Is it time to settle to a 352?

3-5-2 will only work when Rojo is fit. We don't have a natural LWB (Blind's too slow, Young's right-footed and Mourinho hates Shaw), so for balance I think we'd need a left-footed LCB, and I'd rather not use Blind there long-term.

--------------DDG
-------Jones-Bailly-Rojo
Valencia---------------Young
----------Pogba-Matic
--------------Mkhi
-------Rashford-Lukaku

Few extras. Once/if Lindelöf comes good, I'd expect him to take up the centre centre-back role, with Bailly going to the right and Jones out the side. Lindelöf is best suited to that role naturally, looking at Luiz at Chelsea and Stones at City (when they played a back 3 earlier in the season), the player in that position needs to be good on the ball. Also, for big games, especially away from home, if we were to play this formation I'd expect Mkhi or Rashford to come out, and Herrera or Fellaini to come in.
 
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ToToMarshall said:
3-5-2 will only work when Rojo is fit. We don't have a natural LWB (Blind's too slow, Young's right-footed and Mourinho hates Shaw), so for balance I think we'd need a left-footed LCB, and I'd rather not use Blind there long-term.

--------------DDG
-------Jones-Bailly-Rojo
Valencia---------------Young
----------Pogba-Matic
--------------Mkhi
-------Rashford-Lukaku

Few extras. Once/if Lindelöf comes good, I'd expect him to take up the centre centre-back role, with Bailly going to the right and Jones out the side. Lindelöf is best suited to that role naturally, looking at Luiz at Chelsea and Stones at City (when they played a back 3 earlier in the season), the player in that position needs to be good on the ball. Also, for big games, especially away from home, if we were to play this formation I'd expect Mkhi or Rashford to come out, and Herrera or Fellaini to come in.
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Jones always plays on the left of Bailly, the same for Rashford regarding Lukaku.
 
Android1974 said:
Jones always plays on the left of Bailly, the same for Rashford regarding Lukaku.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't play Jones as an LCB though, not when Rojo is fit anyway, and I think Bailly's better on the ball, the central CB is typically your best ball-playing defender.

As for the strikers I didn't pay much attention to the positions I put them in, but you're right.
 
ToToMarshall said:
You wouldn't play Jones as an LCB though, not when Rojo is fit anyway, and I think Bailly's better on the ball, the central CB is typically your best ball-playing defender.

As for the strikers I didn't pay much attention to the positions I put them in, but you're right.
Click to expand...

This is what I been saying but for no legitimate reason I doubt José will ever give a chance for Blind to play there. He would be down right world class playing in his best position aswell as being protected by two centrebacks behind him.
 
Home&Away said:
This is what I been saying but for no legitimate reason I doubt José will ever give a chance for Blind to play there. He would be down right world class playing in his best position aswell as being protected by two centrebacks behind him.
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Jose when he does it has often opted to put Smalling central. I would fundamentally agree your best ball playing CB goes there. However I think Jose puts Smalling in there as he isn’t as aggressive and is the better sweeper than all the rest as they are quite aggressive and he’ll often tend to drop and cover them. Hence central so he can cover both.
 
ToToMarshall said:
You wouldn't play Jones as an LCB though, not when Rojo is fit anyway, and I think Bailly's better on the ball, the central CB is typically your best ball-playing defender.

As for the strikers I didn't pay much attention to the positions I put them in, but you're right.
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You wouldn't, but the question is Mourinho would, since he doesn't seem to follow at all that rule of the best ball playing centerback being on the center, on the contrary, his criteria seems a totally different one.

And, for instance, with three in the back, Jones played leftcenter of Smalling on the center with Middlesbrough (away), and he actually almost always plays left of Smalling, be it in a two man defense. If Rojo's available, sure, Jones might be pushed to the rightcenter, although there's Bailly in there. I can only remember one time Smalling played on the rightcenter with Jones center, it was our first friendly with LA Galaxy.
 
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I disagree with the last bit,I think it's a bit pointless to say that this is the formation that we should play for the foreseeable future and if the manager doesn't play this,then he should get out.But I think the OP makes a strong point,3-5-2 seems to be perfect for us.We can play 3 out of our 5 centre backs,Valencia,Young,Darmian,Shaw and Blind can/have played as wingbacks,Pogba can play in his best position and we can play 2 out and out strikers....It ticks a lot of boxes for me and I think Jose needs to seriously consider this option....
 
So,back 3 today?Or is he going to play Jones in midfield?I think it's a back 3,I hope so anyway because Rashford and Lukaku can trouble them if they play as a 2....
 
Going back 3 then I think Blind should always be playing. His passing on the ball is miles better than our other CBs, he reads the game well and his physical weaknesses will be compensated by those around him.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Going back 3 then I think Blind should always be playing. His passing on the ball is miles better than our other CBs, he reads the game well and his physical weaknesses will be compensated by those around him.
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This is what makes 3 at the back overly defensive - bit disappointed.
 
3-5-2 should be an option, not the formation we always use. As a team we shouldn't limit ourselves to one formation, it all depends on available players, who we play against, e.t.c. It is a good option for certain scenarios. Mourinho is a tactically flexible manager, so we will no doubt see it used from time to time.

It also does not have to be a defensive setup, it can be quite attacking. One formation isn't more attacking than another just because it is, it all depends on instructions and how the manager sets the team up in different phases of the game. Formations is a very simplistic tool for trying to understand how a team will play.
 
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SverreB said:
3-5-2 should be an option, not the formation we always use. As a team we shouldn't limit ourselves to one formation, it all depends on available players, who we play against, e.t.c. It is a good option for certain scenarios. Mourinho is a tactically flexible manager, so we will no doubt see it used from time to time.

It also does not have to be a defensive setup, it can be quite attacking. One formation isn't more attacking than another just because it is, it all depends on instructions and how the manager sets the team up in different phases of the game. Formations is a very simplistic tool for trying to understand how a team will play.
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It's not limiting ourselves to one formation - there should be a formation we are comfortable at.

Bayern, Barcelona, and the other teams at the top have one formation that they are strong at & can rely on.

4231 hasn't been impressive
 
José doesn't have the guts to play a proper 352.

Look at spurs; Dier is making runs up to the strikers when there is space whilst we were playing 3 sweepers.
 
Home&Away said:
José doesn't have the guts to play a proper 352.

Look at spurs; Dier is making runs up to the strikers when there is space whilst we were playing 3 sweepers.
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What nonsense.
 
352 is a great formation but you need specific players for that. You can't play it with 3 trees in defence. At least one must be good on the ball so blind must play. Also you need playmaker in midfield so matic and herrera can't play at the same time. Yes with pogba and blind it could work
 
We don't have the fullbacks for it
We don't have the central defenders for it
We don't have the midfield for it.

So yes, we should definitely have 3-5-2 as our formation of choice.
 
Bubz27 said:
What nonsense.
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Yeah nice reply - 352 needs a ball playing defender or someone that joins the midfield like Dier is doing.

You need to realise you are seeking nonsense. 352 is united'S formation since LVG has been here. All the time it's nonsense to the likes of you.

Look - pay attention to when the ball comes to our defenders; where is it going - is it going forward to our attack or along the line of our defenders.

Utter nonsense by someone who knows very little about 352.
 
Home&Away said:
It's not limiting ourselves to one formation - there should be a formation we are comfortable at.

Bayern, Barcelona, and the other teams at the top have one formation that they are strong at & can rely on.

4231 hasn't been impressive
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I don't see why we can't have a couple of formations we can be good at? That can only be a good thing, as long as we understand them well. I agree that ideally we would have one strong first choice system like the teams you metioned, and we arguably do. The 4-2-3-1 with a full squad has served us well this season in my opinion, but has faltered without the likes of Pogba and arguably Fellaini.
 
MDFC Manager said:
We don't have the fullbacks for it
We don't have the central defenders for it
We don't have the midfield for it.

So yes, we should definitely have 3-5-2 as our formation of choice.
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We have the defenders for it; we have the wing backs for it compared to fullbacks. Midfield is down to injuries coupled with the fact that additional defenders will help the low cast midfield; but José needs to play the right CB's.
 
MDFC Manager said:
We don't have the fullbacks for it
We don't have the central defenders for it
We don't have the midfield for it.

So yes, we should definitely have 3-5-2 as our formation of choice.
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We have blind and rojo for that. We have valencia and young who are exactly for that. We have great midfield for that in matic, pogba and mikhi or mata. We have combo of strikers for that. One strong and one pacey.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
We have blind and rojo for that. We have valencia and young who are exactly for that. We have great midfield for that in matic, pogba and mikhi or mata. We have combo of strikers for that. One strong and one pacey.
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Exactly. Blind needs to play but this overly defensive line up with 3 sweepers. Very poor management.
 
Home&Away said:
Yeah nice reply - 352 needs a ball playing defender or someone that joins the midfield like Dier is doing.

You need to realise you are seeking nonsense. 352 is united'S formation since LVG has been here. All the time it's nonsense to the likes of you.

Look - pay attention to when the ball comes to our defenders; where is it going - is it going forward to our attack or along the line of our defenders.

Utter nonsense by someone who knows very little about 352.
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You have no idea about Jose's guts. No need to personally attack the manager about it.

And don't assume what I do or don't know about 352. I see the problem you talk about and acknowledge it. To attack Jose about it is the nonsense.

Talks about my "nice reply" and then personally insults me in his own post. Good work. Are you one of those studiers of football who knows better then the little old average fan like me?
 
Bubz27 said:
You have no idea about Jose's guts. No need to personally attack the manager about it.

And don't assume what I do or don't know about 352. I see the problem you talk about and acknowledge it. To attack Jose about it is the nonsense.

Talks about my "nice reply" and then personally insults me in his own post. Good work. Are you one of those studiers of football who knows better then the little old average fan like me?
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I think anyone who has been mildly following his career so far can make a pretty decent guess.
 
ToToMarshall said:
3-5-2 will only work when Rojo is fit. We don't have a natural LWB (Blind's too slow, Young's right-footed and Mourinho hates Shaw), so for balance I think we'd need a left-footed LCB, and I'd rather not use Blind there long-term.

--------------DDG
-------Jones-Bailly-Rojo
Valencia---------------Young
----------Pogba-Matic
--------------Mkhi
-------Rashford-Lukaku

Few extras. Once/if Lindelöf comes good, I'd expect him to take up the centre centre-back role, with Bailly going to the right and Jones out the side. Lindelöf is best suited to that role naturally, looking at Luiz at Chelsea and Stones at City (when they played a back 3 earlier in the season), the player in that position needs to be good on the ball. Also, for big games, especially away from home, if we were to play this formation I'd expect Mkhi or Rashford to come out, and Herrera or Fellaini to come in.
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with who the 3 centre backs are. It's to do with can we actually make any sort of chances or look vaguely threatening.
So far today we don't at all.
 
Bubz27 said:
You have no idea about Jose's guts. No need to personally attack the manager about it.

And don't assume what I do or don't know about 352. I see the problem you talk about and acknowledge it. To attack Jose about it is the nonsense.

Talks about my "nice reply" and then personally insults me in his own post. Good work. Are you one of those studiers of football who knows better then the little old average fan like me?
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No - I did know that 352 will come midway through the season - it is something I have studied alot since I have studied LVG and this formation for 3 years.

A) we need a ball playing CB Ie preferably blind but Lindelof will do
B) we need a AM who gets past the front 2 Ie not mkhitaryan

Sorry to take it out on you but to be this close to what I personally think is a perfect balance between technical, pressing, possession is really annoying.

I ask you this though;

Ppchetinoo is talked about as being our next manager by some; who would he play at middle CB?
 
Skills said:
I think anyone who has been mildly following his career so far can make a pretty decent guess.
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Just because he doesn't play the style you, me or a lot others prefer and like, doesn't mean he doesn't have guts.

People could say him living away from his wife while she had emergency operations took guts. Or going to maybe the best team ever, with 10 men after a short while, and walking out victorious took guts.
 
The formation,tactics,intensity,everything's spot on,but we unfortunately lack quality in the middle to open them up.9 out of 11 are looking sharp today,Herreras just not good enough even though he's trying hard and Mikhitaryans having another shocker.Just put Pogba in this team and we"ll be fine....We can't take Herrera off,but I would take Mikhitaryan off immediately.Bring on Mata or Lingard for Mikhitaryan Jose....
 
De gea
Bailey blind Jones
Valencia young
Matic herrera
Martial
Lukaku rashford
 
i think the problem is Lukaku and Rashford are too similar , the both want the ball over the top. They would work well with zlatan or Martial who like coming a bit deep
 
It’s not about but playing Blind it’s about instructions.

Jones has always been comfortable carrying the ball out of defence, but looks as though he’s been instructed not to take any risks.

We’re much more suited to a 352 in these big games than we are a 4231.
 
Home&Away said:
No - I did know that 352 will come midway through the season - it is something I have studied alot since I have studied LVG and this formation for 3 years.

A) we need a ball playing CB Ie preferably blind but Lindelof will do
B) we need a AM who gets past the front 2 Ie not mkhitaryan

Sorry to take it out on you but to be this close to what I personally think is a perfect balance between technical, pressing, possession is really annoying.

I ask you this though;

Ppchetinoo is talked about as being our next manager by some; who would he play at middle CB?
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You're misunderstanding me. I agree with you about the 352 sentiment. I thought it was silly you talking about Jose's guts.

In our squad I see 3 people who can play that role you talk about in the 3. Rojo isn't fit, and even when he is I think he plays LCB. Blind can do it, but there's no chance Jose plays him as a CB, and I'm totally fine with that.

The last is Lindelof. I watched him a fair amount last year and he definitely has the ability to play that role. He has shown he can 'play' with the ball and can be quite composed. Doubly so with 2 settled CBs next to him. However he has no confidence at the moment, so I'm fine right now with him not playing in a game like this.
 
Will I still get laughed at for talking about LVG's foundations? José needs to give up on his 4321 tactics and continue what LVG started.

Been saying it all along; clubs never switch from LVG formations for up to 10 years.

Hopefully José gives this ago & buys the right players now to put his own twist on united's ingrained philosophy.
 
Home&Away said:
Yeah nice reply - 352 needs a ball playing defender or someone that joins the midfield like Dier is doing.

You need to realise you are seeking nonsense. 352 is united'S formation since LVG has been here. All the time it's nonsense to the likes of you.

Look - pay attention to when the ball comes to our defenders; where is it going - is it going forward to our attack or along the line of our defenders.

Utter nonsense by someone who knows very little about 352.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that?

I don't know for sure but i would guess we have used a back 4 way more in that time period.
 
Home&Away said:
Will I still get laughed at for talking about LVG's foundations? José needs to give up on his 4321 tactics and continue what LVG started.

Been saying it all along; clubs never switch from LVG formations for up to 10 years.

Hopefully José gives this ago & buys the right players now to put his own twist on united's ingrained philosophy.
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Ingrained philosophy, what after two years of LVG?

We lined up with 3 at the back because we have two fit midfielders. What we need is another midfielder who can play alongside Pogba with Matic behind them. And then we don't need to play 3 at the back because our midfield will dominate most others.
 
stevoc said:
What do you mean by that?

I don't know for sure but i would guess we have used a back 4 way more in that time period.
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We started with 352, turned to 433 because we didn't have the right players by the end of his second season we had two new strikers in rashford & Martial, an attacking midfielder who can make runs past the attack line in lingard, a ball playing defender that can join the CDM in blind even wingbacks like valencia, Young & even CBJ (who I think can still have an impact at lwb) LCB in rojo etc.

There is no way that he would have stuck with lingard at RW rashford at St and martial at LW. 352 is what he was building.
 
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