Introducing playoffs in the Premier League

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
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Been a long time advocate of playoffs for the last CL place and I came across it discussed on Twitter the other day so thought I'd throw it out there to see if I'm alone.

Purists that I come across seem to be against the general idea of playoffs, but i see it as a way of adding way more excitement and actually prolonging the competitive nature of the league.

I'd quite like to see a 4 team playoff for the last spot (4th-7th). 1 legged ties, with highest placed teams getting home advantage. Final at Wembley or something (or maybe even abroad.. :raises eyebrow: )

This has the following advantages:

1. Would make for a really exciting playoff tournament at the end of the season.
2. Would prolong the competitive nature of the league as teams perhaps as low as 10th would still have something to play for towards the end of the season (so way fewer dead rubbers)
3. Yet more TV revenue
4. A little more PL variety in the CL.

Its a bit if a weird concept, almost treating CL qualification as a trophy, but the money of the CL makes it worthy. Just look at how much of the discussion on here lately has been around "making top4" lately.

Thoughts?


Maybe even a playoff for the last relegation spot too. But I'm not sure if that would be a bit too hard to watch, and probably a bit morbid given what's at stake..
 
Carl said:
Kool bro. Kool kool.
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Why should a team that got 4th place have to fight against a team that could only manage 7th for a chance to get champions league spot? You want the 7th best team in England in the champions league? What about Europa League? You get 4th then you lose to 7th team and they get champions league on basis of ONE/TWO GAMES and you end up in Europa League? What if the difference between 4th and 7th is 10 points or more? This is ridiculous.
 
I think neutrals would be in favour of it for the reasons you mention, plus the fact it doesn't "lock in" which clubs are CL clubs and which aren't.
But imagine ending 4th, say, a good 10 points in front of the 5th placed team. You'd be pretty pissed if a few games at the end of a 38 game season meant your missing out anyway.
 
balaks said:
Why should a team that got 4th place have to fight against a team that could only manage 7th for a chance to get champions league spot?
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Because they would be the rules.. Why should a team that finishes 3rd fight for promotion against a team that finishes 6th?

Like I stated in the OP, some people just don't like playoffs full stop. I take it you're in that camp @balaks ?
 
Teams are already playing a feck ton of games. And add to the fact that we have a ton of international tournaments as it is, and it seems useless.

Your team has 38 games to secure a Top 4 position. If it can't, tough chance. Better luck next year.
 
Carl said:
Because they would be the rules.. Why should a team that finishes 3rd fight for promotion against a team that finishes 6th?

Like I stated in the OP, some people just don't like playoffs full stop. I take it you're in that camp @balaks ?
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I think it works ok for promotions in championship and so on but for this no it's a shockingly bad idea.
 
Maagge said:
I think neutrals would be in favour of it for the reasons you mention, plus the fact it doesn't "lock in" which clubs are CL clubs and which aren't.
But imagine ending 4th, say, a good 10 points in front of the 5th placed team. You'd be pretty pissed if a few games at the end of a 38 game season meant your missing out anyway.
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Of course you'd be pissed. But that's just sport, right?

As much as I think playoffs would be super entertaining, I actually see the reduction of dead rubber games as being an even bigger advantage.
 
Carl said:
Whats the difference?
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I'm not going to engage in this anymore because it's such an awful idea it's obvious why it would be a disaster. I'm just going to refer you back to my first answer: No.
 
balaks said:
I'm not going to engage in this anymore because it's such an awful idea it's obvious why it would be a disaster. I'm just going to refer you back to my first answer: No.
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Haha OK, I'm certainly not interested in forcing you to have a discussion. I'm just curious why the think the exact same format works for promotion but not for this.

I understand why some are totally against the idea of playoffs. But really don't get it how you can ok with it in one way but not another.

I'm not touchy about this. This idea isn't my child or anything. I'm genuinely curious about opinion.
 
This is the most Arsenal idea ever.
 
We don't have play offs now, and I'd argue it's just as exciting. You're also adding a bunch of games to an already stacked calendar, especially for teams around those places who have probably already gotten a decent way into several cup competitions - where are you going to fit the games around the FA cup final, the lower league play offs, CL and EL final? Not even considering internationals.

I know Germany do a playoff for their last relegation spot, and I've always hated it. Fascinating for a neutral, but probably horrible if you're a fan of a team involved.

Doubt even the Premier League have entertained this as an idea which probably shows how silly it is.

EDIT: I'd be far more interested in giving the fourth CL spot to the winners of the FA Cup. The league already dominates attention, and it would make that competition far more relevant and exciting without adding any more games into the domestic season.
 
It is an horrific idea.

A couple of seasons back 7th placed Burnley, who finished 21 points behind 4th place would get a shout of playing in the Champions league based off of 2 extra Premier League matches....No thanks!
 
Season is long enough as it is,
No fairer way than home and away against everyone and whoever is left standing gets the chocolates.
 
littlepeasoup said:
We don't have play offs now, and I'd argue it's just as exciting. You're also adding a bunch of games to an already stacked calendar, especially for teams around those places who have probably already gotten a decent way into several cup competitions - where are you going to fit the games around the FA cup final, the lower league play offs, CL and EL final? Not even considering internationals.

I know Germany do a playoff for their last relegation spot, and I've always hated it. Fascinating for a neutral, but probably horrible if you're a fan of a team involved.

Doubt even the Premier League have entertained this as an idea which probably shows how silly it is.
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Ha. Last para is funny. You've no idea if the PL have ever considered this.

I totally hear you re fixture congestion though. Who actually gives a shit about the FA Cup these days though (unless you're actually in the final)? Just look at the team selections for this year's semis for recent examples..
 
littlepeasoup said:
We don't have play offs now, and I'd argue it's just as exciting. You're also adding a bunch of games to an already stacked calendar, especially for teams around those places who have probably already gotten a decent way into several cup competitions - where are you going to fit the games around the FA cup final, the lower league play offs, CL and EL final? Not even considering internationals.

I know Germany do a playoff for their last relegation spot, and I've always hated it. Fascinating for a neutral, but probably horrible if you're a fan of a team involved.

Doubt even the Premier League have entertained this as an idea which probably shows how silly it is.

EDIT: I'd be far more interested in giving the fourth CL spot to the winners of the FA Cup. The league already dominates attention, and it would make that competition far more relevant and exciting without adding any more games into the domestic season.
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Re your edit. I like that idea too. Only problem with that being the anomaly a side like Wigan was to win it again, as a team just totally bombing out would harm our coefficient (if it happened regularly enough)
 
cj_sparky said:
It is an horrific idea.

A couple of seasons back 7th placed Burnley, who finished 21 points behind 4th place would get a shout of playing in the Champions league based off of 2 extra Premier League matches....No thanks!
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How do you feel about playoffs in the lower league?
 
The main driver for play-offs in lower leagues is to make as much of the season meaningful for as wide a range of teams as possible. I don't think that driver exists in the Premier League because there is already the carrot of qualification for European football, be it Champions League or Europa League.
 
No. The entire concept is weird. Also, there's already too many fixtures so adding more isn't a good idea.
 
Carl said:
Re your edit. I like that idea too. Only problem with that being the anomaly a side like Wigan was to win it again, as a team just totally bombing out would harm our coefficient (if it happened regularly enough)
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To be fair there's only been two instances in the past two decades where a team outside the established 'big clubs' has won it, Wigan and Portsmouth - don't think I'm forgetting anyone.

I'd counter that by saying that if the CL spot was up for grabs you'd probably see bigger teams taking it more seriously in the earlier rounds, and fewer 'minnows' getting through to the later stages - not saying it wouldn't happen, but it'd make one hell of a story (akin to Leicester winning the league).
 
38 PL games not enough? Let's have 8-10 more, for the fun of it and TV money and revenues.
Excelent idea.
Let's have it this year, for example, first team has to play against 4th team in play off, if 4th team wins they are champions. :angel:
 
Gio said:
The main driver for play-offs in lower leagues is to make as much of the season meaningful for as wide a range of teams as possible. I don't think that driver exists in the Premier League because there is already the carrot of qualification for European football, be it Champions League or Europa League.
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This reason why play offs in the Championship is fine with me but not in PL.

Also too many games, don't need more.
 
I don't even think it's the best idea in the Championship personally.

The fairest way to qualify should be your league position due to the accumulation of results against everyone else in the same league. Play offs do add a tournament feel and excitement, yes, but I find it unfair really.
 
Not fair for the higher positioned teams who worked more to get points.
Would also meant some teams started to rest key players early in league games for the playoff late season once they are mathematically in the range.


Imagine if the table ended like this,
Team - Pts
3rd - 63
-------------
4th - 62
5th - 55
6th - 48
7th - 38
-------------
8th - 37
9th - 35


Teams
4th team - worked the hardest to get 3rd but lost in the end and then "sorry, you need to play a playoff."

5th team - worked harder to maintain ahead in this range. Been doing this every season.

6th team - just need to be in this range and relax. Similar with #5.

7th team - luckily sneaked in late season. "Wow, this is so easy."
 
Carl said:
How do you feel about playoffs in the lower league?
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I agree with the sentiment that they serve a purpose of keeping of fixtures in those league more meaningful.

I wouldn't care if they scrapped them in the EFL or the ones in the Conference that are a 6 team playoff.

The season we finished 7th, we deserved to be there and with that we deserved to miss out on the Champions League. We didn't deserve a get of jail mini tournament.
 
Carl said:
Been a long time advocate of playoffs for the last CL place and I came across it discussed on Twitter the other day so thought I'd throw it out there to see if I'm alone.

Purists that I come across seem to be against the general idea of playoffs, but i see it as a way of adding way more excitement and actually prolonging the competitive nature of the league.

I'd quite like to see a 4 team playoff for the last spot (4th-7th). 1 legged ties, with highest placed teams getting home advantage. Final at Wembley or something (or maybe even abroad.. :raises eyebrow: )

This has the following advantages:

1. Would make for a really exciting playoff tournament at the end of the season.
2. Would prolong the competitive nature of the league as teams perhaps as low as 10th would still have something to play for towards the end of the season (so way fewer dead rubbers)
3. Yet more TV revenue
4. A little more PL variety in the CL.

Its a bit if a weird concept, almost treating CL qualification as a trophy, but the money of the CL makes it worthy. Just look at how much of the discussion on here lately has been around "making top4" lately.

Thoughts?


Maybe even a playoff for the last relegation spot too. But I'm not sure if that would be a bit too hard to watch, and probably a bit morbid given what's at stake..
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I was going to say I don't like the idea but your 2nd point has swayed me into liking it.
 
Sigma said:
I was going to say I don't like the idea but your 2nd point has swayed me into liking it.
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Thats the biggest kicker for me. Teams would be desperate to qualify for the CL playoffs. I dont see that same level of desire to get into a Europa spot.
 
There should be a play-off for relegation as well. Team fourth from bottom plays the losers of the championship play-off final.
 
Carl said:
Thats the biggest kicker for me. Teams would be desperate to qualify for the CL playoffs. I dont see that same level of desire to get into a Europa spot.
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How would you allocate the Europa League spots? If 3 qualify from the league then it would be the losers of the mini-tournament, but if only 2 qualify from the league, it would be the loser in the final and who else?
 
Sigma said:
How would you allocate the Europa League spots? If 3 qualify from the league then it would be the losers of the mini-tournament, but if only 2 qualify from the league, it would be the loser in the final and who else?
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Hmmm, dunno. Not sure what the current rules are around Europa tbh. Probably just play off losers, then if it needs further narrowing down would need to go to league placing?
 
Sigma said:
How would you allocate the Europa League spots? If 3 qualify from the league then it would be the losers of the mini-tournament, but if only 2 qualify from the league, it would be the loser in the final and who else?
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Let's not forget that actually only ONE team qualifies for the Europa League from the Premier League - the other two EL places are for the cup winners.

It could work something like this, I guess:
- Playoff winner qualifies for the Champions League
- Playoff runner-up qualifies for the Europa League
- Depending on whether the cup winners qualified for Europe, the two losers of the playoffs might qualify for the EL. If only one place is available (because, say, the League Cup was won by a relegated team while the FA Cup was won by the league champions), the team that finished higher in the regular season will qualify.

I don't really like the idea overall but it could work like this.
 
Playoffs and finals are stupid. Keep the league structure.
A couple of years ago in my home league our team won the 'Premiers Plate' by 20 points and only lost one game during the season. Then had to go into a finals series and in the grand final 40k people are all sitting there going "why the feck are we even here, we're 20 points better than this team this is pointless". Anyway it ends up going to penalties and we win the league but the whole thing was stupid. It wasn't even a celebration of how good we were, just a tense feeling of why the feck does this shambles of a second place team even have a chance to win the league against us.

Then the year after, same deal.15 points ahead of the second place team and we go into a semi and get knocked out by a 119th minute injury time fluke dribble and fang at goal. Stupid.
 
balaks said:
Why should a team that got 4th place have to fight against a team that could only manage 7th for a chance to get champions league spot? You want the 7th best team in England in the champions league? What about Europa League? You get 4th then you lose to 7th team and they get champions league on basis of ONE/TWO GAMES and you end up in Europa League? What if the difference between 4th and 7th is 10 points or more? This is ridiculous.
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But then look at Championship. A team can get 3rd, 1 point behind second and they still have to go into playoffs for the PL spot. So technically, we can get the 6th best team in Championship getting into PL.

I think it would be quite fun in terms of entertainment and that's all I want from football.
padzilla said:
There should be a play-off for relegation as well. Team fourth from bottom plays the losers of the championship play-off final.
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I think Bundesliga do something like this? I think the third from bottom in the top division plays the third from top from the second division? Or something like that.
 
I think two playoffs are more reasonable. CL should be the hardest to get, playoffs made it easier to weaker teams or underperform strong team.

1. Relegation playoffs between 15th-20th. Would add more competition and made the league harder. More lower teams would play better and go for it to get points. 10th-16th are safe.

2. Europa League playoffs between 6th, 7th and 8th for one qualification team. Would give mid-table and lower teams something to aim for. 5th is automatic EL as does FACup winner. If the FAC winner is among 5th-8th then it extend to 9th.
 
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