Interesting article on Pochettino

[jem]

So I was browsing the link someone posted to old Sid Lowe articles from 2013 in one of the Mourinho threads (an absolute goldmine of telling articles from 5 years.) Anyway, I stumbled onto this one about Poch as he was about to join Southampton, and it details his time at Espanyol.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/jan/18/southampton-mauricio-pochettino

What struck is that although he initially did a great job saving the team from relegation, his time there was hardly a rousing success. It would appear that unlike Pep, and very few others in the history of management, he has had growing pains and has evolved to become the excellent manager that he is now (still my dream candidate for United.)

What's my point? Just that maybe it's not inconceivable to imagine Ole evolving is a similar way. A common sentiment (which I've noticed in a lot of articles and podcasts) seems to be that he is all positive energy and a breath of fresh air, but that his time at Cardiff is damning, and that in short, he'd be in over his head as a permanent manager at United. While Poch's time at Espanyol certainly wasn't as bad as Ole's at Cardiff (then again, did Espanyol have a Vincent Tan to deal with?), it shows that young managers can get better, that instant successes like Pep and Zidane are very much the exception. Furthermore, you could make a case for Ole's work at Molde being a measure of his improvement (didn't they emerge from a very tough Europa league group a season or two ago?)

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, except to say that the idea of Ole being the one to lead us back to glory is a lovely one indeed. Is it a risk worth taking, particularly if Poch is available? I'm not sure, but at least there is something lovely to dream about again after the Mourinho nightmare.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I don't think it is smart to rule Ole out. That said, no matter what he does this season, getting Poch might be a chance that doesn't always come up and we should probably still take it. But if he does very well I would be pretty uncomfortable sacking him for Jardim or someone similar

 

[AKDevil]

At the moment, I'm thinking regardless of what Solskjaer does, get Pochettino now. Madrid will always want him and if he does well with us he will eventually want to go to Madrid. Then, if Solskjaer proves to be a good manager, get him when Poch goes to Madrid.

 

[Ultimate_L]

I think this falls within the realms of allowing time to take place before jumping the gun. OSG has came in to stop what would have seemed to be an awful season under JM. I'm very happy with the point that the board are taking in order to fix issues which are clearly effecting us progressing as a better team. Winning with 5 goals against Cardiff was great to see and for the first time in a load of games, I will be looking forward to the next game. My point is, I don't think that this would have been the case for OSG had he won say 2-1 or if he lost/drew against Cardiff. Watching them on Saturday isn't really a great time to call an outcome which I agree will take the rest of this season to ascertain.

Whether we end up with OSG and a DOF above him or else we get another manager in, I am happy with the positive approach Woodward and co. have taken in order to fight this awful start we've had this season.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I don't think it is smart to rule Ole out. That said, no matter what he does this season, getting Poch might be a chance that doesn't always come up and we should probably still take it. But if he does very well I would be pretty uncomfortable sacking him for Jardim or someone similar

Ole's not going to be sacked. His contract term is limited.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I think this falls within the realms of allowing time to take place before jumping the gun. OSG has came in to stop what would have seemed to be an awful season under JM. I'm very happy with the point that the board are taking in order to fix issues which are clearly effecting us progressing as a better team. Winning with 5 goals against Cardiff was great to see and for the first time in a load of games, I will be looking forward to the next game. My point is, I don't think that this would have been the case for OSG had he won say 2-1 or if he lost/drew against Cardiff. Watching them on Saturday isn't really a great time to call an outcome which I agree will take the rest of this season to ascertain.

Whether we end up with OSG and a DOF above him or else we get another manager in, I am happy with the positive approach Woodward and co. have taken in order to fight this awful start we've had this season.

If you want to get promoted you'd better learn what order those initials go in.

 

[Foxbatt]

Woodward is in a no win situation. If Ole does a great job there would be tremendous pressure on him to give it to Ole. This means Poch is gone (if he ever agrees to come).
Then next season things may go belly up and there is no chance to get Poch or any other big name Manager. I would say better get Poch no matter what. Ole will learn from this experience and hopefully become a better manager in the future.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Ole's not going to be sacked. His contract term is limited.

think you know what i meant

 

[freeurmind]

If Ole gets us top 4 and we go ona decent cup or CL run he should be in the running. Poch would be my and most people's first choice but theres no reason why Ole can't put himself in the running. The OP makes a decent point, many managers including Sir Alex and Jose struggled initially, theres a learniing curve. If he shows he can handle the job at this level why not give him a run. More important is getting a DOF in and changing our recruitment process and ensuring that the youth team talent get a decent opportunity.

 

[Tincanalley]

If you want to get promoted you'd better learn what order those initials go in.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Woodward is in a no win situation. If Ole does a great job there would be tremendous pressure on him to give it to Ole. This means Poch is gone (if he ever agrees to come).
Then next season things may go belly up and there is no chance to get Poch or any other big name Manager. I would say better get Poch no matter what. Ole will learn from this experience and hopefully become a better manager in the future.

Not quite. Hypothetically Ole does amazing, we get in a proper DoF, him and Ole build an amazing rapport. The fans cans see everyone is pushing in the right by the improving results then nothing goes 'belly up' and Woodward wins. What do you think about this scenario?

 

[peridigm]

Woodward is in a no win situation. If Ole does a great job there would be tremendous pressure on him to give it to Ole. This means Poch is gone (if he ever agrees to come).
Then next season things may go belly up and there is no chance to get Poch or any other big name Manager. I would say better get Poch no matter what. Ole will learn from this experience and hopefully become a better manager in the future.

I wouldn't say its a no win situation. That is something you say when the outcome only has one possibility which is failure. Ole has not failed and may not fail. As much as the media and fans like to think, Poch is not a sure thing. He could be convinced to stay at Spurs if they finish the season well. He could go to RM. I'd like to think we're better suited to him than RM but we've got a bad track record of hiring managers since SAF retired. Poch could be thinking we're cursed. If Ole does well and gets us stabalized, Poch may think it's a good time to come to United. He could also be lured by RM and put in 3 years there then be fired for not winning the CL or the league.

To many variables at the moment. We all would love the romantic choice in Ole if he manages to pull us out of the funk we're in by the end of the season. Poch would also be a good choice based solely on what he's done at Spurs. If Ole does a good enough job by end of season to warrant him being made permanent manager, I'd be pleased with that choice but only if he's backed in the transfer market and we get a DOF.

 

[Adisa]

I read the article when it came out. His time at Espanyol was torrid. He sidelined the then captain and it went south.
I think he's a much better man manager than then. He went into the job at Espanyol with a "my way or the highway" approach and burnt bridges.

 

[ValenciaRocks]

Although it's early days, I'd much prefer OGS to stay on, regardless of where we finish in the table, he knows the club, it's philosophies and with time I think he can take us forward in the long run.

Although Poch is a great manager, he has one eye on the RM job (I'm pretty sure he's said it would be his dream job) and therefore wouldn't inject any stability. OGS on the other hand, along with a DOF would enable us to plan for the future, recruit young talent and hopefully lead us to success.

Poch perhaps for the short term but we've had too many mangers since SAF left that it's now time to implement a long term strategy. Don't be fooled by the baby face!

 

[devilish]

Ole needs to get much needed experience before he can take the job permanently. Hopefully a successful stint at United will provide him with a second EPL chance which will be totally deserved at that point. Having said that, there's a huge gap between Molde and United. That's something anyone would struggle to bridge.

If I was Ole's friend then Id say learn from Pochettino. He went up the ranks slowly, building up experience and learning from past mistakes on the way. Managers like SAF are extinct so Pochs will eventually move from United as well. At that point, he'll be in the perfect position to take the job without anyone questioning whether he's out of depth or not.

Having said that, whatever happens at United, Phelan must remain at the club. He's the experienced head United need to keep the ball rolling just in case everything go south. Unlike others he doesn't seem very ambitious and would love just to remain at service with United. You have to treasure someone like that. AC Milan used to have Tassotti, Inter have Beppe Baresi etc.

 

[Ultimate_L]

If you want to get promoted you'd better learn what order those initials go in.

Touché! - OGS, my bad!

 

[trevor newnham]

what does concern me is if Poch comes in, he gets rid of all the backroom staff who know United inside out and appoints his own staff. Thus, we lose Phelan , Dempsey etc etc (although losing Sbragia wouldnt worry me too much although he does seem to be improving ) . What then?

 

[charlenefan]

what does concern me is if Poch comes in, he gets rid of all the backroom staff who know United inside out and appoints his own staff. Thus, we lose Phelan , Dempsey etc etc (although losing Sbragia wouldnt worry me too much although he does seem to be improving ) . What then?

I dont see it as a problem tbh. Poch is a manager who doesn't need to have been an ex player to know our philosophy because it's one he shares (fast attacking football, giving young players a chance etc etc) it's not like the previous 2 managers who brought a completely new philosophy ones that are polar opposites to the clubs

If we can get Poch then we should, Ole's never going to turn the United job down so he'll always be an option in the future if Poch didn't work out

 

[Mr PG]

Annoying obsession with Pocchetino here. These are the same folks that were begging for Mourinho to be appointed. Paying for a head coach is just dumb especially when you already have a winning formula with ole. If it ain't broken , don't fix it.

 

[Rozay]

what does concern me is if Poch comes in, he gets rid of all the backroom staff who know United inside out and appoints his own staff. Thus, we lose Phelan , Dempsey etc etc (although losing Sbragia wouldnt worry me too much although he does seem to be improving ) . What then?

Poch himself has already worked with McKenna at Spurs, and it was KMs decision to leave him. Think there’s a good chance Poch would want to keep McKenna.

 

[Speedy30]

I'm not saying the OGS won't turn into a great manager but you've played some awful teams since he took over and they're games you would have expected to win even with Mourinho in charge.
Give him a few more games before you start thinking that he would be a better alternative than Poch.

 

[Green_Red]

I didn't believe Ole would start this well tbh, hoped but had reservations. Some major ticks that Ole has against his name for the job... He understands the club, the fans, the expectations, and what it takes to win at the very highest level. I've said in a few threads already, top 4, SF of CL and he should get the job. Poch is a good manager but we should only go down that road if Ole is a failure.

 

[Rado_N]

I'm not saying the OGS won't turn into a great manager but you've played some awful teams since he took over and they're games you would have expected to win even with Mourinho in charge.
Give him a few more games before you start thinking that he would be a better alternative than Poch.

Whilst your general point is entirely fair and I agree that it's far too soon to be making any judgements on Ole long term, I can't agree with the bold.

I'd in no way have expected to come out of those three games with 9 points if he was still in charge, and we'd almost certainly have drawn at least one of them due to his approach either causing us to to behind or switching off to defend a one goal lead.

 

[MJJ]

I'm not saying the OGS won't turn into a great manager but you've played some awful teams since he took over and they're games you would have expected to win even with Mourinho in charge.
Give him a few more games before you start thinking that he would be a better alternative than Poch.

Guaranteed we would have drawn one of the games with Mourinho and there is no way we would have won them in the same style.

 

[manichester]

I would like to see a period of stability to see how far we can go, Ole with the experienced Phelan and the young guns of Carrick and McKenna could well be the correct balance.

 

[#07]

I'm not saying the OGS won't turn into a great manager but you've played some awful teams since he took over and they're games you would have expected to win even with Mourinho in charge.
Give him a few more games before you start thinking that he would be a better alternative than Poch.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

We were also expected to beat Southampton, Palace, Derby etc. We weren't expected to ship three goals at both West Ham and Brighton.

Pretend nothing has changed all you want. It really has though.

 

[RedorDead21]

I'm not saying the OGS won't turn into a great manager but you've played some awful teams since he took over and they're games you would have expected to win even with Mourinho in charge.
Give him a few more games before you start thinking that he would be a better alternative than Poch.

Agree with this. He's done everything possible in terms of lifting the mood and having an immediate impact because of that. In terms of being a viable long term option we need to see him for the rest of the season which thankfully we will. Just happy to see us playing attacking free flowing football for now!

 

[Champagne Football]

I think we need to see how Ole handles top 6 teams before jumping to conclusions.

Tottenham away coming up will give us a better idea. Anyways I think he'd need a top 4 place to stay on. If he manages that then job should be guaranteed his

 

[Robbo's Shoulder]

It would be great to see United go on such a run that it would be inconceivable for Ole not to get the full time job. However, I'm just enjoying watching the team atm, knowing bigger tests are still to come. Lets see how we do against the likes of Spurs and PSG etc.
The 1 thing i do know is that 2 weeks ago i was dreading these games whereas now, I can't wait for them.

 

[Trophy Room]

I think we need to see how Ole handles top 6 teams before jumping to conclusions.

Tottenham away coming up will give us a better idea. Anyways I think he'd need a top 4 place to stay on. If he manages that then job should be guaranteed his

Interesting, so if success against top 6 teams is the barometer then we should stay the hell away from Pochetino!

 

[United Pro]

I think we need to see how Ole handles top 6 teams before jumping to conclusions.

Tottenham away coming up will give us a better idea. Anyways I think he'd need a top 4 place to stay on. If he manages that then job should be guaranteed his

We all know full well that the media will turn the United vs Tottenham fixture into a managerial battle for the United job.

 

[Janson]

Annoying obsession with Pocchetino here. These are the same folks that were begging for Mourinho to be appointed. Paying for a head coach is just dumb especially when you already have a winning formula with ole. If it ain't broken , don't fix it.

It's been 3 games.

 

[Reddevildans]

I think we need to see how Ole handles top 6 teams before jumping to conclusions.

Tottenham away coming up will give us a better idea. Anyways I think he'd need a top 4 place to stay on. If he manages that then job should be guaranteed his

Everyone keeps looking at that game at Tottenham. For me even IF we do lose that game, we should judge ole on the manner we have lost. A lost is never good, but its more satisfying us losing having a go and creating chances rather than a limb and flaccid approach that sees us defeated. These should be the first signs of recovery and a shift in style.

 

[Mr PG]

People make me laugh you'd think Woody picked Ole's name out of a hat especially after the calamitous reign of JM. Especially in light of all the ex united players who were available for the Job. Mike Phelan back as his assistant and i'm still hearing..oh lets wait and see against Tottenham etc. somebody tell me what miracles some exotic manager will perform besides what Ole is already doing.

The first common sense step of a coach is...do no harm....which Jose didn't adhere to in retrospect.

 

[Speedy30]

What I was getting at is that if role

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

We were also expected to beat Southampton, Palace, Derby etc. We weren't expected to ship three goals at both West Ham and Brighton.

Pretend nothing has changed all you want. It really has though.

Things have changed and it's obvious to see but what I'm getting at is that it may not be the best option long term. You've had 3 years of awful Mourinho-ball so at this stage, any manager that takes the shackles off your players is going to be lauded. We had Hodgson in charge for a few months and when Kenny Dalglish took over, it was like a breath of fresh air. We started playing good football and he was rightly congratulated for that.
Our mistake was thinkng that he was a great long term option. After the buzz of having him as manager, we let emotion get the better of us and thought he could change our fortunes.
Like I said, it's not to say that OGS won't turn out to be a great manager for you. He has a free pass for the league season this year due to the depths that Mourinho plunged you to and with the pressure off, I expect you to do very well.

 

[VeevaVee]

What I was getting at is that if role

Things have changed and it's obvious to see but what I'm getting at is that it may not be the best option long term. You've had 3 years of awful Mourinho-ball so at this stage, any manager that takes the shackles off your players is going to be lauded. We had Hodgson in charge for a few months and when Kenny Dalglish took over, it was like a breath of fresh air. We started playing good football and he was rightly congratulated for that.
Our mistake was thinkng that he was a great long term option. After the buzz of having him as manager, we let emotion get the better of us and thought he could change our fortunes.
Like I said, it's not to say that OGS won't turn out to be a great manager for you. He has a free pass for the league season this year due to the depths that Mourinho plunged you to and with the pressure off, I expect you to do very well.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say that everyone doesn't already know as a given?

 

[Gandalf]

Can't believe the comments about Ole needing more experience and maybe he should go manage another club and then come back. If you are good enough, you are experienced enough so all we need to do is judge him on results for the rest of the season. 400 or so games as a first team manager is not exactly novice level and nobody else we hire will understand the workings of the club or have the relationships that Ole has and so that can't be discounted either.

I like Poch as an option, I am unconvinced he really wants the job and even if he does I don't believe he guarantees anything although he does seem to do a good job developing players. There are probably going to be several very good jobs available come the summer and we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be the most attractive opening. Whether it is Ole or someone else I think we have to be creative in approaching this hire and we need to embrace the reality that Poch, Allegri, Zidane et al may have better options open to them and may only be interested in us as a negotiating tool to build their value.

 

[Raees]

What Ole has in his favour is an unrelenting commitment to attacking football and he is a **** figure.. just his sheer presence on the touchline has Old Trafford rocking with chants. I too am fearful that if the next man we bring in isn't as 'attacking'... we risk losing the progress we have made in our approach to games - I know it has only been 3 games, but I haven't seen this style for close to 10 years.

 

[Red_Legion]

The most sensible thing to do now is to continue to recognize the factors that led to the state we are in now and work towards fixing them. Hiring a DOF and a manager that can work with him to bring the style of football that the fans want to see is the better and more pragmatic solution that will have the better chance of succeeding long term. We really need to start changing how we do things rather than just looking at any manager and thinking: "Oh, he'll do".

Sticking with Ole is just the same thing we have been doing this past 3 managers except this time it looks like it has worked out but honestly we have not seen enough to gauge that yet. Van Gaal and Mou both managed those short periods where it seemed to scream "we are back" only to get resoundingly trounced by more resolute and higher quality opposition which made us retreat back into our shells and never to stick our heads out ever again. In Ole's defense I think he won't make the players go into our shells if that does happen I think, I don't see him being that kind of manager.

We will have to see how he manages against more better opposition before we start having fantasizing about our very own Saint Pep at Old Trafford.

 

[Tony247]

There is no way Man Utd going to finish top 4. Only possibility for next year's CL is to win it this time. So better be prepared for a scenario where we played really well and fought for CL but couldn't win or finish in top 4. In that case should we make Ole permanent manager or go all out for Poch?

Upcoming tough fixtures will reveal Ole's skills. Lets wait until the end of season to judge.

I say if he keeps the fans and players motivated with constant improvement, attacking football and fighting spirit then give him 3 years contract to finish the unfinished job. Just like currently the team need stability in defense, they too needs stability in management. Poch is not Pep so lets not push the club into another uncertainty.