India politics thread

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
19,433
We lost 300 quids worth of money because of this :mad:

Good thing to do overall though
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,211
In one step the counterfeit currency which accounts to apparently 1-3% in the market will be rendered useless, and funding terrorism/militancy from within is made difficult.
That was the first point which was mentioned by Modi in his address, the counterfeit currency, post which he talked about black money.

Thats a really interesting explanation and a far better write up than the BBC gave it the other day, but my question is that my understanding is that a lot of people, in particular in the poor rural areas live entirely off cash and don't have a back account of any sort (I understand you can take something like up to 5000 rupees a day into a bank and deposit them but can't do anything else, is that correct?)

So doesn't this in effect mean that a huge portion of the population have had their money made worthless and have been given no recourse as to how to convert it back in to real currency?
If these people don't have a bank account, they can still 'exchange' money up to 4K, per person in family, no need to deposit. They will get either the new tenders of 500 or old of 100 in return for that 4K. All they need is an ID card for this exchange. The amount above 4K will need to be deposited in bank. Also it is important to keep in mind that all this is about notes with 500 and 1000 denomination ONLY. So the poor or anyone, who is carrying cash in denomination of 100 and below need not exchange or deposit. Of say 10K cash at home of a poor, 5K is in 500 and 1000 and remaining is in 100s, only the former 5K needs to be exchanged/deposited. Any two member of family can distribute those 5K among them and go to bank and get exchanged.

About bank accounts: One of the first things current govt had done after coming to power was launch a bank account opening scheme, even with zero balance especially for poor who don't have one.

The article below, which is 1.5 years old is quoting the official govt site, says all but 23k households in a country of 1.25 Billion people have at least 1 bank account.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...sehold-has-a-bank-account-115021101677_1.html

Some critics say that the number may be exaggerated by govt or people in charge of this completed the 'target' by opening account for people already having or fake ones etc or that accounts are inactive/dormant because people don't deposit so it is of no use, but even then there isn't/shouldn't be huge proportion of people without bank account now post scheme. Those still left, the process of opening the account under the scheme which was launched for poor can still be used. Very basic documents are required for it. Even kids above 10 yrs could have an account under that scheme, albeit under parental guidance. The official site says that in absence of ANY kind of ID for a person, still account can be opened after basic background check by banks. Given there are 50 days remaining for money to deposit, one can easily open the account and deposit money well within time. After the 50 days, there are still 3 months to deposit the money but that won't be at all sites, it will be at RBI (Reserve Bank of India) specified sites only and requires little more documentation than just ID.

http://pmjandhanyojana.co.in/eligibility-criteria-open-pm-jan-dhan-yojana-account/


Overall I personally find the logical intersection of 'rural/poor', 'carrying large cash at home', 'have no bank account AND ID' and 'cash in denominations of 500 and 1000 for amount above 4K' giving few individuals, not huge. Even for them though, opening an account or applying for ID and getting it (if possible) can do the trick. I am just hoping some conmen don't use this situation to fool vulnerable people in between.
 

kps88

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
21,703
We lost 300 quids worth of money because of this :mad:

Good thing to do overall though
FYI, it's "quid", not "quids". There is no plural.

And you have up until March next year. Hopefully for your sake they might even make alternate arrangements after that.
 

harshad

Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey
Scout
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
10,922
Location
On a long road that returns to Old Trafford!!!
My dad just said he had a wad of rupees at home, and we aren't flying to India anytime soon.
There is provision made for NRIs where they can authorise someone else to deposit money on their behalf. Worthwhile to look into it and see if you can authorise some relative or family friend to deposit the money.

Also I take it you mean Rs. 300K, as I always undersood quid' as slang for 1 pound.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
19,433
FYI, it's "quid", not "quids". There is no plural.

And you have up until March next year. Hopefully for your sake they might even make alternate arrangements after that.
There is provision made for NRIs where they can authorise someone else to deposit money on their behalf. Worthwhile to look into it and see if you can authorise some relative or family friend to deposit the money.

Also I take it you mean Rs. 300K, as I always undersood quid' as slang for 1 pound.
Thanks. Yeah I meant £300 equivalent of rupees. My dad just mentioned it in passing so I'l try digging out more info but its good that there is still time to deposit the cash.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,211
My dad just said he had a wad of rupees at home, and we aren't flying to India anytime soon.
What Harshad said.
 

harshad

Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey
Scout
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
10,922
Location
On a long road that returns to Old Trafford!!!
Thanks. Yeah I meant £300 equivalent of rupees. My dad just mentioned it in passing so I'l try digging out more info but its good that there is still time to deposit the cash.
That's approx Rs. 30,000/-. Don't worry about it. Just authorise someone to deposit it in one of your accounts. Was going to suggest flying down but the cost of tickets would be more than the currency you have at home.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
19,433
That's approx Rs. 30,000/-. Don't worry about it. Just authorise someone to deposit it in one of your accounts. Was going to suggest flying down but the cost of tickets would be more than the currency you have at home.
Yeah its not that much to warrant a flight back :lol:

Although I am getting an engagement ring made out there (without even seeing it!) so a trip to India might just kill two birds with one stone. Ah well.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
45,779
Location
Mumbai
Yeah its not that much to warrant a flight back :lol:

Although I am getting an engagement ring made out there (without even seeing it!) so a trip to India might just kill two birds with one stone. Ah well.
Woah woah woah. If you don't like her, just say No.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
whats to stop the same black money process start again with 2000 rupee notes.

Have I missed something there?
 

Neutral

BTV
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
11,619
Location
DC/Canberra/Dhaka
whats to stop the same black money process start again with 2000 rupee notes.

Have I missed something there?
It's going to take a while for them to reorganize...after all corruption/greed is a human trait and as long as people are around, it's never going to be eradicated.

But, this is potentially a huge setback and it gives warning to certain groups and sectors that it's not business as usual.

Once you get past the initial pain - this really is a win-win
 

harshad

Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey
Scout
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
10,922
Location
On a long road that returns to Old Trafford!!!
whats to stop the same black money process start again with 2000 rupee notes.

Have I missed something there?
Nothing. Unless currency is banned altogether and we move to a regime where payments for everything be it for purchase of a house costing upward of Rs. 1 Crore i.e. Rs. 10 Million or purchase of an eclair costing Re. 1/- is made via some sort of card linked with your bank account, generation of black money will not stop.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
Nothing. Unless currency is banned altogether and we move to a regime where payments for everything be it for purchase of a house costing upward of Rs. 1 Crore i.e. Rs. 10 Million or purchase of an eclair costing Re. 1/- is made via some sort of card linked with your bank account, generation of black money will not stop.
Not abad idea now we have mobile money banking and credit cards.

Obviously not at a lower level, but say any purchase over 10,000 rupee's must be via a digital format ... if you are big enough as a business to accept such payments or rich enough as a customer to make such payments, then you're smart enough to use digital finance!
 

anant

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
7,108
Pretty great move, but the biggest of the black money hoarders are still safe as they have their black money in foreign currencies
 

newgiz

Full Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
800
whats to stop the same black money process start again with 2000 rupee notes.

Have I missed something there?
People who are greedy and corrupt will always be corrupt. However, I assume that over the next few months a few more steps will be taken. High value transactions, example, the sale of land etc. may no longer happen with just cash. It will have to be electronically transferred which in turn means that it will be harder to stash unaccounted money.

Pretty great move, but the biggest of the black money hoarders are still safe as they have their black money in foreign currencies
Well not exactly. What they have in foreign currency will have to eventually be brought back into the system in some way. I believe India now has treaties with several countries like Switzerland and Maldives for disclosure of account holders. And the moment we know the account holders, we know exactly who's hoarding up, and who holds unaccounted money.

Obviously this won't eradicate the menace of black money completely, but it is a step in the right direction and something no other prime minister ever had the balls to do. It takes a lot of courage to take such a big step despite knowing that there could be serious political implications to it.

Meanwhile, Arvind Kejriwal has turned into an utter clown. What a disappointment he is.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
People who are greedy and corrupt will always be corrupt. However, I assume that over the next few months a few more steps will be taken. High value transactions, example, the sale of land etc. may no longer happen with just cash. It will have to be electronically transferred which in turn means that it will be harder to stash unaccounted money.
Dont get me wrong, its a great initiative and Im really impressed that Modi's Government have done it. I simply hope its the start of a long term strategy and there are many more interventions which will solve this problem once and for all.
 

x42bn6

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
18,887
Location
西田麻衣の谷間. Being a nerd, geek and virgin
I'm in India right now (on a business trip) and all I have are RS 500 notes. :(

I know I can exchange them but I don't have my forex receipt, the queues are huge, and there's no guarantee the cashier can speak English.

At least I still have pounds and a credit card...

Two politicians ruining my day, on "9/11" too.
 

Donaldo

Caf Vigilante
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
16,910
Location
Goes it so.
Supports
Arsenal
I'm in India right now (on a business trip) and all I have are RS 500 notes. :(

I know I can exchange them but I don't have my forex receipt, the queues are huge, and there's no guarantee the cashier can speak English.

At least I still have pounds and a credit card...

Two politicians ruining my day, on "9/11" too.
Where in India? Can ask one of the local caftards in the city to help.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,211
I'm in India right now (on a business trip) and all I have are RS 500 notes. :(

I know I can exchange them but I don't have my forex receipt, the queues are huge, and there's no guarantee the cashier can speak English.

At least I still have pounds and a credit card...

Two politicians ruining my day, on "9/11" too.
How much you have?

I am a foreign tourist, I have these notes. What should I do?

You can purchase foreign exchange equivalent to Rs 5000 using these OHD notes at airport exchange counters within 72 hours after the notification, provided you present proof of purchasing the OHD notes.
Alternatively, seek help of employer's India office.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
14,714
Swaraj Abhiyan leader Yogendra Yadav tweeted: Positive move against counterfeit currency. Govt overplaying impact on black money. Opposition overplaying transitional problems.

Someone who knows a lot more than me and whose opinions I respect.
This is spot on. It is a huge blow for counterfeit market.
A very average blow in black market. Only small time black money guys will be in soup
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
14,714
whats to stop the same black money process start again with 2000 rupee notes.

Have I missed something there?
Nothing. Corrupt officials are going to demand bribes in new notes. Traders will start stashing new notes, that's it.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,211
Nothing. Corrupt officials are going to demand bribes in new notes. Traders will start stashing new notes, that's it.
Not that easy. This step is showing or rather increasing the 'cost' of carrying huge black money in cash. Nobody is saying problem of black money will go away totally but who is to say this step is not repeated in few years? After suffering a loss this time, someone will think twice before again stacking up cash in same amount.
 

harshad

Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey
Scout
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
10,922
Location
On a long road that returns to Old Trafford!!!
I'm in India right now (on a business trip) and all I have are RS 500 notes. :(

I know I can exchange them but I don't have my forex receipt, the queues are huge, and there's no guarantee the cashier can speak English.

At least I still have pounds and a credit card...

Two politicians ruining my day, on "9/11" too.
Where are you? If you are in a metropolitan city than I would be surprised if the cashier cannot speak english
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
14,714
Not that easy. This step is showing or rather increasing the 'cost' of carrying huge black money in cash. Nobody is saying problem of black money will go away totally but who is to say this step is not repeated in few years? After suffering a loss this time, someone will think twice before again stacking up cash in same amount.
So instead of stashing money, this time around they will buy stuff. Banning of notes should be combined with many many other steps maybe to actually make people get scared.
Repeating this can't be done too often. Costs are involved. People will be massively pissed off. Govts are in power based on small % of vote share. A few % flip in other direction will be devastating.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
45,779
Location
Mumbai
There is nothing you can do to simply stop black money being in the system. What you can do is make them think twice about taking that route, giving them a way to own up and pay their dues and if all fails, give them a big feck you like the govt has done. Does this move mean black money won't be there anymore? Ofcourse not. Nothing to stop people going the same route with the new currency but when people lose huge sums due to this move, atleast some of them will feel it's better to pay the % tax and own their money rather than see it go to waste like this.