved anyways).

But i get it. People want us to play like City (I just threw up a little). And they say "we sit too deep with Maguire and Lindelof but play higher up the pitch with Bailly or Tuanzebe"...For this I call BS. We don't play any higher or lower. Magure and Lindelof are constantly in our opponents half with a good 60 yards between them and our goal. So how much higher do you want them to play? Again, more of Goldbridge's brainwashing.

The other thing is, people seem to think that if we got Declan Rice all of a sudden we'd be playing a 4-3-3 instead of a 4-2-3-1. Questiion? What formation do West Ham play? That's right, a 4-2-3-1 with Soucek along side Rice.

But let's pretend for a second that Rice came in the summer and Ole did switch to a 4-3-3. What does he now do with Bruno? Hate to break it to you folks, but Bruno is NOT a #8. He is a #10. Perhaps he can be taught to be a little more disciplined, but as it is now, he's basically in a free role. that's why we see him chasing down central defenders. You can't have a #8 doing that. it would put everyone out of position. So if we are now playing that 4-3-3 I guess Bruno plays on the wing?

Bottom line is that while I would like an upgrade on Lindelof, their partnership is actually pretty damn good. look at our games vs the big 6 this year. We have allowed 2 goals against with maguire/lindelof partnership and that includes shutting down the best offense in the league not once, but twice. But what about the 6-1 loss to Tottenham you ask? You better check to see who Maguire's partner was for that one...
I agree with this.

Dias & Stones aren't known for their pace or speed, and they are both doing very well this season.

I am actually quite happy this season with Maguire & Lindelöf.
 

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Yes, but winning titles or CL has major elements of luck, tactics and in-game management involved. I think our manager limits us in some of those areas.

To put it another way, I can see us winning titles with Pep/Klopp in charge of this team give or take some small changes.
Pep needs 400mill in the defence. Klopp? Our first 11 is not at the level of peak Liverpool.
 

mazhar13

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I hear so many people who have been brainwashed by Goldbridge say "We play McFred to protect that centre back pairing". And that is typically followed with "we need one player who can do the job of both midfielder" and that usually leads to a discussion about Declan Rice being that guy. Then throw in "Maguire and Lindelof are too slow' and we have the full trifecta of Goldbridges' agenda brainwashed into the mind of the weak...ugh
Is that it? No wonder I read so many similar views all across the Internet (not just the Caf). :lol:

It's kind of unfortunate because this squad's problems are more often than not misdiagnosed whilst other teams' weaknesses and issues are glossed over. Regarding our back line, Both Lindelöf and Maguire look like they trust each other more, but both still seem to play somewhat within themselves. Maguire still has moments where he tends to overcompensate instead of trusting his teammates, and Lindelöf has moments where he hesitates with regards to aerial challenges. Despite that, they've trusted each other more and have looked better as a partnership than at any other time.

At this stage, in terms of partnerships, I'd probably put Stones + Dias above them. Across Europe, I'd put Marquinhos + Kimpembe above them as well. That's it, really. Other teams make up for their defenders' weaknesses via their overall defensive setup (better pressing and defending from attacking players, more bodies in their own third), whilst we take a different approach to those teams.
 

RedDevilzFox

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Pep needs 400mill in the defence. Klopp? Our first 11 is not at the level of peak Liverpool.
Our first eleven is definitely at the level of peak Liverpool. The difference is their manager, lets not kid ourselves.

Also, what is this fascination about spending? Has everyone forgotten how fergie broke british transfer records again and again?
 
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Lindelof and Harry are so criticized here. As a pair and as individuals (i don't deny, i slated Harry often too). But when you look closely, who have better defensive duo? For which duo you would trade our duo? Not one of them, i am talking two for two trade.

For me only Dias and Laporte (not Stones) are better. Other central pairs are not even close to our guys.
That doesn’t make sense. They’ve barely played together, and Pep literally chooses to play Stones. If they aren’t even the best centre back pair at their own club, how can they be the best in the league?

van Dijk & Gomez are probably the best pairing in the league, although granted it’s been a while.
 

Andycoleno9

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That doesn’t make sense. They’ve barely played together, and Pep literally chooses to play Stones. If they aren’t even the best centre back pair at their own club, how can they be the best in the league?

van Dijk & Gomez are probably the best pairing in the league, although granted it’s been a while.
You are falling in famous "Jones" trap with Gomez. More the player is out, he is better and better. I respect opinion but Gomez is bang average defender. I would not swap him even with Smalling
 
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Maguire is a good defender, Lindelof is a solid defender and they have now formed something like a partnership.

In modern day football that is better than most and absolutely fine. City have had a lot of compliments on their partnership this season but Maguire has been far better than both Dias and Stones statistically. Just shows how low the level of centre backs is these days.
They are terrible pair period and pru defensive statistic and us having to play 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of them is ample proof. . The amazing thing is people often conflate being incompatible with both being poor individually. Which they most definitely are not.
 

tomaldinho1

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I agree they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Maguire gets slated for his price tag and comparison with VVD but he's a good CB.

In terms of a partnership I would say the following are better
VVD + Matip/Gomez
Dias + Stones/Laporte
Fofana + Evans/Soyuncu
Silva + Rudiger/Azpi
Pretty much this. I think Chelsea's 2 best are weaker than our two best individually though. I don't think Lindelof gets into any of those teams, Maguire would start at Chelsea and Leicester.

McFred, AWB and Henderson coming in alleviate a lot of Maglof's (see what I did there) issues but it is a very immobile CB pairing for a team that wants to press and play a high line.
 

sparx99

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One thing worth remembering is Lindelof is 26. He’s only just coming into his peak years as centre back. Van Dijk was playing for Southampton at the same age. That’s not to say he’ll become that good obviously but it does show you centre backs peak later.
 

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The Leicester CBs are ridiculously overrated on here. I can only assume most don't really watch them play often.
Thank you. The bar is just so different for a United defender, and especially on here where of course most watch United week-in week-out and just highlights of others. There's not a CB pair in the league who would survive the caf's 'one defensive error leading to a goal and you'll never be good enough' test. Including Stones and Dias, both of whom have at least one really egregious feckup this season despite being generally very good.
 

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Thank you. The bar is just so different for a United defender, and especially on here where of course most watch United week-in week-out and just highlights of others. There's not a CB pair in the league who would survive the caf's 'one defensive error leading to a goal and you'll never be good enough' test. Including Stones and Dias, both of whom have at least one really egregious feckup this season despite being generally very good.
The media don't help one bit with their narratives. They praise centre backs from many other teams and then turn around to unnecessarily play down our centre backs. Any time our defenders do a good job, the media highlight the fact that our team had to deal with an attack. Much of it probably has to do with City and how they're presented as some dominant, flawless team.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Spot on with everything you said. Goldbridge has some of the worst opinions going, why people keep repeating the absolute shite he comes out with I’ll never know.
They repeat it because they are weak minded. What Goldbridge does is basic brain washing technique. He just repeats the same things over and over and over and over again. And when he does it enough times, eventually his agenda gets through to the masses and his opinions become their opinions...
 

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WHy again it has to be pair of them? Harry Maguire is one of the best if not the best CB in the league right now when VVD is out, Lindelof is just an average palyer lucky enough to be starting game after game next to Maguire since he´s the only Cb who can stay fit apart form Maguire. We will see a serious difference in quality if we bring in another more dominant and complementary Cb to HM.

So the answer would be half the Premier league CBs to replace Lindelof. There would be at least dozen Cbs with overall better quality than him and a lot of them would also fit much better with Maguire..

Our situation is only summed up when half crocked Bailly after half year out from football comes back to the team next to Maguireand our defence looks at least half level up more solid and not nervous with every ball to the box through Lindelof to defend. If we don´t upgrade Lindelof we will be still fighting for top4, becaus ehe´s a palyer who again in total cost us so many pointas this season because he switches off too often or simply gets beaten..
 

noodlehair

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Maguire's an odd one. I think he's been pretty good if you take out the first couple of months of the season, and last year was pretty good if you took out basically the whole first half of the season. Just not sure why it takes him so long to get going, and when he's bad he really is bad.

Lindelof just isn't good enough for me. He has good qualities but he's not strong/physical enough, not good 1 v 1 and teams who have the ability to always target him, and it usually pays off. If we're serious about contending for a PL title we can't have someone in our team who other teams can deliberately pick on because they know it'll get them a goal or two. He does have games wher he looks very good but it's when the opposition suits him. What we need is someone who's just good all round. Or failing that someone who can play in Lindelof's place against more physical forwards...and regardless of that he needs to fecking learn how to defend crosses that come into his area. Him and Bissaka are an absolute joke anytime there's a ball from the left to the far post.

There aren't that many great centrebacks around or even very good ones though. I struggle to think of someone suitable we could get where the price tag would be realistic and they'd have any reason to want to join us.
 

Leftback99

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Yeah I don’t think the main issues people have are that they aren’t “good”. More so that they aren’t at a level that will put us at the top of either the league or Europe, which I think is a very agreeable statement.
So basically they aren't as good as Stones and Dias? Which is debatable.
 

criticalanalysis

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Between the choice of one class centre back or one class base midfielder:

Maguire + Marquinhos + Fred at the base in a midfield three of Pogba and Bruno
Maguire + Lindelof + Fabinho at the base in a midfield three of Pogba and Bruno
Lindelof + Marquinhos + Fred at the base in a midfield three of Pogba and Bruno

Which is the strongest option?

All three are compromises but I'd opt for the first, which is why I've always consistently (harshly or not) implied that Lindelof is the weakest defensive link in our team and the one I expect more from.
 

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Our first eleven is definitely at the level of peak Liverpool. The difference is their manager, lets not kid ourselves.

Also, what is this fascination about spending? Has everyone forgotten how fergie broke british transfer records again and again?
No it isn't. None of our forwards could replace theirs in their peak season. Their FBs were better at peak. You delusional. None of our players have EVER performed at that level. Pogba and Bruno only ones who might secure a place.
 

croadyman

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I see Chelsea in a CL semi final.. So yes?
We have to stop pretending we need this elite quality to compete at the top level
We really dont.
Does help that Chelsea also have a better centre midfield than us
 

Lebo

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Does help that Chelsea also have a better centre midfield than us
I don’t think so. Sure Kante for Fred but that’s about it. No one for Pogba, Fernandez or McT. Unless you rate Kovacic, Jorginho and Ziyech that high
 

devilish

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United had invested ridiculous money in defence. Yet we still rely on McT-Fred to cover their arse and they still keep on being caught with their pants down. Lindelof-Maguire aren't shit. They are decent CBs. However they are nowhere near to WC.
 

gerdm07

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United had invested ridiculous money in defence. Yet we still rely on McT-Fred to cover their arse and they still keep on being caught with their pants down. Lindelof-Maguire aren't shit. They are decent CBs. However they are nowhere near to WC.
Ha ha. Maguire could walk on almost any team in the world and start. In fact, I can only think of Man City that he wouldn't start and that's mainly because Pep would be very reluctant to break up Dias and Stones. RM - Yes. Barca - Yes. PSG - Probably. Liverpool - Yes. LC - Yes.

Please tell me all the teams that Maguire would not start.
 

devilish

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Ha ha. Maguire could walk on almost any team in the world and start. In fact, I can only think of Man City that he wouldn't start and that's mainly because Pep would be very reluctant to break up Dias and Stones. RM - Yes. Barca - Yes. PSG - Probably. Liverpool - Yes. LC - Yes.

Please tell me all the teams that Maguire would not start.
There's no doubt that there's very few top CBs around however I very much doubt that there would be any club in the world willing to spend 80m on Maguire. The reason being that while he's a decent CB he's lack of pace, positioning and leadership prevents him to ever be WC. I dare to say that he's not even as good as prime Pally let alone Stam, Rio or even Vidic. United's defence (and I stress on the collective here) is extremely expensive and quite frankly its still error prone. Which is why we're forced to play with 2 DMs. Even in such circumstances we still manage to let a very ordinary Roma with a 90 year old Dzeko upfront score 2 goals against us.
 
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gerdm07

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There's no doubt that there's very few top CBs around however I very much doubt that there would be any club in the world willing to spend 80m on Maguire. The reason being that while he's a decent CB he's lack of pace, positioning and leadership prevents him to ever be WC. I dare to say that he's not even as good as prime Pally let alone Stam, Rio or even Vidic. United's defence (and I stress on the collective here) is extremely expensive and quite frankly its still error prone. Which is why we're forced to play with 2 DMs. Even in such circumstances we still manage to let a very ordinary Roma with a 90 year old Dzeko upfront score 2 goals against us.
I didn't say someone would pay 80m, I said he would start for almost any team in the world. I'm not sure why you are comparing him to the past.

If you consistently start for your club that is 2nd in the most competitive league in the world and consistently start for your country that is ranked 7th in the world, are you not world class?
 

devilish

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I didn't say someone would pay 80m, I said he would start for almost any team in the world. I'm not sure why you are comparing him to the past.

If you consistently start for your club that is 2nd in the most competitive league in the world and consistently start for your country that is ranked 7th in the world, are you not world class?
Well you commented on my post first and not viceversa. Therefore you should argue with what I said unless of course you agree with me

Would Maguire play in most sides? I don't know that. First of all I don't follow as much football as I used to be. Secondly different clubs have different tactics. We certainly do our very best to protect our very expensive defence by playing McT, Fred and occasionally James as well.

Regarding our current position that means nothing. Liverpool were EPL champions last year and now they are in a sorry state. The best team I've ever saw was Milan of the late 80s early 90s. Rossi was GK at the time and his stats were tremendous. However every one knew why and it wasn't cause he was WC

I am more comfortable comparing Maguire with former united players who had worn his same shoes after all. Honestly I'd rather have Pally or even prime Johnsen to him let alone the true WC CBs we had (Stam, Rio and Vidic)
 

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They are terrible pair period and pru defensive statistic and us having to play 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of them is ample proof. . The amazing thing is people often conflate being incompatible with both being poor individually. Which they most definitely are not.
Weird how this complete myth has taken hold in the heads of some.
 
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Weird how this complete myth has taken hold in the heads of some.
the weird myth rather is that their protection from midfield is inadequate. It should be fairly obvious to anyone who has watched football for a long time that any team that needs to operate with 2 holding players vs tough opponents has a problem in center defence. Not in midfield
 

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We forget how poor our midfield and our RB is. Even Shaw has a mistake in him now and then.
Lindelof has played on the left side before so there must be a reason why Maguire plays on the left with Shaw as the left back.
AWB is very weak in his heading and never sprints back to cover.
 

RedDevil@84

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Jun 5, 2014
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14,216
Put an actual, proper CDM in front of them and they would be work pretty well. Maguire is never going to justify his 80M price. So stop expecting him to.

And people need to stop expecting both of them to make zero mistakes. Not going to happen.
 

Foxbatt

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Oct 21, 2013
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9,744
the weird myth rather is that their protection from midfield is inadequate. It should be fairly obvious to anyone who has watched football for a long time that any team that needs to operate with 2 holding players vs tough opponents has a problem in center defence. Not in midfield
Not at all. It's a myth. CBs go one v one with the two forwards. If the CBs have to deal with the two forwards plus the opposing midfield then it's the problem of our midfield.
Our CBs have dealt fairly well when they have to deal with the opposition forwards only.