Is attack really meant to be a massive strength of ours?

[Dominos]

Number of goals	Number of games	Percentage games
0	5	24%
1	6	29%
2	3	14%
3	5	24%
4+	2	10%
	21

The narrative on here seems to be that we're fantastic going forward and the defence lets us down.

In the league this season we've failed to score a goal on 5 different occasions, and scored one goal on 6 occasions.

We scored 66 league goals last season. This season we're on course for... 67 - I was hoping for a bit more improvement than this.

Whilst our defensive record has definitely been bad - judging by the stats - do we have major problems at both ends of the pitch?


Edit at the end of the season:

Number of goals	Number of games	Percentage games
0	8	21%
1	10	26%
2	7	18%
3	10	26%
4+	3	8%
	38

Updated table to end the season. The obvious thing that stands out is 8 games played where we failed to score a goal. A title winning team is very unlikely to go 8 games without scoring a goal, so it's something we need to improve upon. Tying it together we observation from watching our games, we still massively struggle breaking down teams in a low block.

We scored 73 league goals total. In comparison the last 5 champions of the PL have scored 83, 85, 95, 106 and 85 (average of 90). This confirms my suspicions that our attacking prowess seems to have been completely overblown by this forum and pundits alike. We're comparing our attack to the worst of United teams under Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho, and not of genuinely top teams.

 

[MikeKing]

Considering our midfield is trash it's a miracle we're not bottom of the league.

 

[Judas]

We are creatively very poor, so many positions that are key to chance creation are neglected.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Considering our midfield is trash it's a miracle we're not bottom of the league.

Yeah, we've only got two of the best players in the world playing in midfield, trash.
Look at Leicester's midfield or Liverpool's, with Henderson and Fabinho playing as centre backs for the whole season.

 

[spiriticon]

Not this season.

Mason, Marcus and Martial are a massive THUMBS DOWN.

 

[MikeKing]

Yeah, we've only got two of the best players in the world playing in midfield, trash.
Look at Leicester's midfield or Liverpool's, with Henderson and Fabinho playing as centre backs for the whole season.

I was joking. At times our attack is great. Right now we're struggling in attack but our structure gives us some consistency, we're second place and picking up points. No need to be dramatic is my honest opinion.

 

[Superunknown]

A great cause for concern is that Martial, Rashford and Greenwood seem to not have their positions nailed down. We're not getting the most out of them at the moment and we're not maximising their potential. It doesn't help that all three are in shit form, but their positions are not defined and we don't look close to deciding where their best positions are. Rashford seems to play all over the place and, as a result, his quality is all over the place.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We don’t create much. A lot of our goals are through individual magic or opposition mistakes. It’s very rare that we carve a team open. Cavani should have scored today though. If anyone watched him at PSG you’ll know how frustrating his finishing can be.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I was joking. At times our attack is great. Right now we're struggling in attack but our structure gives us some consistency, we're second place and picking up points. No need to be dramatic is my honest opinion.

Ah ok..
But we are 3rd if Leicester win tomorrow. Mind you they have lost Vardy now.

 

[hellhunter]

Only one team scored more goals than us this season.

 

[Edy2]

Traditionally it was but certainly hasn't been for the past 8 or so years!

 

[Plymouth Red]

Number of goals	Number of games	Percentage games
0	5	24%
1	6	29%
2	3	14%
3	5	24%
4+	2	10%
	21

The narrative on here seems to be that we're fantastic going forward and the defence lets us down.

In the league this season we've failed to score a goal on 5 different occasions, and scored one goal on 6 occasions.

We scored 66 league goals last season. This season we're on course for... 67 - I was hoping for a bit more improvement than this.

Judging by the stats - do we have major problems at both ends of the pitch?

We would be under less pressure in defence if Rashford, Martial and Greenwood put in the sort of effort Cavani and Bruno put in pressing the opposition and chasing back.

Even though they each have produced moments of magic and scored great goals, I see this trio as the current cause of our difficulties on the pitch.

The defence and midfield can have issues but if we were scoring more the entire team would raise its game and quality of play, rather than having to claw back results.

 

[Ali Dia]

We have no creativity from the wings. Martial and Rashford both are strikers playing on the wing. It’s like when Fergie used to throw on 3/4 strikers when we were chasing a game. Our forwards are getting in each other’s way instead of creating for each other. Their play isn’t near creative enough. If they can’t pass it right though the middle they’ve got nothing else. Combination play with the full back non existent.

 

[el3mel]

I don't really know what our main strength is as a team. Both offense and defense have lots of problems yet we're 2nd in the table.

Probably guts and mentality to comeback from losing position is our main strength or something.

 

[Tom Cato]

Well currently we and City have scored 37 and Liverpool are sitting at 40.

So I guess every team is garbage this season going forward.

That being said: We are lacking some serious contribution from Martial on the scoring sheet. He's nettet TWO goals this season. That is legitimately astonishing.

 

[Solius]

It's just inconsistency really. All of our attackers have shown in spells that they can be ruthless, but it seems to be missing from them all at the moment.

 

[dove]

Considering our midfield is trash it's a miracle we're not bottom of the league.

It's not trash but we pick wrong players or like in todays case, we thought that more forwards means more goals and we don't need a midfield.

 

[MadDogg]

Who says that our attack has been a strength this season? Martial, Rashford and Greenwood have been poor pretty much all season, and even Bruno was decent earlier in the season but has been quite poor for a while now. Thankfully both Rashford and Bruno have gotten more goals and assists than their performance levels have probably deserved, but they've both been finding it difficult recently as well. It's amazing that we're so high in the table with our entire attack misfiring all season.

The question is why are all of our attackers struggling so much when they were all good last season? Is it just coincidence? Is it how we're setting up tactically? Is it poor man-management? Is it a lack of depth allowing them to become stale because they don't have competition?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Well currently we and City have scored 37 and Liverpool are sitting at 40.

So I guess every team is garbage this season going forward.

That being said: We are lacking some serious contribution from Martial on the scoring sheet. He's nettet TWO goals this season. That is legitimately astonishing.

Difference with City is they have a high number of clean sheets. So it appears they score more than us. There are still issues with our team at both ends. You have a water tight defence it makes things easier.

 

[Tom Cato]

Difference with City is they have a high number of clean sheets. So it appears they score more than us. There are still issues with our team at both ends. You have a water tight defence it makes things easier.

Defense is the big dissapointment this season. That we're not able to build on the amazing success of last years campaign when we kept the most clean sheets in Europe is a big dissapointment that the players need to figure out.

We've kept clean sheets againt Liverpool, Man City, Liverpool etc. But we let in goals against lower tier clubs and that is just impossibly frustrating

 

[youmeletsfly]

Considering we don't have a 25 goal per season striker since 2013, no, feck no.

 

[siw2007]

One of the main issues is the constant chopping and changing of the team. Rotation is important but there is no real consistency in our approach and the players roles. Some days Rashford plays left then he might play right, Martial sometimes plays down the middle, sometimes plays left. I think the lack of consistency in their positions and roles is having a negative impact on their performance levels.

Some of this is down to the lack of balance in our options in attacking positions, mainly the right. We keep trying different players on the right but hasn’t really worked. If/when we can solve this problem there will be less inconsistency in our experimenting with players.

We also lack an out and out goalscorer. Rashford is very good but he isn’t it. If we had an out and out striker then obviously we would be scoring more goals.

 

[pocco]

Only one team scored more goals than us this season.

We've played more games though.

 

[drunkmonkmeth]

We can only play counter attacking football.. which is so easy for other sides to prevent if they don't play naïve. You could be genuinely one of the worst teams in the league but if you sit deep and defend with a decent shape we struggle massively. it comes down to individual brilliance, a set piece or a pen for us to win these games. Our players have no instruction when the opponent defends deep. you can see it with how disjoined our play and forwards seem.. no one knows what to expect from anyone else. no one is making space with movement or runs.. and if they do no one else is expecting them to do it. Most of the time we dont have anyone to cross a ball into.. and again we seem to not want to. it doesnt help that our forwards are in terrible form either so that individual brilliance isn't coming. ole and staff seem to be just sending these guys out to make it happen for themselves.. when you look at the real top sides with top coaches. they breakdown teams like this easily most match days. not because they have individual brilliance but because their coach tells them how he wants them to do it and how to play. when to make that run and what to do when you see your teammate making the space or driving into it.

Our best performances this season were completely naive performances from our opponents. Redbull though they could play their usually brand of all out attack and high line vs us and paid for it. The second time around they knew better, won and exposed our weaknesses within minutes. Leeds is all about playing attacking entertaining football. they dont adjust for anyone so we thrashed them. teams are adjusting for us and its easy to adjust for a team that has one trick.

To make matters worse though we arent even counter attacking well.. everything breaks down in the final third.. our front 3 shoot when they should pass and passes when they should shoot. if not that then they run into blind alleys and lose the ball.


our defense isn't incredible but our attack is and has been much worse for a long time. if we actually knew how to attack and play attacking football we wouldnt be putting so much pressure on our defensive line. i believe we have the squad to play better football and different brands of football when needed but not the coaching staff or manager. Ole has done well but he just isnt good enough.

 

[Ekeke]

I mean obviously yes, we have scored the joint 2nd highest amount of goals in the league just 3 less than the highest which is Liverpool

 

[Withnail]

Number of goals	Number of games	Percentage games
0	5	24%
1	6	29%
2	3	14%
3	5	24%
4+	2	10%
	21

The narrative on here seems to be that we're fantastic going forward and the defence lets us down.

In the league this season we've failed to score a goal on 5 different occasions, and scored one goal on 6 occasions.

We scored 66 league goals last season. This season we're on course for... 67 - I was hoping for a bit more improvement than this.

Judging by the stats - do we have major problems at both ends of the pitch?

What's your table supposed to display?

We're second only to Liverpool in goals scored.

Premier league must be the worst league for attacking in the world.

 

[Bastian]

Take Bruno out of this side and we're pretty easy to set up against. I wonder where we'd be without Bruno. He was very quiet tonight, an orchestra without a conductor.

The playing out from the back is slow and laboured, not having bona fide wide players makes us very predictable, as does the slow tempo and lack of crisp passing. We have good attacking players, we just rarely have good attacking play. And of course, not the balance. Though it has to be said our collective defending has been the worst part about our season.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

1 we do need to freshen things up. 2 just as importantly we need to sort out the damn right wing of ours.

We need to quicken the passing up at times and VdB has to come in and do it at the expense of a 'star name' for the sake of team progress.

Martial needs to fcuk off to a different league where he will plan wiwo and with easier defences.

 

[Dominos]

What's your table supposed to display?

We're second only to Liverpool in goals scored.

Premier league must be the worst league for attacking in the world.

It's meant to give people some context for the thread so we can discuss. Is this not a discussion forum?

As I said, we're on course for 67 goals scored and have drawn 5 blanks already. Is this a good return? It might be. I'm asking the question. It looks like we haven't improved from last season and Liverpool/City have let their standards drop dramatically which makes our return look somewhat passable.

I'm not sure I buy that the sole barometer of judging performance is within the context of an individual season. In the context of wanting to become a great team, 66 goals last season was a very poor return given the numbers Liverpool and City put up - but now it's suddenly a really good return and our attack is electric because Liverpool and City have declined? The idea that the exact same attacking performance can be considered dismal in 1 season and then fantastic in the next doesn't quite sit right with me - there surely needs to be some wider context?

 

[VeevaVee]

We genuinely don’t have 2/3 of an attack at the moment. We desperately need to buy

 

[Dominos]

I mean obviously yes, we have scored the joint 2nd highest amount of goals in the league just 3 less than the highest which is Liverpool

If someone told you before the start of the season that after 21 games we'd be on course for 67 goals and failed to score in 5 games, would you have thought that was a good return?

For reference, are City fans on their forum lauding how good their attack has been this season? Or are they disappointed? I'm willing to bet they're a tad disappointed. And they have underperformed their XG this season, whereas we have slightly overpeformed.

 

[dcrompton]

We‘ve scored 37, same as City but they‘ve conceded 13 to our 27! The constant going behind was always going to catch us out as it did with Sheffield United. I think they have only scored twice in 2 games this season, both against us! League titles are won on defences and ours is very average

 

[Gordon S]

We are definitely struggling for goals atm, but i think we are creating enough chances and scoring enough to be in the mix if we are looking at all 21 games so far. Sadly our defence is not quite as good as we need to. 27 goals conceded so far is a bit shit.

 

[Withnail]

It's meant to give people some context for the thread so we can discuss. Is this not a discussion forum?

As I said, we're on course for 67 goals scored and have drawn 5 blanks already. Is this a good return? It might be. I'm asking the question. It looks like we haven't improved from last season and Liverpool/City have let their standards drop dramatically which makes our return look somewhat passable.

I'm not sure I buy that the sole barometer of judging performance is within the context of an individual season. In the context of wanting to become a great team, 66 goals last season was a very poor return given the numbers Liverpool and City put up - but now it's suddenly a really good return and our attack is electric because Liverpool and City have declined? The idea that the exact same attacking performance can be considered dismal in 1 season and then fantastic in the next doesn't quite sit right with me - there surely needs to be some wider context?

We're doing better results wise than last year and yes we can do damage to anyone when in the mood but no we're not consistently amazing at attacking.

I mean Liverpool are having a bad year and have scored more goals than us and are 4 pts off us with a game in hand.

I'm not sure anyone is claiming we're brilliant at attacking, seeing as none of our attackers are really firing, are they?

 

[Ekeke]

If someone told you before the start of the season that after 21 games we'd be on course for 67 goals and failed to score in 5 games, would you have thought that was a good return?

For reference, are City fans on their forum lauding how good their attack has been this season? Or are they disappointed? I'm willing to bet they're a tad disappointed. And they have underperformed their XG this season, whereas we have slightly overpeformed.

Yes very happy to be half way to a 20+ goalscorer (Bruno) and 14/15 for Rashford

 

[Dan_F]

We genuinely don’t have 2/3 of an attack at the moment. We desperately need to buy

I don’t see it. You can’t tell me the likes of Mahrez, Jesus, Sterling, Torres is at a massively higher level in individual quality than Rashford, Cavani, Bruno, Pogba - I’ll leave Martial out, although he’s shown in the past that he can play at a high level.

Would you really say player quality is the reason we lost to Sheffield United or Istanbul in the Champions League?

Unfortunately I’m not even sure I’d trust us to find the right replacements, as I don’t think we know what we want, or how we want to play. There’s question marks over two of Ole’s biggest signings in AWB and Maguire.

 

[noodlehair]

We're playing our top scoring forward out of position, in order to play him in a position he never scores or plays well from, and then instead of moving him back when he plays badly, we sub him off...and then we're playing a midfielder on the left in his place.

We keep bringing Martial back into the team despite the fact he's offered nothing at this point to justify being selected ahead of anyone in our U18 side.

I think our attack is generally fine and we have enough options to cope with poor form. We have 8 players we can use in our front 3 and then Fernandes or Pogba who can play behind them. The problem is coming in the form of staggeringly stupid and destructive team management. A semi competent manager would be getting results out of our front players quite easily because there's more than enough ability there.

Not that Ole isn't very competent in other areas but his game and line up management is extremely concerning. It's surpassing some of Jose's nonsense when he was basically trying to get himself sacked.

 

[Dominos]

I don’t see it. You can’t tell me the likes of Mahrez, Jesus, Sterling, Torres is at a massively higher level in individual quality than Rashford, Cavani, Bruno, Pogba - I’ll leave Martial out, although he’s shown in the past that he can play at a high level.

Would you really say player quality is the reason we lost to Sheffield United or Istanbul in the Champions League?

Unfortunately I’m not even sure I’d trust us to find the right replacements, as I don’t think we know what we want, or how we want to play. There’s question marks over two of Ole’s biggest signings in AWB and Maguire.

Really we're looking at the front 3.

For the main striker and 2 wide positions - the first problem we have is there are 4 viable first team options in Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and Cavani. The rest are just not up to standard to truely compete for places. For 3 positions really you would want 6 viable first team options, so there's a lack of quality in depth there whereby we're having to play massively out of form players because the alternative is Dan James who is mostly a waste of a selection when he plays.

The 2nd problem is our wide players are more reminiscent of strikers playing out wide and we have no one who provides anything different. A quality wide player who is more about dribbling and creativity would make a big difference in this team, and hopefully this would help solve the issue we have against teams who sit back in a low block.

 

[VeevaVee]

I don’t see it. You can’t tell me the likes of Mahrez, Jesus, Sterling, Torres is at a massively higher level in individual quality than Rashford, Cavani, Bruno, Pogba - I’ll leave Martial out, although he’s shown in the past that he can play at a high level.

Rashford and Martial are both completely ineffective. That’s 2/3 of the forward line. Greenwood can improve it, but we can’t rely on him right now.

 

[Dominos]

We're playing our top scoring forward out of position, in order to play him in a position he never scores or plays well from, and then instead of moving him back when he plays badly, we sub him off...and then we're playing a midfielder on the left in his place.

We keep bringing Martial back into the team despite the fact he's offered nothing at this point to justify being selected ahead of anyone in our U18 side.

I think our attack is generally fine and we have enough options to cope with poor form. We have 8 players we can use in our front 3 and then Fernandes or Pogba who can play behind them. The problem is coming in the form of staggeringly stupid and destructive team management. A semi competent manager would be getting results out of our front players quite easily because there's more than enough ability there.

Not that Ole isn't very competent in other areas but his game and line up management is extremely concerning. It's surpassing some of Jose's nonsense when he was basically trying to get himself sacked.

Playing Rashford on the right is unforgiveable I agree.

However there's still a quality in depth issue. We don't have 8 genuine options for the front 3 - we have Rashford, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood. No one else is trusted as first team quality so there is very little competition.

Greenwood is our only player who has ever shown they can be effective from the right also. And he's a kid who's been out of form for most of the season. And there's a debate over whether the right is even his position. So that's another issue.

33 year old Cavani is not likely to be a long or medium term solution as our main striker either.