When was he best ?
Is Mata past his best?
- Thread starter OohAahMartial
- Start date
I was happy with the signing at the time (probably because we were desperate) but realised very early on he wasn't good enough to get us back challenging for titles. When he gets the ball his first move is usually to turn around and pass it backwards which kills our chances of quick attacks.
I like him but I’m surprised that Jose didn’t ship him out already. He’s not really a game changer unless the entire environment is suitable for him.
On what planet are De Bruyne and Silva like Mata? De Bruyne does have a turn of pace, can beat a player and passes the ball forwards at every opportunity. Silva is small, maybe lightweight and slow so you are somewhat closer here apart from two key points - one Silva can beat a player with the drop of a shoulder and often carries the ball into dangerous areas, secondly Silva passes forwards. He doesn't cowardly clip it sideways to Fernandinho or Walker every time and go "there you go son do something with that"
Come on. Watch Mata next time he plays and tell me if anything I have said is wrong
Silva's a better player, but they both are similar. Unfortunately Man City play actual football whereas we play hoofball or lump it into Lukaku all game. Silva looks so much much better than Mata because Silva has movement actually around him, Mata is basically our best player when it comes to off the ball movement which is pretty sad. City play in tight areas, small triangles, we don't. Watch any time we have it on the wing, there'll be absolutely no-one within 10-15 yards of the person with the ball.
Yes.
Yes well I agree with the first part. Isn't the fact that we never have anyone anywhere near our RB down to the fact that that is where Mata is supposed to be playing?
Good player or bad player, whatever your opinion on his ability I just think he is totally wrong for us.
No, it's down to how Mourinho wants his team to play. Put Mata in the Man City team, I think you'd see what a player he is/can still be. Maybe not as good as Silva, but he'd get a ton of goals and wouldn't look out of place.
I think most of our players would look better if they were playing under Pep.
He won't even start for City, he probably won't even start in any other top 6 team
There is a long queue of players who should be shipped out before Mata. Just because you're a homegrown player, shouldn't make you untouchable i.e. Lingard.
He was very good for Chelsea but looking back... They did finish outside of the top 4 in that class season of his. So he was never going to be a game changer really. Just a smart player who can be productive consistently. He's capable of having some class games but far too often is ineffective IMO. But if he's happy being a squad player then feck it, might as well keep him. Just shouldn't be starting every week.
Lingard, Young etc should be well gone before Mata
All these POTY’s did they win the league?
When he was Chelsea's player of the year.
Yes playing Mata on the left wing is crazy but why Jose plays him there is for him to come inside and for Valencia to go wide and put the crosses in. What is more crazy is its time Jose realises that Valencia is going to hit the first defender in front of him 9 times out of 10.
People talk about him coming deep to help the midfield. It is not true. He comes in or came in yesterday because he could not get into the game at all and wanted the space and time to get onto the ball. That pass from Young was not so horrible that he could not control it. He took his eyes of the ball and he lost it. He should have brought the Huddersfield player down and took a yellow for that for the team.
The other issue about his is that he thinks he can dribble but he is so slow that by the time he comes in from the left and dribbles into the midfield everyone else is set and back in shape. That is the same with his running into open spaces. He is so slow that by the time he comes into space the defence is back to its shape. He is a nice guy and have delicate first touch but does not fit at United. I do not think Ozil will be any better than Mata. I would rather Jose plays Blind on the left side of the midfield. He has played there for Ajax and for Netherlands. He is much quicker and much stronger and also have the vision to make that pass and also can shoot from distance. I prefer if Jose goes to a diamond with this team and play two up front
People talk about him coming deep to help the midfield. It is not true. He comes in or came in yesterday because he could not get into the game at all and wanted the space and time to get onto the ball. That pass from Young was not so horrible that he could not control it. He took his eyes of the ball and he lost it. He should have brought the Huddersfield player down and took a yellow for that for the team.
The other issue about his is that he thinks he can dribble but he is so slow that by the time he comes in from the left and dribbles into the midfield everyone else is set and back in shape. That is the same with his running into open spaces. He is so slow that by the time he comes into space the defence is back to its shape. He is a nice guy and have delicate first touch but does not fit at United. I do not think Ozil will be any better than Mata. I would rather Jose plays Blind on the left side of the midfield. He has played there for Ajax and for Netherlands. He is much quicker and much stronger and also have the vision to make that pass and also can shoot from distance. I prefer if Jose goes to a diamond with this team and play two up front
Unfortunately for us all his best touches have been off the pitch. This season 1goal and 0 assists in 11 games are nowhere near good enough
This. Mata is a great 10 - he's not a winger, a CM or anything else so why criticise him when he doesn't perform when played out of position? Surely criticise Jose?
It must be hell being the 10 of this team anyway, so I'm not surprised Mkhi is struggling either. If you pick up the ball who is ahead of you - usually a stationary Lukaku who has 2 CBs for company, Rashford or Martial who will be doubled up on as our LB never really overlaps (something Young does a bit more of now tbf) and zero coming down the right because we don't play with a fast RW and Tony V is woeful at putting the ball in.
Mata or Mkhi is easily good enough to play as our 10 but not in this structure.
Go look at our squads those seasons and tell me we would’ve finished higher or lower without Mata’s massive contributions.
Yeah replacing him with Ozil would make us win..........
Yes. And his best wasn't that great, compared to others in elite football.
Tier 2 level player better suited at Everton or Arsenal.
Tier 2 level player better suited at Everton or Arsenal.
Last edited:
This.
Couldn't agree more about Lingard.
Couldn’t careless. Whilst you was struggling for 5th with Mata we was winning the league with players that had bottle.
I don't want him to leave, but we need players that have more of an effect on the game (and consistently) as starters.
Always said that if he's happy with it, I'd like to keep him as rotation/backup/sub.
Always said that if he's happy with it, I'd like to keep him as rotation/backup/sub.
He can still be a very good footballer. He's wasted on the wings though / inside forward and apprantaly cannot even beat our Lingard for the backup #10 role.
I would say it's likely this to be his last season as we will certaintly strengthen the wings this summer. He may stay on one more as a squad player I suppose.
But more to the question, his best was at Chelsea and he's never replicated that at United.
I would say it's likely this to be his last season as we will certaintly strengthen the wings this summer. He may stay on one more as a squad player I suppose.
But more to the question, his best was at Chelsea and he's never replicated that at United.
There’s no doubt as far as form is concerned Mata for us has never been Mata at Chelsea BUT he’s spent pretty much his entire United career being slotted into positions or systems that were designed to help others (RVP, Falcao, Rooney and Mhkitaryan) and very little of his career has been spent as a 10 let alone a prolonged period.
With the pace of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial we’ve finally got players who like to run in behind which is what Mata likes and as a 10 I believe he’s more consistent than Mhkitaryan, of the two I’d put Mhkitaryan out on the right and have Mata as the 10.
With the pace of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial we’ve finally got players who like to run in behind which is what Mata likes and as a 10 I believe he’s more consistent than Mhkitaryan, of the two I’d put Mhkitaryan out on the right and have Mata as the 10.
Presumably you weren't watching us when he was scoring key goals against all of City, Liverpool and Arsenal. Or when he was MOTM in games against Chelsea and Spurs. Or when he scored in the FA Cup Final.
Or indeed those times before he even arrived here when he got either a goal or assist in the finals of the CL, EL, Euro, Copa and FA Cup.
Seems to me your view is a bit sucky. Or the definition of "mediocre" has changed since I learned how to read.
Mata's been symptomatic of our problems ever since Fergie left. We haven't had decent wing play or crosses in 4 years partially because Mata's been occupying our right wing a lot. He just doesn't have anything to offer, look at all the other top 4 teams in the league - they have players on the right wing that can beat a man and do something with the ball (Salah, Pedro/Willian, Eriksen, Sterling). Mata on the other hand 90% of the time will receive the ball, pass it sideways or backwards and run into the centre.
It's just not good enough. Yes he'll very occasionally pops up with a goal, but 4 out of 5 games he'll do nothing. I even prefer Lingard over him because even though Lingard's technically inferior, he at least occasionally has the balls to do something, e.g. actually make a run with the ball or try and link up with the rest of our attackers.
It's just not good enough. Yes he'll very occasionally pops up with a goal, but 4 out of 5 games he'll do nothing. I even prefer Lingard over him because even though Lingard's technically inferior, he at least occasionally has the balls to do something, e.g. actually make a run with the ball or try and link up with the rest of our attackers.
Eriksen > Mata
Silva > Mata
Ozil > Mata
Coutinho = Mata (question marks over whether Mata has the same influence as Coutinho)
Mata doesn't play in his favoured position because he is not good enough to warrant building a team around. I am not saying that Mata is a bad player, I think he is good enough to play for us, but not as a guaranteed starter.
Silva > Mata
Ozil > Mata
Coutinho = Mata (question marks over whether Mata has the same influence as Coutinho)
Mata doesn't play in his favoured position because he is not good enough to warrant building a team around. I am not saying that Mata is a bad player, I think he is good enough to play for us, but not as a guaranteed starter.
He has spent majority of his entire career playing wide because he isn’t quite good enough to be given such a central role.
He isn’t as good as silva, KDB etc and never will be. He is a decent player but we need an upgrade on both him and mikh in the starting eleven.
Yes he’s on decline but I never want him to be sold,he could be useful bench option.
Isn't it more than a coincidence that the majority of attacking players we sign never are able to reproduce the form they have shown before???
I'm sure you can stick KDB in our team and we would make him look bang average. The lack of movement in our team is awful, we barely have any forward runners.
I am certain Mata would be 10x better if played for City, Liverpool or Spurs.
I'm sure you can stick KDB in our team and we would make him look bang average. The lack of movement in our team is awful, we barely have any forward runners.
I am certain Mata would be 10x better if played for City, Liverpool or Spurs.
Performance wise and ability on the ball he hasn't declined from what we've always seen from him at United, in our very first few games this season I thought he gave some man of the match level performances for us with his movement and chance creation, he was doing really well-opening space next to Lukaku. It's the goals that are missing, I think he's hit the post a couple times. But I suppose goals are a big aspect on how we judge a player like him.
This thread isn’t about them though.yes not up to the Lingard , Granny Jones , Smalling , Young , Shaw standard at all
The best I’ve seen Mata at United was the odd occasion when Moyes was like I’m going for this and he deployed Kagawa and Mata together in a 3 in midfield, somewhat like Pep does with Silva and KDB.
Mata has always had moments because he is a skilled player but he has never really been “the man” i’m Not sure I’d say he is in decline, he’s still just doing what he has always done for us. There will be a game soon enough where he’ll score and people will forget this little dip. Good player, great guy, just not the guy for us. Someone said it earlier if he was to leave tomorrow I wouldn’t shed any tears.
Mata has always had moments because he is a skilled player but he has never really been “the man” i’m Not sure I’d say he is in decline, he’s still just doing what he has always done for us. There will be a game soon enough where he’ll score and people will forget this little dip. Good player, great guy, just not the guy for us. Someone said it earlier if he was to leave tomorrow I wouldn’t shed any tears.
This is a dangerous attitude to have though because we blamed Moyes, then we blamed LvG, now apparently it's Mourinho's fault....at what point do we go actually these players might just not be very good? How many times do we say "if only player X played this position" or "if only we set up this way player X would be much better"
I agree, when you ask yourself who has shown the highest level at united post-SAF most of them are Mourinho's signings.
Bailly, Matic, Pogba, Ibra, Lukaku
The other players that have shown a good level are SAF's former players ie Jones, Smalling, Valencia.
Moyes underinvested in the squad massively and LVG invested in the squad extremely poorly with multiple flops (Di Maria, Falcao, Shaw, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin)
Do we have to have these sort of threads after every loss?
Knee jerk. Close the thread and ban its poster.
I genuinely think he's one of our best players and is an easy target for people. Alongside Blind, Miki and a few others.
Even when they play well, it's reluctant praise they get.
Even when they play well, it's reluctant praise they get.