Indonesian aircraft Lion Air crashes into sea

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11101

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RIP to all those involved. I wouldn't fly with any Indonesian airline, least of all Lionair. They're giving their best effort at keeping the Boeing 737 production line running almost singlehandedly.
 

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RIP to all those involved. I wouldn't fly with any Indonesian airline, least of all Lionair. They're giving their best effort at keeping the Boeing 737 production line running almost singlehandedly.
The planes are run off the same Boeing 737s and CFM engines as a lot of other short haul airlines? Not sure how much influence an airline has on these incidences?

Is there a history of poor regulations in Indonesia with overworking crews/other shortcuts?
 

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RIP to all those involved. I wouldn't fly with any Indonesian airline, least of all Lionair. They're giving their best effort at keeping the Boeing 737 production line running almost singlehandedly.
feck, I flew Malindo just a year back. Was a spanking new 737 too. There's going to be many of these bought by Indian carriers shortly as well.
 

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Not the first time its happened with Indonesian airlines, certainly this would not be the last either. RIP to all those involved.
 

berbatrick

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Weren't the Southwest engine explosion also on new 737s?
Randomly sorting through old plane crashes on youtube, the 737 historically didn't have a great record. The last major issue (rudder) took 4 years (and 2 crashes) to figure out.
 

11101

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The planes are run off the same Boeing 737s and CFM engines as a lot of other short haul airlines? Not sure how much influence an airline has on these incidences?

Is there a history of poor regulations in Indonesia with overworking crews/other shortcuts?
Lionair has an appalling safety record with a history of writing off fairly new aircraft; that's what I meant by that comment in jest. They keep buying new planes to replace the ones they crash.

Indonesia as a whole is about as bad as it gets, until this summer the whole country was banned from flying within Europe. Maintenance, piloting skills, airport operations are all very subpar.

Weren't the Southwest engine explosion also on new 737s?
Randomly sorting through old plane crashes on youtube, the 737 historically didn't have a great record. The last major issue (rudder) took 4 years (and 2 crashes) to figure out.
The 737 is a good aircraft. A new one is as safe as it gets. You see a lot involved in accidents simply because there are so many of them flying, some of which are getting very old, and some of which find their way into the hands of airlines who don't look after them properly.
 

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Horrible stuff. Being in a planecrash just seems like such a terrible way to go.
 

Balljy

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The 737 is a good aircraft. A new one is as safe as it gets. You see a lot involved in accidents simply because there are so many of them flying, some of which are getting very old, and some of which find their way into the hands of airlines who don't look after them properly.[/QUOTE]

Interestingly this one was brand new. First flew in August apparently. Sure there'll be a major investigation as it seems quick for it to be a maintenance issue. Was also the brand new type of 737.
 

SteveTheRed

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The 737 is a good aircraft. A new one is as safe as it gets. You see a lot involved in accidents simply because there are so many of them flying, some of which are getting very old, and some of which find their way into the hands of airlines who don't look after them properly.
Interestingly this one was brand new. First flew in August apparently. Sure there'll be a major investigation as it seems quick for it to be a maintenance issue. Was also the brand new type of 737.[/QUOTE]

Yes and by all accounts being flown by an experienced pilot (6,000+ hours). Definitely will be investigations, if it's a mechanical issue that would be huge.
 

11101

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Interestingly this one was brand new. First flew in August apparently. Sure there'll be a major investigation as it seems quick for it to be a maintenance issue. Was also the brand new type of 737.
Yes maintenance is unlikely, however I can't think of an aircraft accident in years that has been caused by a defect from the factory.

Smaller teething issues on the other hand are common, and if someone on the ground or in the air mishandled one it could quickly spiral out of control. That's the most likely outcome imo and has been a common cause of the Lionair safety record.
 

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How the feck a last generation airplane (Boeing 737-8 MAX) go down like that?

The black box has been recovered yet?

i put my money on pilot suicide.

(read that the plane was apparently repaired in Bali? good luck to the investigators.)
 
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crappycraperson

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How the feck a last generation airplane (Boeing 737-8 MAX) go down like that?

The black box has been recovered yet?

i put my money on pilot suicide.

(read that the plane was apparently repaired in Bali? good luck to the investigators.)
Pilot contacted ATC to try to come back so don't think it was a suicide type of situation.
 

Kopral Jono

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The planes are run off the same Boeing 737s and CFM engines as a lot of other short haul airlines? Not sure how much influence an airline has on these incidences?

Is there a history of poor regulations in Indonesia with overworking crews/other shortcuts?
Let's just say cutting corners is a real problem in all sectors of our society.
 

Lj82

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Pilot contacted ATC to try to come back so don't think it was a suicide type of situation.
The plane also encountered some problems in its previous flight from Bali to Jakarta. The layover was about 6 hours, meaning the engineers had about 5 hours to address the issue. The engineers supposedly signed off as having "fixed" the problem in the earlier flight.
 

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berbatrick

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I don't remember exactly, but around the time the A320 was introduced, there were a lot of similar crashes with untrained crew - in that case Airbus blamed the airlines for bad training IIRC. The A320 had extensive use of autopilot, and control system with a lot of automation, different from any Boeing and different from older Airbus planes. Crashes were caused when the aircraft auto-corrected for stuff the pilots were doing manually.
I don't think this new 737 is the same massive technological leap the A320 was, but the nature of the problem seems to be similar.
 

11101

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The initial report has been published and its as expected. Lionair are criticised for allowing the plane to fly despite numerous issues in the preceding flights, and the pilots on the flight before are especially criticised for pressing ahead despite those issues. They should have landed immediately but they knew how to switch the new system off and carried on as normal, unfortunately the next crew didn't and by the time they figured it out it was too late.
 
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