When he first came in it looked like he had a game plan but for some reason he has abandoned it. We got some injuries he changed his approach, started trying different things, now seems completely without direction and hasn't settled back into what he was doing to start with.
Is it wrong to expect a Manchester United manager to coach his team?
- Thread starter Skills
- Start date
He doesn't seem to understand that our players do not know what to do when we Have the ball.
It's easy to get it back but once you get it then how to use it positively is the bigger problem.
It's easy to get it back but once you get it then how to use it positively is the bigger problem.
The squad is so thin that he's almost not got any leeway for a carrot and stick approach. And I don't think it's realistic to ask the virtually untested youngsters to play two games per week. If he was concerned with our transfer activity in the summer he should have been more political about it, but he put on a brave face so he has to own it. Maybe he even thought it was all going to pan out great.
In fairness to other managers, Pep is afforded the luxury of buying a player, him not working out, so he can go buy a new one instead. We buy the wrong player (as we almost always do) and we tie him down to a mega deal once they've proved not to be good enough
He's made a rod for his own back with the transfers. Even without bringing people in I'm sure he could have put his foot down over letting someone like Sanchez go.The squad is so thin that he's almost not got any leeway for a carrot and stick approach. And I don't think it's realistic to ask the virtually untested youngsters to play two games per week. If he was concerned with our transfer activity in the summer he should have been more political about it, but he put on a brave face so he has to own it. Maybe he even thought it was all going to pan out great.
In fairness to other managers, Pep is afforded the luxury of buying a player, him not working out, so he can go buy a new one instead. We buy the wrong player (as we almost always do) and we tie him down to a mega deal once they've proved not to be good enough
He does have options though. Pereira and Fred can both play where Matic was for example. Neither are as comfortable in possession, but it's pointless selecting the best suited player for a role if they have no job they're required to do when they're on the pitch. They will just do what they want. If you put Pereira there you know he will do what you ask him to, so the option is there to make an example and start setting a standard you expect from anyone else you pick there.
As we find out time and again in these games, a player doing their job to an average level on the opposition team trumps one of our players not bothering to do it at all, so when we persist with It, it's not just on the players. Not when the management make no visible attempt to do anything about it.
To be honest, I dont think Klopp or Pep could get Matic, mctominay, Pereira and Mata with James and Rashford as the 2 more attacking players play with any creativity or control... so I'm not going to sit here and criticize Ole for losing to West Ham when that's just the reality of our squad. Their attack was plain better than ours yesterday on paper, which is a bit crazy to see but it's the reality of our squad. Martial and Pogba out injured and our midfield and attack is pretty much 10th place level, so can we expect shit to play like top players? Until we sign more quality in midfield/attack and some depth (or youth players step up and become more important players), this will be the problem for us regardless of manager. Sir Alex would be the only guy who could get a lineup like yesterday to still win somewhat consistently.
And we also should realize that the lineup yesterday played Leicester first and then West Ham, winning one and losing one. That's probably how you'd expect things to go. Good defence, no midfield or attack leading to hoping you keep a clean sheet and you take the 1 or 2 chances that come your way. Worked vs Leicester, didnt vs West Ham. We aren't capable if outplaying decent sides if we don't have Martial and Pogba in the starting 11. That's the reality of our squad right now, and I dont think a different manager would change that without signing anyone.
And we also should realize that the lineup yesterday played Leicester first and then West Ham, winning one and losing one. That's probably how you'd expect things to go. Good defence, no midfield or attack leading to hoping you keep a clean sheet and you take the 1 or 2 chances that come your way. Worked vs Leicester, didnt vs West Ham. We aren't capable if outplaying decent sides if we don't have Martial and Pogba in the starting 11. That's the reality of our squad right now, and I dont think a different manager would change that without signing anyone.
Lukaku
Rashford Lingard Mata
Pogba Matic
Young Smalling +1 Valencia
De Gea
Jose finished 2nd and people claimed he was not coaching the players. What a deluded fanbase.
Rashford Lingard Mata
Pogba Matic
Young Smalling +1 Valencia
De Gea
Jose finished 2nd and people claimed he was not coaching the players. What a deluded fanbase.
You can check how Klopp got Pool playing with a bunch of oafs as soon as he was appointed manager.
Have you seen Pep playing deep counter attacking football when he came to City?
I only hear around here this myth that Pep and Klopp can’t make a team play their way.
They both can and have done it at different clubs with different players.
fecking hell, hopefully you are paid well
I get half the severance Jose was paid.fecking hell, hopefully you are paid well
Ffs, do we really find it unusual that managers have their own vision of playing football, can impose a particular style of play on their players in a way that it can be executed and yield success? If not this, then what on Earth are managers there for?
I dont care about managers playing counter attacking football or tika taka or Klopps style. That's not the main thing here. Sir Alex played all sorts but was built around a counter attacking mentality with wing play. It has to be with attacking intent, but everyone has their preferences and they can all be entertaining. What I'm saying is that if you put Klopp or Pep in charge of a lineup like yesterday (aka a United squad with no Martial, no Pogba, no Greenwood, half fit Rashford and half fit lingard), it's not going to be pretty. So if the greatest managers wouldnt be able to get shit play entertaining football, what makes you think Ole would? When we are full strength, I think we'll be fine. I think we'll be good to watch with the main 11. Unfortunately, we had that for 2 games this season, and even counting for that we still need to let them get used to everything and improve and we're still missing a right winger and a quality #10 to properly make the next step. No matter the manager, we need to make the signings because we just don't have the personnel in attack. Nobody could make Andreas Pereira into Sterling, Mahrez, Mane or Salah. No manager would make Mata or Matic the players they were 5 years ago. You can blame Ole for the state of the squad and not having other options, but I liked that he got rid of every player he did and I like all 3 of his signings. Also think it's more on Woodward that we didnt make more signings to address the other gaps.
If when we have a fully fit squad we still play like shit, play negatively like we did under Mourinho, then I'd criticize his tactics. But yesterday we simply didn't have players to do anything else then what we did. We did the same against Leicester. Defend tight, restrict opposing chances and hope you end with a clean sheet and then hope you're clinical in attack. Worked against Leicester, didn't against west Ham as we missed 2 sitters and they scored 1 half chance and 1 beauty.
The main difference is that Klopp, Pep would have brought in players in the Summer that would suit their style. They would also coached the current crop of players and improve them.
Look at what Klopp had when he took over and send them to EL final:
A terrible, terrible backline. A midfield base of Can and Milner, injury prone Sturridge, average Lallana and probably only two good players in Coutinho and Firmino.
Still he made them play the style he wanted and you can see his imprint right away.
It's a very poor excuse to say Klopp and Pep won't do anything with our current squad.
What Klopp worked with at Pool when he took over was worse than what Ole inherited and by a good margin.
Look at Klopp's front-line for the 4-0 win against Barcelona - he's missing both Firmino and Salah, yet it wasn't an excuse that he couldn't get them to play the football he wanted. They were even competitive in the CL final the year before, after they lost Salah if it wasn't for two Karius cock ups.The main difference is that Klopp, Pep would have brought in players in the Summer that would suit their style. They would also coached the current crop of players and improve them.
Look at what Klopp had when he took over and send them to EL final:
A terrible, terrible backline. A midfield base of Can and Milner, injury prone Sturridge, average Lallana and probably only two good players in Coutinho and Firmino.
Still he made them play the style he wanted and you can see his imprint right away.
It's a very poor excuse to say Klopp and Pep won't do anything with our current squad.
What Klopp worked with at Pool when he took over was worse than what Ole inherited and by a good margin.
Also - Toure, Lovren, Moreno & Mignolet
I miss the good times You think Ole didn't want to bring in other players? Ole brought in James, Wan Bissaka and Maguire. All looking like excellent purchases and exactly what we needed. We also need 2 more midfielders and a starting right winger and more striker depth. We can't make 7 big signings in 1 window though, nor is Woodward capable of it clearly.The main difference is that Klopp, Pep would have brought in players in the Summer that would suit their style. They would also coached the current crop of players and improve them.
Look at what Klopp had when he took over and send them to EL final:
A terrible, terrible backline. A midfield base of Can and Milner, injury prone Sturridge, average Lallana and probably only two good players in Coutinho and Firmino.
Still he made them play the style he wanted and you can see his imprint right away.
It's a very poor excuse to say Klopp and Pep won't do anything with our current squad.
What Klopp worked with at Pool when he took over was worse than what Ole inherited and by a good margin.
And you mention that team. Yes, they had a terrible defence for years under Klopp. Until they bought Van Dijk, Fabinho and Allisson in 2018 and suddenly the defence was fixed. We bought Wan Bissaka and Maguire, our defensive issues suddenly got fixed. Unfortunately for us, we also had attacking issues and gaping holes at right wing, attacking midfield and defensive midfield still. Im not saying they would nothing with our squad, I'm saying they would do nothing with what has been available to Ole with Pogba and Martial injured.
Also when everyone is fit, I think it's clear what Ole is trying to do. Still inconsistencies there, but we like to play with width, we like to play with pace and we like counter attacking when we get the chance. Nothing wrong with that. Problem is we dont have depth to still do it once we get a couple of key injuries.
This is one of the biggest things that has held us back from improving and getting back to the top IMO. We need to let go of that and stop trying to recreate the past. Do you know how much space everyone got in the 90s and early 200s? The football is completely different. If we played with those tactics (which we basically do) we'd get slaughtered. The game has changed rapidly and as a club we're still ten years behind. Digging up club legends in different roles is never going to help that.
Even SAF said that it was too much for one person to try to do everything himself. He left the training to his coaches and just observed from the side, judging performances and ability.
That being said, the manger must have a clear vision of how he wants his team to play. Only then can the coaches drill the players properly.
Pep's spending may be high but there is no doubt the return you get from his coaching and what he puts out on the pitch is well worth it. From top to bottom City are a representation of Pep and what you have come to expect. Barcelona have spent tons of money over the last 2 - 3 windows and yet still look clueless without Messi. That's the difference between having a manager who can actually coach and one who can't. Ole was suppose to coach finishing, make Rashford and the rest better, are they better now than under Jose? Ole was suppose to coach attacking football, have us playing the "United way", is this it? Are we a better attacking team now than we were under Jose? You can see a coaches imprint on a team regardless of the quality, the results may not be there but the performances are always telling.
Yeah, well said.
That's really my hope - that just as OGS ensured our treble decades ago, his appointment will end up ensuring that we move on from that era.
I also hope he isn't kept in the job for too long - for his own career's sake.
Its amazing that lvg and mourinho also forgot how to coach while they were here
Are we getting slaughtered
Not so much defensively but in attack we cannot cope with the lack of space and we look blunt.
This team needs to be rebuilt. The rebuilt started by getting rid of some fringe players. Young, Jones, Rojo, etc don't have long at the club.
The problem is Woodward cannot bring replacement players on permeant or loan deal.
We really need to win Europa League if we want CL football next year.
The problem is Woodward cannot bring replacement players on permeant or loan deal.
We really need to win Europa League if we want CL football next year.
What worries me isn't managers like Klopp and Pep doing what they do it's the fact that a manager like Graham Potter took over Brighton in May and already has them playing his brand of football. He came in with a clear thought process of what he wants to do, spent £60 Million on players able to do that and in a short space of time has got Lewis Dunk and co who he inherited from Chris Hughton playing out from the back. The fact he's made more progress implementing a style of play is probably down to a few things, a major one being the lack of any form of expectation there, but I still think it's a point worth raising. Assuming we give Ole time and at least another transfer window to get rid of some dead wood and bring in a couple more players, when can we realistically expect to see performances pick up under him?