Prime Fergie would love that kind of challenge. Also depending on who could be buy but he would be competing for sure.
If SAF was still the gaffer, would he be competing with Pep/Klopp?
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He'd definitely be competing, no question, assuming we're talking a younger Fergie with the energy and motivation to learn and adapt.
I believe he got out at the right time. He would not be as good as this City team. He’s nowhere near as tactically advanced as Pep in my opinion. We’d be better than we are now though, but football has changed massively.
I genuinely believed Fergie would have gone head on for the tactical fouls tactics that both Klopp and Guardiola use. Fergie would have highlighted I time and time again to the point where refs could no longer ignore it. That would mean that Klopp and Guardiola would be forced to change their tactics. He was a master at manipulating, and he would be right as well. If refs were to follow the rules, both Liverpool and City would struggle as they would receive so many early yellows.
His best quality was always his adaptability. He slacked a bit at the end and failed to fully adapt to post-Barcelona football, but he would've done it by now. His team would look a lot like Klopp's, I'd imagine. Pep would still be the favourite to win it every year, but Fergie would've been close to him — granted, in the hypothetical when he was in his best health and still hungry for the success.
With this current squad, not a chance, probably top 4.
However SAF would never have a squad of such mentally weak players. Since he retired we have spent £650 million if Fergie stayed on from 2013 to now and had spent £650 million then no doubt we would be challenging city and Liverpool.
Imagine if we had spent this £650 mill from 09-13 we would have most likely won 5 titles in a row plus an extra champions league or 2.
However SAF would never have a squad of such mentally weak players. Since he retired we have spent £650 million if Fergie stayed on from 2013 to now and had spent £650 million then no doubt we would be challenging city and Liverpool.
Imagine if we had spent this £650 mill from 09-13 we would have most likely won 5 titles in a row plus an extra champions league or 2.
SAF may now look old fashioned tactically (which is actually unfair as who knows what modern techniques he may have adopted if he was born 20+ years later) but he was an absolute master at getting the very best out of his squad. Today's united squad would play far, far better than they have this season if SAF was in charge
As an aside, if SAF was in charge now, there would be no stories like the one today suggesting Woodward wants to keep Pogba (presumably for commercial reasons) whilst OGS wants him gone - football/SAF would surely win ?
As an aside, if SAF was in charge now, there would be no stories like the one today suggesting Woodward wants to keep Pogba (presumably for commercial reasons) whilst OGS wants him gone - football/SAF would surely win ?
Even if SAF himself was unable to 'tactically compete' with Pep or Klopp - his ability to spot a player in his prime, his ability to man manage players, his competitiveness would ensure he was competitive and he could always just delegate to someone he considered to be tactically on a par with those guys or well versed in the modern game to ensure he's in the hunt for trophies.
Whenever you watch old United games, the dynamism and the quality of the football is light years ahead of the current United side, not to mention the individual quality we had in spades.
We would definitely be top 3 and potential EPL winners IMO.
Fergie from 09-12 would struggle.
Whenever you watch old United games, the dynamism and the quality of the football is light years ahead of the current United side, not to mention the individual quality we had in spades.
We would definitely be top 3 and potential EPL winners IMO.
Fergie from 09-12 would struggle.
A younger SAF would absolutely relish the challenge and yes not only would he compete but he would eventually overcome them just as he did with all the challenges that came his way throughout his career starting with the challenge of breaking the old firm domination in Scotland. He would thrive on it.
He got out at the right time but we'd have a far better squad.
United 07-09 had an incredible squad featuring some of the best defenders, attackers and midfielders in the world. The midtable teams at the time were quite far from the quality of that squad.
In the CL final in 2009 Fergie had the likes of Scholes, Tevez, Berbatov and Nani on the bench. Not Origi, Sturridge, Gabriel Jesus, Foden.
How many Liverpool and City players would be firm starters for United 08? 3-4 at most.
This.
Honestly, I don't think he did. He never saw off Mourinho. It was only Mourinho's typical third season meltdown that got him sacked a couple months in. In the previous two seasons, Mourinho's Chelsea was at a different level.
If you're talking about Guardiola himself, I haven't seen much people talk about this but I believe Pep is on something. He acts like he's on cocaine or something in some of those press conferences.
If you're talking about the players, I'm not sure about this. It just seems like good coaching.
The pull for players on the football side would still be there, not just money, and no way would have let Liverpool get VVD, so don't think they would be the force they are now without him
Theres lots of players I could say we would have bought instead of joining City or Liverpool, but he's the one I am 100% confident SAF would have done everything to sign
Theres lots of players I could say we would have bought instead of joining City or Liverpool, but he's the one I am 100% confident SAF would have done everything to sign
If Sir Alex (in his prime) was still at United and had been given the money we have spent since his departure Klopp and Guardiola would've been sacked by their respective clubs due to the cut-throat nature of the game.
Yea probably winning the league by 12 or so points was a good way to finish but I think based on the OP he would definitely have been capable of rebuilding another title winning team. To be completely honest I dont know why it even requires a thread, the answer is so glaringly obvious... Would the greatest manager of all time be able to compete with Pep / Klopp?
We would be top 3 fighting for the title, but I do not think we would win the title often.
I think you need history lesson my friend, Mourinho left Chelsea in his fourth season first time round. His 3rd season at Chelsea was still very good, they only lost 3 games and only conceded 24 goals all season. We were better though, we came out of the blocks flying and never looked back, I think Mourinho wasn’t used to chasing. Definitely Fergie got the better of him, despite the difference in money spent.
Yes, he wouldn’t of wasted the big £££ that others have.
Ferguson would of signed some of the best players in the league and not wasted £ on some of the shite we have.
De Gea would still be in goals, although wouldn’t be surprised if Ferguson sold him when he wanted out.
We’d of signed Alderweireld after his Southampton loan, or maybe VvD.
Shaw wouldn’t of lasted unless he improved his attitude.
He’d of got Kane when he broke through at Spurs. They weren’t what they are now, and would of sold him.
I think Ronaldo would of ended up back here too.
He’d of loved Robertson and Maguire from Hull as well.
Really hard to guess, but I’ll hazard something along these lines
Ferguson would of signed some of the best players in the league and not wasted £ on some of the shite we have.
De Gea would still be in goals, although wouldn’t be surprised if Ferguson sold him when he wanted out.
We’d of signed Alderweireld after his Southampton loan, or maybe VvD.
Shaw wouldn’t of lasted unless he improved his attitude.
He’d of got Kane when he broke through at Spurs. They weren’t what they are now, and would of sold him.
I think Ronaldo would of ended up back here too.
He’d of loved Robertson and Maguire from Hull as well.
Really hard to guess, but I’ll hazard something along these lines
De Gea
Rafael - VvD - Alderweireld - Robertson
McTominay - Kante - Herrera
Rashford - Kane - Ronaldo
Rafael - VvD - Alderweireld - Robertson
McTominay - Kante - Herrera
Rashford - Kane - Ronaldo
SAF knew how to inspire players. Players would die for him on the pitch. All those comebacks wern't just because of tactics alone.
SAF's team would have been great in this season. If not in the league then atleast in the knockout competitions.
SAF's team would have been great in this season. If not in the league then atleast in the knockout competitions.
I wish I hadn’t read this thread. It’s making me miss him. 
Good post. Mike Phelan alluded to what you're saying in 2013.
‘With the way things have gone, my first thoughts are to be the boss, yeah. It’s the progression for me now.
'That’s what I’ve been doing for the last five years, albeit with the title of assistant boss,’ Phelan said.
‘He [Ferguson] was the head of the establishment, there’s no doubt about it and rightly so. He didn’t get to where he’s got through not being a big decision maker but he’ll be the first to admit that a lot of people played their part in that.
'We all were undercover in that respect. We weren’t the face of what was going on but that was our job. There’s no problem with that from my point of view.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...r-Alex-Fergusons-years-Manchester-United.html
I actually think its tougher now. This season has been a two horse race but we don't have a top four anymore, we have a top 6 and all of them are realistic title contenders at the start of every season, thats unprecedented. If City win the title it will be the first time they'll win it back to back. Last season United were second and this season we're out of the CL. Chelsea are back in it after missing out last season and they were only champions a few seasons back. Its real topsy turvy now.
Agree. I think we have way too many posters in this thread underestimating what Fergie was capable of in his prime. Arguably the greatest manager of all time.. and key reason for that is his ability to adapt to various era's. It is only old age which made him lose that capacity to a degree but in his prime, he would have eventually thrived in this attacking era by taking ideas off his opponents and adding his own tweaks.
He'd see through the likes of Rashy too and cut him down to size IMO.
It's a bit tougher now but with SAF you knew he'd get rid of players he didn't think helped Utd or had outgrown their time here: McGrath,Whiteside,Hughes,Ince,Kanchelskis,Keane,Beckham anon...
He didn't believe in having close knit friendships with players if he needed to make a hard decision, he did, It was never personal.
It's funny how the same players absolutely revere him today.
He didn't believe in having close knit friendships with players if he needed to make a hard decision, he did, It was never personal.
It's funny how the same players absolutely revere him today.
Yes, and we would be playing a 4-4-2 with Zaha a main stay on the right wing. And assuming all the transfers we made still happened, we would look like this:
----------------------------De Gea----------------------------
Dalot----------Smalling-----------Lindeloff-----------Shaw
Zaha-----------Herrara----------Pogba-------------Martial
----------------Lukaku------------Rashford----------------
Herrara wouldn't be going anywhere and Pogba would be working his ass off to earn his place in the team. On the big games would would switch to a 4-5-1
-------------------------De Gea------------------------
Dalot---------Smalling---------Lindeloff--------Shaw
Zaha-------Herrara-----Matic----Pogba-------Rashford
-----------------------Lukaku--------------------------
----------------------------De Gea----------------------------
Dalot----------Smalling-----------Lindeloff-----------Shaw
Zaha-----------Herrara----------Pogba-------------Martial
----------------Lukaku------------Rashford----------------
Herrara wouldn't be going anywhere and Pogba would be working his ass off to earn his place in the team. On the big games would would switch to a 4-5-1
-------------------------De Gea------------------------
Dalot---------Smalling---------Lindeloff--------Shaw
Zaha-------Herrara-----Matic----Pogba-------Rashford
-----------------------Lukaku--------------------------
Fergie would—without a fecking doubt.
Because beyond the obvious and uninteresting (in context) things such as tactics and squads, he was a leader! Manager first, coach second. He instilled energy, confidence and belief into the entire club.
Thus, Fergie prioritised the essentials, which can easily get lost in football, especially within the current climate of Football Manager/FIFA/stats driven analytics and perspectives, fanned on by inexperienced and immature incompetence through delusional couch coaches, who think they've got a clue or insight of what brings success in football… and posting neat videos about it on social media.
What reminded me of Fergie's quotes about flesh and blood were actually Mourinho's (I really don't give a shit about what you think of Mourinho, listen to what is accurately said rather than who says it) comments regarding Klopp after Liverpool knocked Barcelona out:
In the grand scheme of things, Barcelona didn't lack in tactics nor quality. It isn't about football, it's about psychology. Fergie was the master of psychology. Impossible to not be with decades of success, and in that I absolutely include his successful managing experience before United, which also too often seems to be forgotten.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: I'm very upset today and I miss having Fergie leading our club. Would've been spectacular to witness these days.
Because beyond the obvious and uninteresting (in context) things such as tactics and squads, he was a leader! Manager first, coach second. He instilled energy, confidence and belief into the entire club.
Thus, Fergie prioritised the essentials, which can easily get lost in football, especially within the current climate of Football Manager/FIFA/stats driven analytics and perspectives, fanned on by inexperienced and immature incompetence through delusional couch coaches, who think they've got a clue or insight of what brings success in football… and posting neat videos about it on social media.
Source: https://bit.ly/3033hTs
Source: https://bit.ly/2Jwr5cm
What reminded me of Fergie's quotes about flesh and blood were actually Mourinho's (I really don't give a shit about what you think of Mourinho, listen to what is accurately said rather than who says it) comments regarding Klopp after Liverpool knocked Barcelona out:
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In the grand scheme of things, Barcelona didn't lack in tactics nor quality. It isn't about football, it's about psychology. Fergie was the master of psychology. Impossible to not be with decades of success, and in that I absolutely include his successful managing experience before United, which also too often seems to be forgotten.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: I'm very upset today and I miss having Fergie leading our club. Would've been spectacular to witness these days.
This is a flimsy argument. A similar thing can be said about Fergie having Ronaldo.
Yeah can be said and will be wrong.
Yes we would be competing. Mainly because the smaller teams would still have that inferiority complex when they come to Old Trafford, and not the fearlessness that we see nowadays. Fergie would have never let Old Trafford become a place where the underdog always believes that they can get something. A big part of our current state in my opinion.
The questions are. Would Fergie have turned Martial/Rashford/Lingard into better players like he did Ronaldo/Rooney circa 2005/2006?
Would Bailly/Lindelof and Shaw have turned into world class defenders like Rio/Vidic and Evra around the same time.
Would he have been better at looking after Zaha/Januzaj so there obvious talents weren’t wasted?
Would Bailly/Lindelof and Shaw have turned into world class defenders like Rio/Vidic and Evra around the same time.
Would he have been better at looking after Zaha/Januzaj so there obvious talents weren’t wasted?
Did you only see Fergie win everything for the 3 years Ronaldo was incredible for us? It's a shame you missed the rest mate.
I believe Fergie would have used players he had a lot better than van Gaal and Mourinho and got players that fit into his team.
Ole has a complete rebuild on his hands now.
But lets not forget Fergie had a big say in Moyes being appointed too.
So the decline started with that.
Ole has a complete rebuild on his hands now.
But lets not forget Fergie had a big say in Moyes being appointed too.
So the decline started with that.
Yes! most adaptable manager I've ever seen and managed to compete with Jose. please note that Liverpool have competed well in 2 competitions only this season. In 2009 SAF won the EPL with an admirable 90 points whilst also winning the Carling Cup, whilst also making the Champions League finals, whilst also reaching the FA Cup Semi's, whilst also winning the FA Community Shield, whilst also winning the Fifa Club World Cup, whilst also losing the Uefa Super Cup. We competed for virtually every trophy and still got a solid points tally
We'd certainly be challenging for the title in most years. Perhaps not this year and last year but we'd still be 3rd at worst. I imagine he'd be getting twice as much out of Young, Jones and Smalling too. 
Look at Liverpool's team yesterday. A lot of those players were regarded as average or shite not so long ago (Shakiri, Wijnaldum, Origi, Matip, Henderson, Milner...) An inspirational manager can coax a lot out of players that an average manager can't.
Look at Liverpool's team yesterday. A lot of those players were regarded as average or shite not so long ago (Shakiri, Wijnaldum, Origi, Matip, Henderson, Milner...) An inspirational manager can coax a lot out of players that an average manager can't.
It's also about work rate. Barca were out run.
He would have won 13-14. No problem
Also 15-16 and 16-17.
Probably struggling vs City 17-18 and 18-19, 2004-06-like.
Also 15-16 and 16-17.
Probably struggling vs City 17-18 and 18-19, 2004-06-like.
If there's one quality Sir Alex possessed it was the wisdom to hire assistants and coaches well versed with modernistic approaches to the game. He was clever enough to delegate work and coaching responsibility to those who would keep us toe-to-toe with all of our competitors regarding tactical advances within the game. He would have re-built, adapted and challenged for a new generation, not because he had all the answers to the modern game, but because he knew the best leaders delegated responsibility to men on the cutting edge of the game in every department.
Actually, I feel that if SAF were still in charge we will be like Ole's honeymoon period in term of style and result. Hence, we will still be challenging.
However, the most likely scenario is that we will be much better than our current state where we would have won a few titles in the last 6 years because SAF signings and man management was much more superior.
However, the most likely scenario is that we will be much better than our current state where we would have won a few titles in the last 6 years because SAF signings and man management was much more superior.
No the decline started when SAF went 5 years without buying a CM, constantly looking for value in an exploding market whilst City brought in Silva, Aguero and Kompany unchallenged. 3 players who a decade later are still greats and better than our options despite everything spent since. If only he could foresee the value in front of him compared to 5+ years down the line.....and the fact he could have planned for our future and saved the managers to come from struggling with our immediate present.
If it was prime 90's / 00's Fergie then he'd have packed Pep back to Spain and Klopp would be in a mental institute by now.
All jokes aside was he EVER more than 7/8 points away from winning the league? he would damn well be right behind them that's for sure.
All jokes aside was he EVER more than 7/8 points away from winning the league? he would damn well be right behind them that's for sure.