Crossing is still prevalent and teams do score quite a lot of goals from it.
Lets agree to disagree because we're a mile apart on this opinion. Hometown kid winning it for little old Paris? please. Maybe if you hadn't have spent billions on wages and transfer fee's and have a front 3 that dwarf your nearest rivals wage budget alone id see the story being told.
He's still right
Hmm, good point. Might be harder to get the balon d'or.
Of coursew I agree with that. He is still relatively young and has already improved a lot in terms of playmaking and creativity in the past 2 years.
If he wins the CL, whether at PSG or Real Madrid, he will have a good chance of getting the Ballon d'Or. Winning the PL or La Liga alone might not be enough with this voting system
So players can still cross? What's your point, remains a low scoring chance opportunity. Maybe it's also due to not having too many good headers in the league anymore. It's the same with corners btw, chances to score from corners are very low, teams still hammer them in instead of keeping the ball, because sometimes it's enough in football to simply score that 1 in X corner goals to win.Meanwhile in the Premier League…
Doesn't change the fact that it's not a quality way of producing chances.
I'm not advocating for Utd vs Fulham levels here. But if it plays a part in almost 1 in 4 goals it's still quite an effective tactic when needed. If the ball is delivered into the right area with enough quality, it's really all about working the space to get that delivery into the right area, which is something Liverpool are very good at.
You cannot have Henry above Platini in an all time ranking. Just no. Say top 3 of players you've seen, that's ok. All time includes Platini and he was objectively a different order of magnitude to Henry
Rio made a great point basically saying that none of his goals this WC has relied on pace. This idea that he's a pace merchant is wide of the mark. He does have blistering pace, but that's one of his assets.
I do not agree that Platini was objectively a different order to Henry. Henry is legitimately one of the greatest forwards to ever play. He just never got the worldwide recognition he deserved because of the club he played for and the league he played in. For all of Henry's prime, Italy and Spain were the top leagues hogging all the attention. If Henry had moved to Italy or Spain in his prime, he'd have at least 3 Ballon d'ors (2003, 2004 and 2006). One of the most deadly forwards to ever play AND still holds the record for most assists in a PL season by the way. Also has the WC, the CL, the Euros as well as league titles in 3 different countries. Few forwards have been more complete than he was.
My point is that the best teams in the league that both use gegenpress (in different ways) that you’ve mentioned and set up tactical trends cross more than any other team in the league. Crossing did change (for example, you can notice that Pep’s team often use it without even having a proper target man in the box — those are pre-Haaland numbers) but to say that it disappeared is laughable when it’s actually one of the most used attacking instruments by the trend-setting managers.
Henry wasn't particularly good for France, there is no scenario where he is the second best performer for France. His career for the national team has been largely as a support player. During his own era, he wasn't better than Zidane, Thuram, Desailly, Djorkaeff, Vieira or even Ribéry, he wasn't a better goalscorer than Trézéguet. And none of these players are remotely close to Platini who has arguably produced the most dominant tournament of all time, not just french players, in 1984. He was for France a better goalscorer and playmaker than anyone has been since.
If we're talking NT only I wouldnt even have Henry above Griezmann and thats saying something because as far as overall careers are concerned I wouldnt put Griezmann anywhere near Henry
I hate that i'm having to cape for a player that I hated so much when I was a kid but Henry is being disrespected here. He was France's top scorer in 98, Euro 2000 and in 2006. Second all time in WC goals and international goals.
And he wasn't the best performer in any of these competitions. He was also nowhere to be found in 2002, 2004 and 2008. He was nowhere to be found until Zidane, Makélélé and Thuram came back between 2004-2006. This isn't disrespect but reality, Henry was a great player but it doesn't mean that you have to not only overrate him but also underrate Platini who is an all time great and widely seen as the best french player ever with only Zidane being in a conversation with Platini.
I would totally agree with that, as remember the old lady had no problem in getting rid of the then world cup winner just a season after 98. As even without Mbappe, I didnt even have henry (feck all to do with the handball) in my top 3 forwards for France that I saw play for them, as that list read, Platini, Papin and Trezeguet.
Yeah I like that.
You could just say you have no idea about Platini, and that you grew up with Henry being the centrepiece of the footballing world you are most familiar with.
I'm not saying it disappeared, it simply isn't a major focus in training for many teams anymore, the teams that still do cross usually do it because teams congest the central areas against them.
I agree, aside from that spamming merchant TAA, wingers/full backs don't just sling balls into the box at every opportunity.
You’ve literally said that crossing had died out in modern football while the main trendsetters of modern football cross more than any other teams in the league (and the likes of De Bruyne, Trent & Robertson are widely praised for their crossing).
Both De Bruyne & Trent are insanely good at crosses — as close to Beckham, the GOAT of that particular skill, as you can be.
You are right, it didn't die out, completely wrong choice of words on my end. I'd still argue that crossing changed, like I said before it's more flat cut backs, to players arriving a bit later in the box, then long balls into the box trying to find a target man. That being said you are of course right that de Bruyne and Trent are still absolutely excellent at floating long crosses, usually to the wide post.
That is a true statement, tbh. But if some teams probably close and shut down the middle area of the pitch or don't allow any space to do through the ball, the most effective way to counter it is probably crossing. A high cross isn't the only way of crossing. There are several types of crossing like low-drilled crosses, chipped crosses, early crosses, and a lot. It is still one of the most effective ways to score to goals( especially when you have someone like Trent or KDB).You are right, it didn't die out, completely wrong choice of words on my end. I'd still argue that crossing changed, like I said before it's more flat cut backs, to players arriving a bit later in the box, then long balls into the box trying to find a target man. That being said you are of course right that de Bruyne and Trent are still absolutely excellent at floating long crosses, usually to the wide post.
I also totally agree that teams need to adept, like I also mentioned, if everyone completely closes down the center, through balls are really hard to pull off and the space on in the wide areas has to be used again.
It also remains true though that it's not an efficient way to play football, so the big teams attempting loads of crosses is imo the result of two things, they still have players who are good at crossing and are forced to do it because the opposition doesn't allow them to play through the center.
And since I don't know what I'm even arguing at this stage anymore, and it might very well be a moot point I'm trying to make here, I think I'll just leave the discussion at this stage. On top of that I think we are derailing the thread a bit.
Why would I say what isn't true? There's more than enough video evidence of Michel Platini for me or anyone to make an informed decision. I don't have to be born in 1950 to know that Pele is a footballing legend but Messi is clearly better.
it wasn’t a Zidane and Henry generation. it was Zidane generation
Neither was the guys you claim are better. Zidane and Desailly were there in 02 and 04. Trezeguet and Makelele and Thuram were there in 02 and 04 and 08. He has scored more goals in every major tournament than David Trezeguet. Good or bad. So for you to claim he wasn't a better goal scorer than Trezeguet is beyond laughable. Trezeguet is only remembered fondly because he scored the extra time winner in the Euro 2000 final. That's it.
Your posts have no objective opinion of Platini, only a case for Henry.
For France Trezeguet was a better goalscorer, you do realize that it is quantified? And are you genuinely going to argue that Zidane, Thuram, Desailly, Lizarazu and Vieira weren't better for France? Henry was for France in the same bracket than the likes of Trézéguet, Pirès, Makélélé, Djorkaeff or Wiltord good players but support players, none of them have a claim to be high in a ranking that concerns performances for the national team.
