Didnt you finish 1st in a group with Croatia and Spain?
Internationals June (Euro Qualifiers + Nations League Finals)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Tbf he got a shitty ball from Stones.
Shit match to watch but what a load of shit that was getting out of Guimaraes. Feck if I'm ever going back there again.
Do England fans only know 2 songs? God save the Queen and Your Suport is shite, thats what they sang all game, but great atmosphere all game
Mostly Chelsea fans probably. They do know one more song.
I agree and disagree. Right now, a more pragmatic approach might yield better results. I just think he prefers to go in at the deep end. I don't think England has the defenders or the midfielders to right now play either a very progressive possession game, or relentless high press (though I don't think any team gets it right 100% of the time).
Changing the cultural style of the team will take a long time and possibly come easier through younger players being trained differently in the coming years. Gareth is not some great tactician or technical expert, but he's brought calmness to the squad's environment and it's probably a bit of a relief for the players to have this bland positivity for a change, in and around the camp.
What would you want him (Southgate) to do (besides getting criticised)?
I can’t speak for the England fans here but I can speak something from a Portugal fan perspective. I am more worried with the games we have to play in Serbia or Ukraine than winning the Nations League.
And with this I am not dismissing the competition. It was a great idea, but let’s not try to make this a WC or Euros.
Not to mention the only good thing I saw from us was Ronaldo and Bernardo playing better together. The rest is always the same. I am predicting a battle for second place with Ukraine if we don’t win in Belgrade.
Anyway I see that you’re enjoying so be it.
I can’t speak for the England fans here but I can speak something from a Portugal fan perspective. I am more worried with the games we have to play in Serbia or Ukraine than winning the Nations League.
And with this I am not dismissing the competition. It was a great idea, but let’s not try to make this a WC or Euros.
Not to mention the only good thing I saw from us was Ronaldo and Bernardo playing better together. The rest is always the same. I am predicting a battle for second place with Ukraine if we don’t win in Belgrade.
Anyway I see that you’re enjoying so be it.
You have to be the most negative fan ever. We’re in a final for the third time in our history, no shit I’m enjoying it. I’m not confident in the slightest for the final but I’ll still enjoy it regardless of how we play.
Of course it’s not the World Cup or the Euros... nobody said it was. You’re letting your hatred for Santos’ football rule over your support for the national team if you can only focus on the negatives.
You have to be the most negative fan ever. We’re in a final for the third time in our history, no shit I’m enjoying it. I’m not confident in the slightest for the final but I’ll still enjoy it regardless of how we play.
Of course it’s not the World Cup or the Euros... nobody said it was. You’re letting your hatred for Santos’ football rule over your support for the national team if you can only focus on the negatives.
Nah my issue is being realistic and to stay grounded. Yes I cannot hide my dislike for him but it’s true at least for me winning the Nations League is meaningless if we don’t make at least second place. Ok I am ready to accept finishing behind one team. Behind 2? Unacceptable. Anyway I will not change my opinion based on Ronaldo hiding another collective failings. Nevertheless if my realism is turning me into negative mode, your irrational love for the Engineer is transforming you into the Zen master. Misc thoughts from the game:
-Barkley was diabolical the entire game. Every time I see him I’m more convinced he needs to be turned in to a 9 (or less likely a RB, but I think it’s too late to teach him to defend). Has no idea what he’s doing in midfield at all but he’s good physically and technically.
-Ajax got mugged for De Jong. He’s solidly ahead of a similar player like Modric was at his age. 125M player easy, just doesn’t score goals. Is there a safer bet to provide quality play for the next 10-12 years than him apart from Mbappe? I haven’t seen enough of Havertz but he, Sancho or De Ligt seem like the other players in that bracket and then a bunch of 25 year old guys who are great but have 6-8 top quality seasons left compared to the 10-15 those guys have.
-Can we not just offer Dortmund 100M for Sancho and a loan back there for a year to seal the deal? The club will still be around in 5 years and it won’t look a mistake then.
-I know the Dutch players are probably more comfortable in a 4-3-3 but considering how poor their attackers are and how quality their CBs are, 3 at the back with Blind tucked in makes more sense long-term, I bet there will be an issue with it in one of the big tournaments in the next 5-7 years. Blind, Van Dijk and De Ligt in defence with 2 wingbacks, De Jong, Wijnaldum and Van De Beer in midfield then 2 up front (Bergwijn and another) seems like it might suit their squad better. I guess we’ll see who else emerges for them over the next few years.
-Van De Beek’s movement is so good and he works hard. Really does seem like he could be Lampard 2.0. I hope we go for him, but if I was Arsenal, Liverpool, City or Chelsea I’d be really tempted too. Spurs less so, they need a deeper midfielder and Dele Alli is too similar probably.
-Feels like Harry Winks is going to get to 70 caps because England still can’t produce midfielders who know what to do on the ball outside of the final third, i.e the middle of the field!
-Rashford is so raw and we’ve been such a mess that he basically produces by virtue of having great pace, very good desire and can hit a ball. That seems like a good sign. I don’t think he’s a dumb footballer, so could really blossom if we sort ourself out.
-Rice is a CB for me, but I quit like him, He’s smart and a good athlete. I’d be fine with us spending 60M on him instead of Harry Maguire and just moving him back to CB. He has a good sense of danger, works hard, solid on the ball and less prone to mental mistakes than Stones, Walker or Maguire despite being younger. But some of the mistakes those guys made tonight were on the ball and because the midfield couldn’t find space to receive a pass.
-Who is the worst player from any country you can name who would still start in the Dutch attack? I’m thinking Danny Ings or Joshua King.
-Dumfries had 3 yellow cards at least and did his best to play Lingard onside for his cancelled goal
-Kane looked decent, can see why Pochettino started him even if he didn’t impact the final at all. History will judge playing Trippier and not Foyth at RB to be the worse mistake, even if it would have been a massive call.
-Why did we sell Blind again instead of having him cover all of LB, LCB, and DM and save us insane amounts of transfer money and wages by giving us 7.5/10 in those positions which is all you get from backups there anyways?
-Barkley was diabolical the entire game. Every time I see him I’m more convinced he needs to be turned in to a 9 (or less likely a RB, but I think it’s too late to teach him to defend). Has no idea what he’s doing in midfield at all but he’s good physically and technically.
-Ajax got mugged for De Jong. He’s solidly ahead of a similar player like Modric was at his age. 125M player easy, just doesn’t score goals. Is there a safer bet to provide quality play for the next 10-12 years than him apart from Mbappe? I haven’t seen enough of Havertz but he, Sancho or De Ligt seem like the other players in that bracket and then a bunch of 25 year old guys who are great but have 6-8 top quality seasons left compared to the 10-15 those guys have.
-Can we not just offer Dortmund 100M for Sancho and a loan back there for a year to seal the deal? The club will still be around in 5 years and it won’t look a mistake then.
-I know the Dutch players are probably more comfortable in a 4-3-3 but considering how poor their attackers are and how quality their CBs are, 3 at the back with Blind tucked in makes more sense long-term, I bet there will be an issue with it in one of the big tournaments in the next 5-7 years. Blind, Van Dijk and De Ligt in defence with 2 wingbacks, De Jong, Wijnaldum and Van De Beer in midfield then 2 up front (Bergwijn and another) seems like it might suit their squad better. I guess we’ll see who else emerges for them over the next few years.
-Van De Beek’s movement is so good and he works hard. Really does seem like he could be Lampard 2.0. I hope we go for him, but if I was Arsenal, Liverpool, City or Chelsea I’d be really tempted too. Spurs less so, they need a deeper midfielder and Dele Alli is too similar probably.
-Feels like Harry Winks is going to get to 70 caps because England still can’t produce midfielders who know what to do on the ball outside of the final third, i.e the middle of the field!
-Rashford is so raw and we’ve been such a mess that he basically produces by virtue of having great pace, very good desire and can hit a ball. That seems like a good sign. I don’t think he’s a dumb footballer, so could really blossom if we sort ourself out.
-Rice is a CB for me, but I quit like him, He’s smart and a good athlete. I’d be fine with us spending 60M on him instead of Harry Maguire and just moving him back to CB. He has a good sense of danger, works hard, solid on the ball and less prone to mental mistakes than Stones, Walker or Maguire despite being younger. But some of the mistakes those guys made tonight were on the ball and because the midfield couldn’t find space to receive a pass.
-Who is the worst player from any country you can name who would still start in the Dutch attack? I’m thinking Danny Ings or Joshua King.
-Dumfries had 3 yellow cards at least and did his best to play Lingard onside for his cancelled goal
-Kane looked decent, can see why Pochettino started him even if he didn’t impact the final at all. History will judge playing Trippier and not Foyth at RB to be the worse mistake, even if it would have been a massive call.
-Why did we sell Blind again instead of having him cover all of LB, LCB, and DM and save us insane amounts of transfer money and wages by giving us 7.5/10 in those positions which is all you get from backups there anyways?
Yeah I know. I wasn’t having a pop at you but at the people who think being able to pass a bit makes someone a good defender.
I hope the players don't have that mentality because with that attitude you're not winning shit. The Netherlands demolished both France and Germany to get there.. They clearly thought this was important. I like to think the English players did too. Fans be damned.
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Maybe its my shit memory but i could swear this place was pretty giddy up when England qualified for this thing.
For me, the real problem is that Southgate is trying to get the players to play a brand of football they're just not technically capable of playing. There's a reason why Stones isn't first choice at City - he simply doesn't possess the level of technique required to properly play out from the back.
All this talk about England need to stop playing possession football is a bunch of shite. Even if it leads to mistakes it is the way forward in the modern game and England’s results have been much improved in recent years and they’re a way better watch. I’d rather lose like that than play like Manchester United these days.
Only problem is finding a midfield which allows you to play that style of football as there is currently too much pressure on the defenders to find the forward pass as there is no De Jong like figure to take the pressure off them in possession.
Winks, Grealish, Maddison - these type of players need to get into the side. Southgate is clueless when it comes to picking midfielders but other than that his management has been solid.
Only problem is finding a midfield which allows you to play that style of football as there is currently too much pressure on the defenders to find the forward pass as there is no De Jong like figure to take the pressure off them in possession.
Winks, Grealish, Maddison - these type of players need to get into the side. Southgate is clueless when it comes to picking midfielders but other than that his management has been solid.
How are they not capable of playing possession football when players like Walker, Stones, Maguire, Chilwell, Delph, Barkley, Sterling, Sancho all plays for the team that play possession football. Even the subs who came on play possession football.
They should have played Winks instead of Delph to play the game even better.
Rule Britannia?
Oh! I know the one!!
Chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea chelsea.
It's brilliant.
I find this post rather disgraceful. We can't choose where we are born and to be forced to support someone because they happen to be born in the same country (by chance) makes no sense. You should be free to support anyone you like. Patriotism is a stupid and dangerous concept.Not supporting your country is a disgrace to be fair mate. You would never see this in France or Germany or Brazil or Argentina. I suppose that mentality is why we fail. England have become a very unpatriotic nation though, hell, half the country thinks the flag is racist
This just isn't true. He has the third highest pass completion rate of all players in the top 5 leagues this season. His long passing completion rate is also in the highest bracket. His problem has always been those terrible brain farts, concentration. Its something that plagued Rio in his early career but he got over it. Stones really needs to get a grip on it.
Kane never should've started, don't know what Southgate was thinking.
From what I've seen (latst 10' and extra-time), Henderson was pretty good once again and Stones was pretty horrible, once again.
From what I've seen (latst 10' and extra-time), Henderson was pretty good once again and Stones was pretty horrible, once again.
Kane didn't start, he came on as a sub at half time.
Ah fair enough, thought he'd started because he was captain. Makes it a little less worse but honestly, to me last Saturday showed that he simply isn't even close to his best form (understandably).
I put the defeat on Smalling. Nobody can convince me otherwise.
Surely this time we can beat the Portuguese. They only field 1 real player. Surely?
England need to start producing some good midfielders and defenders.
Meh, I'd have preferred to see Portugal vs England final. Pathetic England. Can't even beat this Netherlands team. Classic England always disappointing when expectations are set high. I genuinely thought England would win this tournament, it would be a great confidence booster for the team to prepare for Euro 2020. Portugal, please beat Netherlands!!! Can't have them winning this tournament. I feel sick.
Yes, winning it just gives you a direct qualification for the next Euro. Total waste of time.
The english FA should use a mix of U20 and less used in the Nations League group stage next time to give them experience, then.
Harry Winks' reputation increases when he doesn't even play, the sign of a good player
No, his technique is absolutely fine, he just makes stupid decisions and takes liberties.
Embarrassing, Kane didn't start
Heard there was some fan trouble before the game yesterday?
Absolutely. A midfield of Winks, Grealish and Maddison would look good.
Likewise Joe Gomez and TAA. Shame Gomez is always injured.
Henderson is England's best midfielder as we speak. From the ones called up by Southgate so far. He's really underrated.
We really need the likes of Foden to start getting regular game time at his club and get bedded into the England team. Until we can control a midfield we will keep seeing games like last night.
Add him too to the list of names I mentioned. Winks, Grealish, Foden, Maddison, Angel Gomes etc. England need to focus on bringing these guys through ASAP.
In what way?
I paused the replay that they showed and he was onside. So they must have had another angle that showed him offside otherwise I think VAR got it wrong...
Barkley getting a lot of stick for the goal but he shouldn't have been given the ball in the first place. Completely marked with no outlets. Ball should have been cleared. But John Stones? Oh my...
To be fair, the only other British song sung yesterday was “Always look on the bright side of life”. I’m sure they know that one now.
Rashford going off was a massive loss... the pace of the front 3 was giving Netherlands major concern in the first half, and without that in the second they basically dominated.
Honestly I was annoyed with the forwards all match. But I would have made some other choices anyway.
Would rather have seen Kluivert on right wing over Babel, van de Beek over Wijnaldum. Shame Ziyech and Mazraoui opted to play for Morocco, cause they surely would have outplayed Bergwijn and Dumfries for those positions respectively (I would almost, almost opt for Veltman as RB, but I’m not that into ‘spontaneous sado-masochism’...) Promes did well as a substitute, but wouldn’t fancy him as starting eleven. As for the central striker position, probably would have opted for Luuk de Jong this season over Depay easily. Hell, we could still field Huntelaar and he would do much better than that ego-tripper. Perhaps it is time to look at Sam Lammers (22, Heerenveen, on loan from PSV, might go to Sampdoria (?)) as a potential international. He scored domestically as many as Huntelaar this season (16 goals) with a substantially worse team (11th place). Just three more matches than Huntelaar and one more assist (5 vs 4) this season.
De Roon didn’t do badly, but kinda miss Siem de Jong (30, Sydney FC, but under contract with Ajax). Hope he will be fit for duty at Ajax next season again. With Frenkie leaving, we need another de Jong to keep a chance of winning the title. Will probably be an amazing midfield with Frenky and Siem together in the Dutch national team if Siem gets back to his old self.
Would rather have seen Kluivert on right wing over Babel, van de Beek over Wijnaldum. Shame Ziyech and Mazraoui opted to play for Morocco, cause they surely would have outplayed Bergwijn and Dumfries for those positions respectively (I would almost, almost opt for Veltman as RB, but I’m not that into ‘spontaneous sado-masochism’...) Promes did well as a substitute, but wouldn’t fancy him as starting eleven. As for the central striker position, probably would have opted for Luuk de Jong this season over Depay easily. Hell, we could still field Huntelaar and he would do much better than that ego-tripper. Perhaps it is time to look at Sam Lammers (22, Heerenveen, on loan from PSV, might go to Sampdoria (?)) as a potential international. He scored domestically as many as Huntelaar this season (16 goals) with a substantially worse team (11th place). Just three more matches than Huntelaar and one more assist (5 vs 4) this season.
De Roon didn’t do badly, but kinda miss Siem de Jong (30, Sydney FC, but under contract with Ajax). Hope he will be fit for duty at Ajax next season again. With Frenkie leaving, we need another de Jong to keep a chance of winning the title. Will probably be an amazing midfield with Frenky and Siem together in the Dutch national team if Siem gets back to his old self.