In hindsight, was Mourinho a success?

[LoveFootball]

He was no success, but anyone claiming he was worse than Moyes or LVG give your head a wobble.

Can you tell me in what world he was better than LVG? He was paid much more and spent the most, breaking records after records and did no better than his predecessor, sorry finishing 6th with a EL and LC are not enough to justify his wage and money spent. In his 2nd season he came 2nd 20 points behind the leader playing one of the worst football I've ever seen before and we got ambarrassed in the CL going out with the tail between our legs. 3rd season the less I say the better.

He's without contest the worst manager in our history.

They were both awful, like picking between a poke in the eye and a kick in the balls.

If given the choice between the 2, who'll you bring back to be our manager?

 

[Cheesy]

No. He was building well for the first couple of years but ultimately didn't improve us enough for that to outweigh his disastrous third year. With the money he spent anything less than the title (or at least a proper go at it) was always going to be a disappointment. The fact we then slid backwards makes him an outright failure I'd say.

 

[Cheesy]

Can you tell me in what world he was better than LVG? He was paid much more and spent the most, breaking records after records and did no better than his predecessor, sorry finishing 6th with a EL and LC are not enough to justify his wage and money spent. In his 2nd season he came 2nd 20 points behind the leader playing one of the worst football I've ever seen before and we got ambarrassed in the CL going out with the tail between our legs. 3rd season the less I say the better.

He's without contest the worst manager in our history.

If you're looking at spending as being relative to what was the norm then LVG spent a fecking ton himself. Di Maria was a huge signing at the time. Indeed I'm fairly sure (could be wrong though) it was during one of the LVG's years here where we were the biggest spenders in the summer transfer window.

Last year the football was dire, but dire football and 2nd place is quite clearly better than dire football and 5th. Similarly we were obviously shite in the CL last year...but a last 16 showing is still better than what we got under LVG.

I know I say this a lot, but people seem to forget how genuinely terrible we were to watch under LVG in 15-16.

 

[LoveFootball]

If you're looking at spending as being relative to what was the norm then LVG spent a fecking ton himself. Di Maria was a huge signing at the time. Indeed I'm fairly sure (could be wrong though) it was during one of the LVG's years here where we were the biggest spenders in the summer transfer window.

Last year the football was dire, but dire football and 2nd place is quite clearly better than dire football and 5th. Similarly we were obviously shite in the CL last year...but a last 16 showing is still better than what we got under LVG.

I know I say this a lot, but people seem to forget how genuinely terrible we were to watch under LVG in 15-16.

There's no contest that Mourinho spent more than LVG, this isn't even debatable, even the most die hard Mourinho fan can't deny this. In term of spending, nobody comes close to Mourinho and guess what, he wanted more money to spent on garbage players.

And I'm sorry but I didn't enjoy our 2nd place last season and I'd gladly trade it with Liverpool season with their CL run. There's a reason why the most patient fans in the world were ready to part way with him at the end of last season, because despite our league finish, the football and toxic atmosphere didn't worth it. We finished 2nd but had no hope for the future and no one bet on us replicating that season, even Mourinho himself wasn't sure of that and deemed that 2nd place finish as his best accomplishment as a manager; most of our best players were alienated. We fluke our way to that 2nd place, 20 points behind the leader and no trophy is not good, he should have been sacked.

Under LVG we were terrible to watch yes, if football for you is just about scoring goals; but I enjoyed that season more than any of Mourinho's time here; under LVG you could see our style, the way he wanted us to play; he lacked creative players to transform the possession into chances; we also see players making progress : Smalling, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, De Gea, Blind were playing their best football, we had hope for the future.
Mourinho had good personals to help him win games, no style, no tactic, no progress. A waste of time and resources.

 

[Red For Ever]

What is success, most will point to trophies won, in that respect he did OK ( a lot of clubs above us won nothing in the last 2 years )
but its more than that, its about entertaining, enjoyment, success is not just trophies ( sound like a Spurs fan now !!!! )
and in that respect his time with us was a failure.

During his first spell successful at Chelsea, I liked listening to him, but was glad he was not our manager, there were discussions on the Caf, suggesting he would be a good replacement for SAF when he retired.

Maybe my memory is selective, but I agreed with the majority view, that his style, despite being successful at that time, was not something we wanted to see at Old Trafford.

Fast forward, and nothing had changed ( except his style was looking less successful ) and he was considered the best option at that time, after Moyes and LVG it was easy to understand that view.

But really the Mourinho way, was never the way I wanted to see United play, I never wanted him at United, at the time I reluctantly convinced myself he was our best option, but he drained the enjoyment out of watching United, every match i hoped for something different, apart from the odd glimpse it never came.

I am a little bemused by Ole's appointment, loved the man as a player, love what he is saying ( but maybe saying a bit too much ) not sure how its going to go, but I am pretty sure its going to be more fun, and more entertaining than it has been for some time.

I always look forward to a United match, but I am really looking forward to this one tonight.

Maybe not the beginning of a new successful era for United, but I do think I will be back to enjoying watching United again.
And that is a great place to start.

 

[Cheesy]

There's no contest that Mourinho spent more than LVG, this isn't even debatable, even the most die hard Mourinho fan can't deny this. In term of spending, nobody comes close to Mourinho and guess what, he wanted more money to spent on garbage players.

And I'm sorry but I didn't enjoy our 2nd place last season and I'd gladly trade it with Liverpool season with their CL run. There's a reason why the most patient fans in the world were ready to part way with him at the end of last season, because despite our league finish, the football and toxic atmosphere didn't worth it. We finished 2nd but had no hope for the future and no one bet on us replicating that season, even Mourinho himself wasn't sure of that and deemed that 2nd place finish as his best accomplishment as a manager; most of our best players were alienated. We fluke our way to that 2nd place, 20 points behind the leader and no trophy is not good, he should have been sacked.

Under LVG we were terrible to watch yes, if football for you is just about scoring goals; but I enjoyed that season more than any of Mourinho's time here; under LVG you could see our style, the way he wanted us to play; he lacked creative players to transform the possession into chances; we also see players making progress : Smalling, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, De Gea, Blind were playing their best football, we had hope for the future.
Mourinho had good personals to help him win games, no style, no tactic, no progress. A waste of time and resources.

This is a bizarre argument that comes up all the time with LVG. You could see our style, but the problem is our style was...well, shit. Like...I don't get how that's somehow a positive? He had a clear style that didn't work and which didn't produce goals. I could argue that Mourinho had a clear style of shithousery - clearly that wouldn't be a positive thing though because it resulted in awful football.

 

[Kostov]

Can you tell me in what world he was better than LVG? He was paid much more and spent the most, breaking records after records and did no better than his predecessor, sorry finishing 6th with a EL and LC are not enough to justify his wage and money spent. In his 2nd season he came 2nd 20 points behind the leader playing one of the worst football I've ever seen before and we got ambarrassed in the CL going out with the tail between our legs. 3rd season the less I say the better.

He's without contest the worst manager in our history.

In what world he was better than LVG? In what world are you living pal? How about better in winning football matches for starters. Mourinho has he highest win percentage than every manager we've had up till now. What he was paid bothers you, while you fail to mention that Moyes got a 6 year contract who is still running if you open your calendar book.

You mention the money spent, well LVG spent lots of money also, and he bought absolute garbage like Rojo, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Depay, (loaned in) Falcao and an absolute flop in Di Maria, and left us with holes in the team. And what did he achieve exactly? Yeah he won the FA Cup, and finished 4th and 5th. I say your post is pretty much embarrassing and the bias you have against Mourinho.

 

[LoveFootball]

This is a bizarre argument that comes up all the time with LVG. You could see our style, but the problem is our style was...well, shit. Like...I don't get how that's somehow a positive? He had a clear style that didn't work and which didn't produce goals. I could argue that Mourinho had a clear style of shithousery - clearly that wouldn't be a positive thing though because it resulted in awful football.

LVG had a style that didn't work because of lack of creative players; when his style clicked, you got that run of games against Liverpool, City, Tottenham,... and I think most of us enjoyed it. A manager can have his style looks shit if the players aren't good enough; look at the 1st season of Tottenham under Pochetinho, or Pep 1st season at City (even Klopp's Liverpool look like a team of sprinters before he got the right players). Under LVG our pattern of play was clear, but the like of Depay, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Valencia, Darmian, Rooney, Jones let him down and hence that horrible last season.

Under Mourinho we were just a shambles; a group of individuals without any style of play and us fans had to guess what kind of Manchester United we'll see in the next game; we were not even a defensive team, nor a counter attacking team, a team/club without any identity and were buying players without any plan on how to use them. In few words, we were worst than a LVG team.

 

[Cheesy]

LVG had a style that didn't work because of lack of creative players; when his style clicked, you got that run of games against Liverpool, City, Tottenham,... and I think most of us enjoyed it. A manager can have his style looks shit if the players aren't good enough; look at the 1st season of Tottenham under Pochetinho, or Pep 1st season at City (even Klopp's Liverpool look like a team of sprinters before he got the right players). Under LVG our pattern of play was clear, but the like of Depay, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Valencia, Darmian, Rooney, Jones let him down and hence that horrible last season.

Under Mourinho we were just a shambles; a group of individuals without any style of play and us fans had to guess what kind of Manchester United we'll see in the next game; we were not even a defensive team, nor a counter attacking team, a team/club without any identity and were buying players without any plan on how to use them. In few words, we were worst than a LVG team.

Should've spent more wisely on creative players then.

 

[LoveFootball]

In what world he was better than LVG? In what world are you leaving pal? How about better in winning football matches for starters. Mourinho has he highest win percentage than every manager we've had up till now. What he was paid bothers you, while you fail to mention that Moyes got a 6 year contract who is still running if you open your calendar book.

You mention the money spent, well LVG spent lots of money also, and he bought absolute garbage like Rojo, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Depay, (loaned in) Falcao and an absolute flop in Di Maria, and left us with holes in the team. And what did he achieve exactly? Yeah he won the FA Cup, and finished 4th and 5th. I say your post is pretty much embarrassing and the bias you have against Mourinho.

Mourinho won more games than LVG because he had the better players; remove Pogba, Miki and Ibra from that Mourinho 1st season and I bet my money that we struggle to score more than 20 goals and finish bottom of the league; that's the full story of Mourinho's reign, a guy saved by individuals. We finished 20 points behind City last season because of that Lukaku's bad spell around december as Mourinho didn't know how to adapt. Give to LVG the Pogba, ibra and Miki and he'd have won us the league in his last season.

Yes LVG spent money but he didn't break record transfer several times; Mourinho practically signed the best player of the French league (Ibrahimovic), the best player of Italian league (Pogba), the best player of German league (Mkhitaryan) and one of the best young defender of La Liga (Bailly) in addition to LVG's squad and finished 6th, 1 position lower than LVG. If you're talking about the garbage LVG left us with, what about the players the special one left us with? we'll struggle to offload the like of Matic, Lukaku, Fellaini, Sanchez from our books. You're talking about LvG signing when it's his signing that were keeping Mourinho in his job this season (Martial, Rashford, Herrera and Shaw).

Should've spent more wisely on creative players then.

Agree with you here. I think LVG would have worked better with a DOF. He was bad in transfer market.

 

[ZlatMan]

Some ridiculous revisionism right here. LVG spent as much as Mourinho to achieve worse results. Under Mourinho we achieved two trophies, back to back CL qualifications, our highest finish and points tally in a while and built a better squad.

With LVG we barely scarpped 4th place, falling out with just about everybody (including Rooney), couldn't get out of the easiest group we ever had in the Champions League, knocked out by Liverpool in the Europa League and played some of the worse football in living memory. He even got outscored by fecking Sunderland!

Go watch the 15-16 review DVD and tell me if LVG was still better.

 

[LoveFootball]

Some ridiculous revisionism right here. LVG spent as much as Mourinho to achieve worse results. Under Mourinho we achieved two trophies, back to back CL qualifications, our highest finish and points tally in a while and built a better squad.

With LVG we barely scarpped 4th place, falling out with just about everybody (including Rooney), couldn't get out of the easiest group we ever had in the Champions League, knocked out by Liverpool in the Europa League and played some of the worse football in living memory. He even got outscored by fecking Sunderland!

Go watch the 15-16 review DVD and tell me if LVG was still better.

1) LVG didn't spend as much as Mourinho.

2) Under Mourinho (who was payed an insane amount of many) we won an EL and a LC after getting the best French League player (Ibra), best Italian League player (Pogba), best BundesLiga player (Miki) and one of the best La Liga defender (Bailly), in addition of the team that LVG finished 5th with in joint point than 4th, and finished 6th in PL. Last season we finished 2nd, 20 points behind the leader and 4 points better than Liverpool who sacrificed their league form to concentrate on the CL and also because Spurs and Liverpool had a low start to the season. We had the worst stats of the top 6 teams and got lucky our players were clinical and De Gea had a fantastic season (hence him winning player of the season despite Mourinho telling us, a season before, that it was an anomaly for a goalkeeper to be the best player of a team and that would never happen under him).

With LVG we comfortably got 4th in his 1st season and finish with same points than 4th in his 2nd season; he didn't fall out with anybody, what are you talking about? Under him we couldn't get out of our group stage yes, but the easiest? easier then the group in which we got embarrassed last season? We got the easiest run during that EL season and got lucky with many results and where almost knocked out in the 1/2 final at OT. Maybe you've already forgot how bad we were under Mourinho.

 

[montpelier]

I don't know - it doesn't feel like it.

Then I think of the other stuff that wasn't or isn't him. Then I think you can't separate.

What about if there's a few better results but not overly much for the rest of the season? Is it all OK because we like the Manager - that isn't the question obviously.

What do we do with Lukaku, Matic & Sanchez. Sanchez might have a renaissance I suppose if OGS can cheer the overpaid preening divvy up by a tad.

 

[ZlatMan]

1) LVG didn't spend as much as Mourinho.

2) Under Mourinho (who was payed an insane amount of many) we won an EL and a LC after getting the best French League player (Ibra), best Italian League player (Pogba), best BundesLiga player (Miki) and one of the best La Liga defender (Bailly), in addition of the team that LVG finished 5th with in joint point than 4th, and finished 6th in PL. Last season we finished 2nd, 20 points behind the leader and 4 points better than Liverpool who sacrificed their league form to concentrate on the CL and also because Spurs and Liverpool had a low start to the season. We had the worst stats of the top 6 teams and got lucky our players were clinical and De Gea had a fantastic season (hence him winning player of the season despite Mourinho telling us, a season before, that it was an anomaly for a goalkeeper to be the best player of a team and that would never happen under him).

With LVG we comfortably got 4th in his 1st season and finish with same points than 4th in his 2nd season; he didn't fall out with anybody, what are you talking about? Under him we couldn't get out of our group stage yes, but the easiest? easier then the group in which we got embarrassed last season? We got the easiest run during that EL season and got lucky with many results and where almost knocked out in the 1/2 final at OT. Maybe you've already forgot how bad we were under Mourinho.

No we didn't. I remember we had to sweat against a Suarez -less Liverpool until the final weeks of May that year.

he didn't fall out with anybody, what are you talking about?

De Gea fax machine fail ring any bells to you? He hated LVG and wanted to leave if he stayed longer. Let's not forget Falcao, Di Maria, Rafael not having a single good word about him. The dressing room was twice more toxic where nobody liked him.

Under him we couldn't get out of our group stage yes, but the easiest? easier then the group in which we got embarrassed last season

We had CSKA, Wolfsburg, and PSV that year. Even an idiot would backed us to finish comfortably in top but LVG achieved the impossible and managed to fail in that group. The Nick Powell substitution will always remain a reminder of that disastrous campaign. At least we didn't get embarrassed like that under Mourinho until Seville.

Maybe you've already forgot how bad we were under Mourinho

Did we scored less than 50 goals in a whole season and Sunderland outscored us? Did he falled out with just about everybody not just a few big egos? Did we get beat by the likes of Norwich, Southampton, Sunderland, Midgetland, PSV and got smashed 4-0 by MK Dons? Was he a blind fan of Rooney and played him every week despite being finished ages ago? Did we sunk to our worse season in Europe as long as I can remember and became a laughing stock?

Perhaps YOU need to remember how bad it was in LVG's stint and apperciate the huge improvements Mourinho did for us.

 

[edgar allan]

Can you tell me in what world he was better than LVG?

If given the choice between the 2, who'll you bring back to be our manager?

impossible to answer, the football LVG played was stupendously awful, on too many nights the highlight of the game was the "attack attack" chant.

It is impossible to like anything about Jose, I feel so much better now not having to listen to his negative, self obsessed narcissist rantings.

 

[Sigma]

Don't think he was a failure or success.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Even for the staunchest Mourinho apologist it is incredibly hard to claim that we had a better season than Pool last year inspite of our league position which itself IMO was not that great an achievement even if it was mildly commendable...

Only if they are dealing with people who rely on emotion and personal bias rather than fact. The fact is last season United had a superior domestic campaign to Liverpool both in the league and both cups. Even without that being an oustanding achievement, because frankly both teams under achieved domestically.

All Pool had over Mourinho's Unitedlast season was aesthetics and fighting to go further in Europe because they weren't doing well in the league. And I don't even like Mourinho....

One would argue that the distant second we registered last year with the vapid football we played was more an aberration than an outcome that was justified.

Perhaps. But that changes not the reality that it cannot be claimed Liverpool had a superior season. In any shape of form because the facts simply dont back it up. Whilst JM was sacked entirely for the mess he engulfed United in from the close season till now. Not for anything that happened last season.

 

[red thru&thru]

Jose was just not successful.

Ruined us on the pitch. Tarnished the reputation of the club with his petty fights and comments. I struggle to sit here and think of anything remotely successful he did for us. Yes you can point to the Europa League win but even that he has tarnished it for himself as he kept banging on about the quality of players he inherited. At least Lvg left us with the likes of Rashford and Martial. Still to figure out what Jose did?!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Jose was just not successful.

Ruined us on the pitch. Tarnished the reputation of the club with his petty fights and comments. I struggle to sit here and think of anything remotely successful he did for us. Yes you can point to the Europa League win but even that he has tarnished it for himself as he kept banging on about the quality of players he inherited. At least Lvg left us with the likes of Rashford and Martial. Still to figure out what Jose did?!

LvG left us with a hell of a lot more deadwood than he started with. Mourinho has actually left behind some potentially very good players in Pogba, Dalot, Lukaku, Lindelof and Bailly. Was he a success? Partly. Got us back into Europe and a couple of trophies but as you allude to, almost undone with this pathetic season.

 

[Shaidabdullah Hussain]

I enjoyed the Europa league win immensely, but for me it went downhill from there. He became more and more bitter as the seasons went by and he ended up belittling our club both subtly and overtly.

The contrast since Olé has come in is striking just in terms of the mood around the club, it’s been great to hear someone talking the club up rather than being patronising / depressing. We’re the biggest club in England and I feel if we had continued with josé, we were accepting mediocrity.

Probably goes without saying that the football was Danny Dire as well

 

[LoveFootball]

No we didn't. I remember we had to sweat against a Suarez -less Liverpool until the final weeks of May that year.



De Gea fax machine fail ring any bells to you? He hated LVG and wanted to leave if he stayed longer. Let's not forget Falcao, Di Maria, Rafael not having a single good word about him. The dressing room was twice more toxic where nobody liked him.



We had CSKA, Wolfsburg, and PSV that year. Even an idiot would backed us to finish comfortably in top but LVG achieved the impossible and managed to fail in that group. The Nick Powell substitution will always remain a reminder of that disastrous campaign. At least we didn't get embarrassed like that under Mourinho until Seville.



Did we scored less than 50 goals in a whole season and Sunderland outscored us? Did he falled out with just about everybody not just a few big egos? Did we get beat by the likes of Norwich, Southampton, Sunderland, Midgetland, PSV and got smashed 4-0 by MK Dons? Was he a blind fan of Rooney and played him every week despite being finished ages ago? Did we sunk to our worse season in Europe as long as I can remember and became a laughing stock?

Perhaps YOU need to remember how bad it was in LVG's stint and apperciate the huge improvements Mourinho did for us.

I know you're the greatest Mourinho's fan so I'd not waste my precious limited number of posts arguing with you. But I've to laugh at the bold parts. If we were a laughing stock under LVG, I wonder what we were under Mourinho. And it's funny you're talking about "huge improvements" when he's the 1st United manager to have been sacked by Woodward before top 4 was mathematically impossible, meaning that the chaos and shambles he was causing didn't worth keeping him. Worst manager in our history in my point of view.

impossible to answer, the football LVG played was stupendously awful, on too many nights the highlight of the game was the "attack attack" chant.

It is impossible to like anything about Jose, I feel so much better now not having to listen to his negative, self obsessed narcissist rantings.

Honest opinion, if you were to pick one and have no other choice? I doubt you'll find more than a faction of 50 fans around the world who'll wish Mourinho back. I read some news on twitter yesterday (don't know if they are true), that even SAF sided with the players against Mourinho; if true, than I think there's not much to say about the man; when SAF decides to back a player over a manager, then without contest you're the worst manager in the history of the club.

 

[red thru&thru]

LvG left us with a hell of a lot more deadwood than he started with. Mourinho has actually left behind some potentially very good players in Pogba, Dalot, Lukaku, Lindelof and Bailly. Was he a success? Partly. Got us back into Europe and a couple of trophies but as you allude to, almost undone with this pathetic season.

Yea, good shout. The above players you mention should be a success. It just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth when then man who signed them, says their not good enough.

 

[edgar allan]

Honest opinion, if you were to pick one and have no other choice? I doubt you'll find more than a faction of 50 fans around the world who'll wish Mourinho back. I read some news on twitter yesterday (don't know if they are true), that even SAF sided with the players against Mourinho; if true, than I think there's not much to say about the man; when SAF decides to back a player over a manager, then without contest you're the worst manager in the history of the club.

If I had a gun against my head I would reluctantly have to pick LVG, but i would never show my face in public again.