All I ask is for competent folks with a proven track record. No more yes men or 'freshers' just cz they were a united player. Its soul crushing to watch City and Pool being run so much better than us
Ineos appointments - Who will they be?
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Talk about a Sporting Director and head of recruitment to work beneath Blanc, Brailsford & Ratcliffe.
Just starting to wonder if it might end up being too many cooks in the kitchen. You need clearly defined roles. But seems like quite a few people with similar roles or intermingled roles.
Also would like to see head of scouts for Europe, South America, Africa and Asia who all report to the main scout. Those continental scouts then have 3-5 regional scouts that report to them who in turn have access to freelance local scouts etc
Just starting to wonder if it might end up being too many cooks in the kitchen. You need clearly defined roles. But seems like quite a few people with similar roles or intermingled roles.
Also would like to see head of scouts for Europe, South America, Africa and Asia who all report to the main scout. Those continental scouts then have 3-5 regional scouts that report to them who in turn have access to freelance local scouts etc
Blanc is CEO (the equivalent of Woodward), while Ratcliffe is owner (equivalent of Joel/Avram). They shouldn’t have much to do with transfers bar setting up the budget and enjoying the football.
Ornstein has said we want a DOF and a Head of Recruitment, and has also said we really like Ashworth, but no formal approach. Pretty sure a reliable Newcastle journo has commented but I can’t remember who. I think Mitchell is nailed on for the recruitment Role.
I think a Director Of Football who sets our style of play, negotiate transfers, handle player contracts, set a profile of player and set tasks for the scouting network and a Head Of Recruitment to work on bringing players in to fit the style of play, do due diligence and liaise with the scouting network are both very needed as that’s a massive workload for one person and why we’ve struggled in that department for years.
Ratcliffe is an owner and Blanc a CEO so that’s the equivalent job wise of Joel Glazer and Ed Woodward or Richard Arnold whilst Ashworth would effectively just be a monumental upgrade on Murtough so in reality it would only be Mitchell getting a role that isn’t already assigned to someone else, would you rather Ashworth be overloaded work wise so he can’t do his best for us ?
From what I gather it’ll be the structure would be,
Ratcliffe/Owner
Blanc/CEO
Brailsford/Head Of Performance
Ashworth/Director Of Football
Mitchell/Head Of Recruitment
Fletcher/Technical Director
ETH/A.N Other/Head Coach
Everyone there has a genuinely needed role within that structure (Fletcher is a liaison between the first team, reserves and academy) and it’s a modern day structure, the days of one man doing it all as manager died out when Sir Alex and Wenger retired and we’re years behind everyone else because we’ve never had this structure in place.
Yeah pretty much the day after I posted that message Ornstein put out article confirming we want to bring in both roles
Nice to see we’re claiming it as one of the best in the world without them even doing anything yet.
This smacks of everyone praising Murtough despite him doing a worse job than Woodward.
yeah it doesn’t really smack anything like that
One better be the Stalyvegas Strangler Paul Mitchell
Nobody knows, let’s save our time speculating and respond when we got the news!
New year, less speculating
\thread
Definitely.
Replacing rubbish doesn't necessarily guarantee the replacement will be better!
looking at Nice structure, it’s seems to be streamlined structure that has very definite definition and probably KPI’s for each role.
I think we will be looking at something like this;
Sir Jim - Part Owner
Sir David Brailsford - Director of Performance
Jean Claude Blanc - CEO
Dan Ashworth - Director of Football
Paul Mitchell - Head of Recruitment
Then we will see at least 3 under Dan Ashworth and 5 under Mitchell.
For example under Ashworth we could see
Youth Performance Director, Mens Performance Director and Women’s Performance Director
Paul Mitchel will have 5 head scouts such as Chief European Scout, Chief American and South American, Chief African Scout, Chief Asian and Oceanic Scout, Chief British Scout.
This whole area of the club will be completely revamped and many scouts will be sacked with a totally new process put in place. I can see a lot more metrics and analytics being used in a brand new hi tec hub being built as part of the carrington refurbishment plan.
Murtough and Fletcher will be asked to re apply for the roles for Men and Youth Performance Director. Neither will probably be successful, maybe Darren Fletcher gets the youth Gig?
Only something as radical as this starts to put the club on the right footing for future success.
I think we will be looking at something like this;
Sir Jim - Part Owner
Sir David Brailsford - Director of Performance
Jean Claude Blanc - CEO
Dan Ashworth - Director of Football
Paul Mitchell - Head of Recruitment
Then we will see at least 3 under Dan Ashworth and 5 under Mitchell.
For example under Ashworth we could see
Youth Performance Director, Mens Performance Director and Women’s Performance Director
Paul Mitchel will have 5 head scouts such as Chief European Scout, Chief American and South American, Chief African Scout, Chief Asian and Oceanic Scout, Chief British Scout.
This whole area of the club will be completely revamped and many scouts will be sacked with a totally new process put in place. I can see a lot more metrics and analytics being used in a brand new hi tec hub being built as part of the carrington refurbishment plan.
Murtough and Fletcher will be asked to re apply for the roles for Men and Youth Performance Director. Neither will probably be successful, maybe Darren Fletcher gets the youth Gig?
Only something as radical as this starts to put the club on the right footing for future success.
It does. You’re hailing the set up as one of the best in the world despite them doing feck all yet because they haven’t actually even gotten appointed.
For all we know, they might turn out to be the worst appointments ever made, which is inline with how this club has done for the past 10 years.
I think having these two roles are perfectly necessary. Essentially we are getting someone to replace Murtough's position and split it into two. We might be able to get more then one transfer done at a time with this system in place, who knows.
except, they’re all highly regarded and have been successful in said posts.
Murtough, Woodward had never had any experience anywhere in senior football before being given arguably the biggest jobs in football.
All of Blanc, Mitchell and Ashworth have all been very successful in what they do. Which is the jobs they’re been strongly linked to do. Granted, they haven’t been hired yet, but I don’t doubt it would be one of the best in the world if/when they are in place.
Mitchell reeks to me as someone who’d come and be an absolute disaster. Hasn’t done anything of note in a long time
From my limited knowledge, Dan Ashworth seems to be the best available appointment in the sporting director role
From my limited knowledge, Dan Ashworth seems to be the best available appointment in the sporting director role
You know who else has been very successful in what they’ve done before joining us? Most of our managers.
Don't know about others but I give credit to Murtough for his work related to academy. First team recruitment has been a disaster for years though.
Which is a different argument because how can the managers we’ve had be successful when the people above them can’t be.
The thing is, I'm guilty of this as well, when we say our limited knowledge, we really mean no knowledge.
None of us have a clue really. All we can look at is have they done the job before and how did it go. That's not really knowledge though, doesn't really mean anything in itself.
Just no more bankers or finance bros. Please.
I just read and take note of what people who would know say
https://theathletic.com/3395302/202...cademy-tchouameni/?source=user_shared_articleI
I think what he’s done in his last job at Monaco got unnoticed, although he is not my preferred candidate.
But everyone above them has been incredibly incompetent and under qualified, resulting in it being a shit show.
We have space for two roles, no more no less I think. We have tons and tons of scouts, I expect we have a good world network there, just poor decision making and connection to the first team
The idea that the ineos men will have full time roles is ridiculous. So when they get a new project what? Perfect for the board, with actual football men in football roles, and not just whatever lads the ineos men know.
All DOFs have one good team and then fail to replicate it elsewhere again. It’s almost like you need a combination of good manager, scouting network and board alongside the appointment, and even then if you don’t get the targets you’re stuck with players you don’t really want.
We may slightly improve with a DOF and proper recruitment structure but it isn’t the silver bullet people seem to think it is.
The only position Murtough should be asked to apply is that of ‘chief clown’. He can fight Woodward for that.
I would be delighted with this structure apart from Fletcher. In all honesty I have no idea (like the rest of us don't) if Fletcher is good at his job. But I know that the current hierarchy has been F'ing disastrous at hiring the right people for the right roles, and at least from the outside it seems to have prioritized people who wouldn't rock the boat as well as the well established job for the boys culture that seems to have been in place.
So for me I would just cut him, clean slate bring in everyone fresh who can come in with fresh eyes, no baggage, some one who has knowledge of how other clubs operate, not some one who has been part of a broken system and toxic culture for over a decade.
On this we completely agree my friend!
Bring back the man with open heart surgery ideas
Can you give me an idiots guide as to these roles (bolded)? Never got them, I’m obviously a dinosaur.
As far as I can tell Fletcher’s job is to liaise between the first team and reserves/academy to assess which players are ready to be brought up and based on Garnacho, Mainoo, Hannibal and Kambwala in the last 18 months I would say Fletcher has been the only one who’s performing at an acceptable level.
We’ve seen McKenna and Carrick both move on to be very good coaches elsewhere even though they were part of awful regimes at United so saying Fletcher should go because he’s worked with/under awful regimes isn’t a reason to move him on in my opinion and I’d love McKenna and Carrick at the club still based on what we’ve seen elsewhere.
If Ratcliffe and the structure he puts in place deem Fletcher to not be good enough then by all means he should be moved on and I do believe Blanc and Ashworth would be as good of a team as anywhere in football so know who could do better but look at Bayern, Real, Barca and Milan wit their use of previous players in certain roles.
Like I say I have no idea if Fletcher is doing good job/ bad job. The progress of youngsters could be simply down to Ten Hag spending the time to look for options in system. We have no idea.
My issue is simply I have zero trust of the hires any of the hires made by Woodward, Arnold. Also think the structure at United has been broken even toxic for so long, we need to completely strip away the culture we have at the club. Right now for us ex players need to be a no go zone, we need ideas from else where.
Clean state, fresh start, new voices, new ideas.
I’m certainly no expert either mate but my understanding is,
Blanc/CEO is in charge of day to day running of the club and only below the owners in hierarchy, oversees the functioning of the club and that everyone is working to the level the club requires
Brailsford/H.O.P I’m guessing is someone who crunches all the data/stats and analysis to show who is performing and who isn’t and why the reasons are and what is needed for them to do better or continue as such
Ashworth/D.O.F would be the one who is in charge of everything football related so decides our style of play, on pitch identity, identifies the type of player needed to fit our system, picks the head coach to coach players in said system, creates scouting jobs and handles contract negotiations
Mitchell/H.O.R would do talent identifying to fit our required criteria, create a huge database and network from around the world and forge strong relationships with clubs across the world so we’d know of any talent anywhere from pre youth level to pre superstar, they’d work with Ashworth in them bringing players in
With Fletcher it’s a bit vague as my understanding of a Technical Director was the person charged with bringing in staff so finding coaches to coach the style that the D.O.F had set, bringing in the scouting network, bringing in a top medical team etc but from what I’ve always seen and read is Fletcher is the bridge in liaising between the first team and reserves/academy.
Cheers, last one looks a bit wishy washy.
It doesn't really though because the names being mentioned (ie. Mitchell and Ashworth) have demonstrated a track record of success. Of course it might not work out, but at least it's hiring people with a track record. Murtaugh had no such track record and has done nothing since to dispel the notion that he is out of his depth, so those praising him come across as borderline delusional, whereas the person to whom you were replying at worst comes across as overly optimistic (it's the sort of optimistic I'd expect if we went out and signed Osimhen, De Jong, Kim Min Jae, and Frimpong - of course there are no guarantees but I think we'd all be justified in being excited at the team finally targetting and acquiring some of the best available talent for areas of need.)
For a director of football to be truly successful they need total power to make decisions about players/coaches. They also need a complete identity on the football they are trying to create. If Ashworth comes in, does he want the club to play transition football? gegenpressing? possession based?, and then he needs to stick to that. Players will come and go, managers will too, but the director of football needs to maintain that identity.
The best sports directors of recent times have been at their clubs for a long time and never wavered. Txiki has been at City for 12 years, Zorc was at Dortmund for 24 years, Berta at Atletico for 10 years, Overmars was at Ajax for 10 years, Marotta at Juve for 9 years, Monchi at Sevilla for 17 years.
So it is important we find the perfect person, but however that is must be given the time and patience to build something.
I suppose the post does include a measure of moaning, but the poster’s main point is surely pretty sound. Namely, examine how the generally agreed most successful clubs are structured and put that model in place here. No doubt clubs vary, but there must be some sort of best practice in these matters. We should follow it. Talented individuals are clearly vital, but the debates here seem to be focused on the restructuring of Utd. In my view, that’s exactly what we need after the chaotic shitshow of the Glazers.Why is it you always have to find something to complain about? This is a discussion about potentially having some of the most talented people in football back office roles working at the club, and somehow you've found something to moan about, it's incredible
In a year, you need to add 'dis' in front of 'appointments'.
It's all too predictable.
It's all too predictable.