If FF are put back in next election I'm leaving the country.
Irish Politics
- Thread starter JakeC
- Start date
Irish politicians working through the night to pass emergency legislation, this can't be good. It looks important. I have very little idea what's going on but it looks worrying, all the political journalist going mad.
From what I can see it's like this: IBRC (Anglo) has to be liquidated. Government says they have to rush this through for tomorrow or a huge amount of money (14 bn?) will be lost. Opponents to the legislation saying it may be unconstitutional, it may have repercussions for decades to come. Also say we'll be transferring Anglo debt to the ECB, which can never write it down. TD's had around five minutes to read the legislation before the vote, fears of another screw up along the lines of the bank guarantee in '08.
Twitter stuff I've been seeing:
Really hope this isn't another one of those screw ups we're gonna be hearing about for years...
From what I can see it's like this: IBRC (Anglo) has to be liquidated. Government says they have to rush this through for tomorrow or a huge amount of money (14 bn?) will be lost. Opponents to the legislation saying it may be unconstitutional, it may have repercussions for decades to come. Also say we'll be transferring Anglo debt to the ECB, which can never write it down. TD's had around five minutes to read the legislation before the vote, fears of another screw up along the lines of the bank guarantee in '08.
Twitter stuff I've been seeing:
Chris Donoghue:
"It looks like Anglo needs to be liquidated in emergency legislation for a move the Central Bank governor wants to make at ECB. 9pm in Dail"
"Just spoke to a member of Cabinet. They say cat is out of the bag and if it's not done by 7am a lot of money will leave Anglo"
"Stephen Donnelly: This bill has implications for decades to come, we have not had time to go through it."
"Tanaiste: What is happening is a contingency plan and was necessary as the risk to assets became too great today"
"Michael Martin says with potential of €14bn risk to the state there is no alternative but to accept the bill this morning"
Matt Cooper:
"Sinn Fein's Pearse Doherty warns that rushed banking legislation tonight risks repeating the mistakes of the past"
"@JustinTodayFM: TDs have the bill. They've 5 mins to read it before the Dáil sits. #anglo” >> that is nuts. This should take days."
"These are the people who run the country - and we elect them."
Elaine Byrne:
"This is massive: "The common good may require permanent or temp interference with the rights, incl property rights, of persons"
Shane Ross:
"That is it then.The unborn being loaded up with debt incurred by Anglo.God forgive those doing this to get over a political embarrassment"
"It looks like Anglo needs to be liquidated in emergency legislation for a move the Central Bank governor wants to make at ECB. 9pm in Dail"
"Just spoke to a member of Cabinet. They say cat is out of the bag and if it's not done by 7am a lot of money will leave Anglo"
"Stephen Donnelly: This bill has implications for decades to come, we have not had time to go through it."
"Tanaiste: What is happening is a contingency plan and was necessary as the risk to assets became too great today"
"Michael Martin says with potential of €14bn risk to the state there is no alternative but to accept the bill this morning"
Matt Cooper:
"Sinn Fein's Pearse Doherty warns that rushed banking legislation tonight risks repeating the mistakes of the past"
"@JustinTodayFM: TDs have the bill. They've 5 mins to read it before the Dáil sits. #anglo” >> that is nuts. This should take days."
"These are the people who run the country - and we elect them."
Elaine Byrne:
"This is massive: "The common good may require permanent or temp interference with the rights, incl property rights, of persons"
Shane Ross:
"That is it then.The unborn being loaded up with debt incurred by Anglo.God forgive those doing this to get over a political embarrassment"
Really hope this isn't another one of those screw ups we're gonna be hearing about for years...
It's easy picking for sensationalist headlines in the rags for the next few days and a lot of opposition will gladly jump on the government by saying they had no time to properly look at it Wednesday night but if there was going to be no write off of the promissory notes then to my simple mind I presume this was the best thing they could do.
The government isn't working to try and screw the country, if there was a better alternative they would have gone for it, but this must have been the best realistic solution.
So now instead of paying back 3.1billion per annum it will be down to 700 or 800million. If they can show us the benefits of that in the next budget by scrapping the proposed water charges and reversing some of the cuts and with the country now hopefully able to sustain itself better surely this is the best of a bad situation?
I'm no business man or politician so I could be way off the mark but that's what I'm seeing from what I've read so far
The government isn't working to try and screw the country, if there was a better alternative they would have gone for it, but this must have been the best realistic solution.
So now instead of paying back 3.1billion per annum it will be down to 700 or 800million. If they can show us the benefits of that in the next budget by scrapping the proposed water charges and reversing some of the cuts and with the country now hopefully able to sustain itself better surely this is the best of a bad situation?
I'm no business man or politician so I could be way off the mark but that's what I'm seeing from what I've read so far
Without going into detail, you are way off the mark.
According to Vincent Browne on the radio this morning this deal wouldn't mean there will be any of the cuts reversed in the last or previous budgets and it won't make an ounce of difference when it comes to the 2014 budget either, the cuts that were going to be made prior to any deal will still have to be made. Not to sure what will happen after that.
From what i can gather it's just like a lad extending his 3 year car loan to a 10 year car loan, cheaper weekly repayments but he'll pay a lot more than he would have initially on interest etc in the long run. Either way with the blue shirts in power I doubt any deal will make much of a difference to the average joe.
Well on one hand I totally agree but really whats the choice? FG/Labour are just as inept and the country won't ever give SF the nod. But yeah they should be kept our of government for a generation.
I would never waste a vote...so I will be voting independent in the next election. feck the lot of them.
FF will be back in at the next election if they can get a coalition partner. The only question is which party will they go in with. Can't be SF as that would be as ludicrous as the greens going in with them, can't be labour after the slating labour are getting and the slating they have given FF. The only thing that would make sense would be for FF and FG to go in together as they are the only two center right parties in the country and in fairness they should both go together into one large right party and then have a right/left split like every other fecking country. This civil war politics is a load of shite and helps no-one.
Could SF manage to swing a left wing alliance with themselves leading, a lot of independents and Labour depending on how desperate they are after the next election.??
Could SF manage to swing a left wing alliance with themselves leading, a lot of independents and Labour depending on how desperate they are after the next election.??
I don't think there's any chance of a left wing coalition gaining power in the next election. First, the country is too conservative to vote for radical change. Second, the most "acceptable" left wing party in Ireland is Labour, they'll suffer big losses in the next election so not much ground gained there. Third, SF won't gain enough to lead a government until the older generation leaves and the party moves its economic policy towards the centre. Fourth, there will always be a limit on the number of independents elected, I doubt we'll ever have much more than we currently do.
FF will certainly make gains from the huge number of habitual FF voters who abandoned them in the last election. FG will also be okay as Labour will take the brunt of the dissatisfaction with the government, as junior coalition partners tend to do. I doubt FF will gain enough to lead a government as their brand is still toxic. It could also be argued that they'd be better off with another term in opposition anyway as it would give them more time to rebuild. I suspect we'll eventually see a FF/SF coalition but not in the next election, both parties need to undergo further evolution before they're acceptable to each other.
So if i was to make a guess at the moment I'd say the next government will be made up of FG/Labour/Independents. It will be much, much closer than the last election but the lack of realistic alternatives makes me think the electorate will take the safe option and stick with what they have.
FF will certainly make gains from the huge number of habitual FF voters who abandoned them in the last election. FG will also be okay as Labour will take the brunt of the dissatisfaction with the government, as junior coalition partners tend to do. I doubt FF will gain enough to lead a government as their brand is still toxic. It could also be argued that they'd be better off with another term in opposition anyway as it would give them more time to rebuild. I suspect we'll eventually see a FF/SF coalition but not in the next election, both parties need to undergo further evolution before they're acceptable to each other.
So if i was to make a guess at the moment I'd say the next government will be made up of FG/Labour/Independents. It will be much, much closer than the last election but the lack of realistic alternatives makes me think the electorate will take the safe option and stick with what they have.
You're probably right, but I always feel that a right/left coalition is just unworkable as the two parties are too far divided to come up with a cohesive plan for Government. You've seen what the policy of compromise has done to the last two Irish governments and in a bigger scale to NI.
we need a new party
What say you the Caf Party?
What say you the Caf Party?
Great idea, but too many Dubs and Nordies to make any sort of decent policies.
The Manifesto;
1) Subsidised trips to OT for all!!
Yes! I want to form a party!
If you had a party no-one would show up.
p-a-r-t-why? Cos i gotta!
Bertie Ahern mk II.
What did people think of the Healy-Rae's idea of bringing in some sort of a drink driving permit for people living in rural areas? He got a fierce amount of flak for it by the media and opposition politicians etc, I thought it was a good idea myself.
Wasn't Bertie doing this already?
I thought it was a terrible idea. I know that rural loneliness is a problem amongst old people but this isn't the way to solve it. The argument seems to be "If they're not able to have a few pints and drive then they won't be able to see people down the pub and will be lonely". To which the simple argument is: go to the pub but don't drink. I don't like this assumption that there's no way older people can enjoy themselves without drinking, it is possible to have fun sober, especially when the alternative is sitting at home on your own. Or why not have one designated driver amongst the group of friends, alternating every weekend or whatever? Or get the locals to raise money to pay for a minibus, that's what they do at my local.
You might say that these people aren't usually the ones who cause accidents but that's not really the point. There's been a huge shift in attitudes towards drink driving in Ireland in the last 20 years, a shift that has drastically reduced the number of fatalities on the roads. Giving out drink driving permits would be an regressive step. We're supposed to be telling people they should never drink and drive, not that it's okay to drink and drive if it's just more convenient. Anyway, it's wrong to have one rule for one group of people and another for others. The law should be the same for everybody. I really don't see any valid arguments for this idea.
The main thing that bothers me about this notion though is the fact that Healy-Rae was fully aware that there wasn't a hope of his idea being acted on. All he was looking for was some publicity and a bit more support amongst his constituents, a sly piece of politics.
It was a stupid idea that was never more than a stunt from one of the cutest political and business legacies in the country. IMO the drink drive laws in this country are draconian but giving permits for one person to have a different law to someone else isn't the solution. The limit has now gone far too low, and a man should be able to go and have 1-2 pints and not have to worry about losing the license. If someone is drunk then sure feck em, but I could have 2 pints and I'd be sound as a pound.
I'm starting Politics in college next year.
silly fecker
what does it entail - is it more like Irwin was saying, raise the limit to allow or two pints?
He wants some sort of a drink driving permit that would allow people to drive home after two or three pints on the condition that they drive at low speeds and use minor roads. He said his plans would see the Gardaí issuing the permits as they see fit so that not every Tom, Dick or Harry would get one. His motion was brought to the table and passed by Kerry county council and they are supposed to have written to Shatter asking for such permits.
His reasons for this is to combat rural isolation something he thinks is a big reason behind a lot of suicides in the country. A lot of people that lives in the back end of no where will know where he is coming from. A long with immigration hitting villages and towns really hard, pubs closing down all sides, drink driving laws that are way to harsh IMO rural Ireland is well and truly fecked.
Bringing the legal limit down below one pint was a joke.
Permits are not the answer as the boys having 2 or 3 pints that are not the problem; It's the ones that have 5, 6 & 8 pints.
There are no footpaths on those roads so it's dangerous for pedestrians to be on them with drunk drivers about. My 17yr old cousin was killed by one a number of years back so it's all a bit too close to home for me.
Maybe the pubs could do a shuttle bus? Not a taxi, but one running twice a night or so?
There are no footpaths on those roads so it's dangerous for pedestrians to be on them with drunk drivers about. My 17yr old cousin was killed by one a number of years back so it's all a bit too close to home for me.
Maybe the pubs could do a shuttle bus? Not a taxi, but one running twice a night or so?
I want a job in the legal/political sector when I'm older, eventually being a politician, so it's the best course I guess.
You better start saving for your flight.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0208/breaking57.html
I'm not and I don't think anyone is trying to justify having 5-6 pints and heading out in the car, but I can't stop on the way home from work and have ONE pint without breaking the law and risking a giant fine. It's a fecking joke to be honest.
There are more pig farmers than politics grauduates in the Dail.
And therein lies the rub.
“In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.”
The course has modules in Civil/Human rights, Law and shite like that, so I'd be qualified to go high ranking garda etc.
There are more pig farmers than politics grauduates in the Dail.
And therein lies the rub.
I'm sorry, but Fianna Fail are back as the most popular party in the Country? How can the people possibly be that stupid? 2 years ago they were booted out for being absolute shite, so we voted in FG and Labor who have shown us that they're no different, so we vote back in Fianna Fail?
Forget about politics for a second, and realize how retarded that is.
Results.
FF-26
FG-25
SF-18
LB-10
OTHER-21
If you want to be a politician in Ireland you'd be better off being a teacher, a huge amount of our politicians are. The hours, holidays and security of state employment suit those looking for a career in politics. That's also why a higher proportion of our TDs speak Irish in comparison to the general public, they needed their Irish to become a teacher in the first place. I think Michael Martin and Enda Kenny were both teachers, for example.
Too true, apparently the Dail timetable was designed to allow TDs the time they need to tend their farms back when everywhere outside Dublin was a 6 hour drive away. Thus the 2 o clock starting time on Tuesdays and the shorter hours on Fridays.
There are more pig farmers than politics grauduates in the Dail.
And therein lies the rub.
Yeah, a good few are, I've no Irish unfortunately.
It's partially the lefts fault, bickering with eachother constantly.
It's partially the lefts fault, bickering with eachother constantly.
Lack of alternatives are the problem. If you're unhappy with FG/Labour you have to choose between FF, SF and Independents. Begin by excluding independents as they are a relatively small number and have no real power except in Tony Gregory type situations. It's now a choice between FF and SF, two parties with limited appeal at the moment, yet you have to choose one or the other (realistically). FF ruined the country and can't be trusted. SF are still damned by their links to the IRA and are viewed as having large gaps in their economic policies. FF have an advantage though, for two reasons: a) there is a large amount of the population who tended to vote FF out of habit and only abandoned them in the last election. They will naturally return to FF. B) Ireland votes very conservatively, with the majority of voter leaning centre-right. FF is much more of a fit for the country than SF.
I wouldn't worry too much about the polls at the moment though, opposition parties tend to do well in polls during the mid part of a governments life span, as a kind of sign of dissatisfaction with the government. Then the government parties do better coming up to the election as voters look at the opposition properly and decide they'd sooner stick with what they know. FG/Labour will improve their position in the run up to the election and will draw a lot of voters currently indicating for the opposition. This should have a bigger impact on FF as they are much more similar to FG/Labour in pretty much every way.
Fianna Fail
Fine Gael
Sinn Fein
Labour
The Socialist Party
The Socialist Workers Party
The Workers Party
Eirigi
The Green Party
The Communist Party of Ireland
The Christian Democrats
Christian Solidarity Party
Fís Nua
Independents
Are all registered, none have any realistic hope other then the top 4.
If SWP,SP,WP,Comms and some independents came together, they could do some good.
Fine Gael
Sinn Fein
Labour
The Socialist Party
The Socialist Workers Party
The Workers Party
Eirigi
The Green Party
The Communist Party of Ireland
The Christian Democrats
Christian Solidarity Party
Fís Nua
Independents
Are all registered, none have any realistic hope other then the top 4.
If SWP,SP,WP,Comms and some independents came together, they could do some good.
The Christian Solidarity Party...they sound all sorts of wonderful.
Great bunch of lads, I hate them. They're registered so me being impartial I had to put them in.
If there was more pig farmers in the Dail all along the country might not be in such a mess. More Healy-Rae type politicians is whats needed and less teachers and so called accountants.
There are more pig farmers than politics grauduates in the Dail.
And therein lies the rub.