Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[Care_de_Bobo]

Before Pep, City won the league 2 of 5 seasons (since the takeover). They never defended their title.
With Pep, they've won 5 of 7 seasons, including a three-season and 2-season repeat.

The PL is not = Bundesliga, Pep (and his funding) have made it into that.

He inherited a £400m squad and had to spend another £400m (those are just the published transfer fees) to win his first league title in a post SAF PL era. Absolutely insane numbers.

Adjusted for inflation his squad in 2017/18 cost 5 times as much as United's treble winners. They were knocked out in the round of 16 and the quarters in his first two CL campaigns for City despite that ridiculous outlay. He has continuously spent ridiculous sums since then and after 7 years is finally on the verge of doing what should have been a formality.

Ferguson was never able to spend that kind of money and if he had been who knows how much more he would have won. He didn't need to though and that's the sign of a true great. All the money United have wasted since he left was only available because of what he achieved, there's just no comparison between the two and never will be.

 

[Dansk]

One of the best. But unfortunately for him he's got no underdog success story. Fergie has Aberdeen - and he did the small thing of reviving this giant club.

It's not as though Pep was forcibly prevented from going to a team that wasn't already coasting to easy success no matter who took the helm.

He chose the path of least resistance.

 

[2 man midfield]

Yeah once he’s won a European trophy with Aberdeen, beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid in the process. Or wins the league with a team that never wins the league, with such a strong duopoly that it’s never done again afterwards.

According to Noel Gallagher though, Fergie never did it abroad. Absolute fecking wibble.

 

[Fobal]

He is among the very best and he can easily be named The Best, he has gain such right, later everyone will have his predilections.
He can easily be the best because of his success (not only winning, competing to the highest level everytime) and the way he makes his teams play,

Adding to that: the way he conducts purchasing players, the way he cut ties almost immediately after sthg does not work with him, the way he gets under the skin of the Press and rivals, the way he changes strategies, players roles, etc etc etc..

And this doesn't mean that I would always be fond of his choices, the way a certain game he makes his team play, the way he managed certain players, yet credit when its due, winning or losing tomorrow, it doesn't change that.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

• Took PEDs during playing career and caught twice
• Managed Barca during period they were paying referees chief
• Managed Bayern in a one team league
• Managed City with financial doping, corruption and money laundering on an unprecedented scale unlikely to ever be repeated. Lies to media claiming to want a quick resolution while City's lawyers have been actively obstructing PL investigation and kicked can down the road with UEFA to invoke time limitations.

Pep is the greatest manager in the same way that Lance Armstrong had the best period of any cyclist in history and is also the greatest.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Serial cheat.

 

[Hammondo]

2009 CL final - Xavi/Iniesta(fresh from Euro 2008 victory) vs Carrick/Giggs(36 year old winger playing as CM)

2011 CL final - Busquets/Xavi/Iniesta(fresh from World cup victory) vs Carrick/Giggs(38 year old winger playing as CM).

If Tony Pulis managed those 2 Barcelona teams, they would still have beaten SAF's Man Utd in terms of the sheer talents scattered al over the squads.

Guardiola won a huge lottery managing Barcelona between 2008-2012 and he has said this many many times that he inherited a great squad.

He should never have picked that as our midfield, its suicidal.

 

[The Bloody Nine]

I always think a big question mark against Pep GOAT shout is the fact that he took over a Bayern team who literally smashed everyone the previous season and couldnt even replicate it never mind improve it.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No, but he's one of the 3-4 best ever.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Greatest manager of all time wouldn't have 12 year gap between his champions league wins and in a timeframe whereby every year since 2011 his team have been favourites. Signing the best goal scoring striker in world the final piece in ending that gap, a sign of pure greatest?

Not true. Bayern weren't favorites in 2015 nor 2016. Neither were City in 2017.

And CL titles isn't the best barometer for managerial success. Fergie only won 2 of them. Zidane has 3 of them, winning 3 in a row. And I really rate Zidane, but you wouldn't argue him being the best manager of all time.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Not true. Bayern weren't favorites in 2015 nor 2016. Neither were City in 2017.

And CL titles isn't the best barometer for managerial success. Fergie only won 2 of them. Zidane has 3 of them, winning 3 in a row. And I really rate Zidane, but you wouldn't argue him being the best manager of all time.

Fergie also beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Fergie also beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen.

I'm well aware of that. His work with Aberdeen is amazing and I don't think any manager could have replicated it.

My point is that CL success isn't the best barometer to judge managerial success/quality.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

One of the very best for sure. Not only he delivered success to all the clubs he managed, but he also brought over his football philosophy, and implement it to the clubs.

 

[RuudTom83]

yeah he is pretty good...very expensive though

 

[RoyH1]

Fergie also beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen.

This a thousand times. Guardiola has only ever won with absolutely loaded squads with star players and insane depth. What Fergie did first with Aberdeen and later with us is a much greater achievement

 

[Dansk]

In an era where nobody can stop themselves from making movies about every scrap of footballing success that anybody has,, where are the films about Pep Guardiola? I'm not saying there aren't videos here and there, but for a manager who has won five out of the last six titles, it's oddly quiet.

 

[Stacks]

When Klopp joined Dortmund they hadn’t won a major trophy (league or CL) for 6 years. Liverpool hadn’t for 10 years.

When Jose joined Chelsea they hadn’t won a major trophy for half a century.

When SAF joined Aberdeen and United they hadn’t won a major trophy for almost 2 decades.

When Pep joined Barca/Bayern/City they hadn’t won a major trophy for 2/0/2 years.

Yes he mostly won more / dominated more than the previous managers, but he always took over already (extremely) successful and winning teams.

Because he needs his players to be the most technically gifted in the league. Basically if you have that condition he is the best for the job but for every other situation you'd probably opt for other managers

 

[dal]

The problem is, he's always either managed the best team in the league or the team with the most resources in the league. I don't think he could do what Klopp did at Liverpool for example.

If Sir Alex went to Barca, Bayern and City instead of Pep, then he would have won just as much, but Pep could not have done what Sir Alex did at Aberdeen then rebuild United and continue to do so, while not being able to outspend everyone most years.

With unlimited funds Pep is amazing obviously, but if Barca and City get convicted, then it taints his legacy because he was at both of them clubs when the crimes were committed.

What Klopp did at Liverpool, is this a joke?

Pep would win one league title with Liverpool.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

What Klopp did at Liverpool, is this a joke?

Pep would win one league title with Liverpool.

Klopp won the League and the Champions League without the crazy spending that Pep has needed. No chance he does that with an inferior team to others and less spending.

 

[Bastian]

It's not as though Pep was forcibly prevented from going to a team that wasn't already coasting to easy success no matter who took the helm.

He chose the path of least resistance.

Yes.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Not a chance. The biggest football fraud in history. On a par with Boris Johnson. Surrounds himself with lies, manipulation and illegal advantages over the opposition.
Give him that Ranieri Leicester team and it would’ve been mid table at best.
Give him Fergies last team and he’d have struggled for top four.
Absolutely boring coke head

 

[Harry190]

To play devil's advocate, if the teams hiring him are offering him the best conditions to win, why would he refuse.

There are managers who can't handle that. He just so happens to be the best at handling very strong squads.

 

[MileStolar]

Will always have Fergie as number 1 because he successfully bridge the gap between two eras of football.

Which is unfair on Pep who only started management in the late 2000’s but well history and life isn’t fair. Tough luck.

Do you think Pep would be half as good in the 90s and early 2000s? He wouldn't have had a chance to make a squad to his ilk at that time

 

[alexthelion]

Undoubtedly the best coach ever.

A lot of you folks are ignoring the fact that he got the Barcelona job because of what he did with Barca B team.
Barca B team were relegated a season before and he revolutionized that team.

His great coaching work was so evident that he got the Barca job over Jose, an unbelievable and v risky decision by Barca at that time.
Barcelona always had great players but Frank Raijkard never fulfilled the teams potential.
It was Pep who delivered, and oh my god what a beauty that team was.

Bayern, I believe Bayern played incredibly well under him but no doubt the expectations were too high in Europe and he failed to meet those expectations but nonetheless the quality of football was outrageous. But if we only judge him on Champions League success, he failed.

City, what a progression it has been. Monumental.
Pellegrini's team was not the best one but the transition has been truly formidable.
There have been hiccups for sure but what a transformation.
If City manage to get the treble, it will be a historical achievement for sure.

SAF/Mourinho were great managers but SAF was always beaten by Pep. Mourinho was great at Madrid but he sort of tarnished his reputation at united.
Moreover, premier league's standard is probably at the highest right now.
Back in the days of SAF. it was mostly 2-3 teams that were competing.
Moreover, I don't recall SAF winning the Champions League more than 2 times in his overall tenure.

In my mind, Pep is definitely the best there is. He already has 2 champions league titles to his name and moreover has age on his side.
He will surely win alot more judging by his track record.

Notable mention is Jurgen Klopp. What Klopp has achieved with Liverpool is nothing short of incredible. I think Pep and Klopp have redefined the standards of football in recent history.

 

[Bearded One]

To play devil's advocate, if the teams hiring him are offering him the best conditions to win, why would he refuse.

There are managers who can't handle that. He just so happens to be the best at handling very strong squads.

He is not the first to get a job at a big club and he’s not the last to rock up at the clubs he’s managed. No manager intentionally chooses the more difficult path - they get opportunities based on their previous success. some manage that success better than others and some fall from that elevated place because they are unable to sustain that success. This is why Peo will be regarded as one of the finest the game has produced, at the very least. If Jose was still winning, he’d been in Madrid with Perez today not Roma.

 

[Redfrog]

He is not even the best Pep Guardiola is my idol in town.

 

[alexthelion]

No.

Cheated as a player.
Barca cheated.
Bayern failed to win CL.
Man City cheated.

Not as good a CV as Ballbag would have you believe.

 

[Fts 74]

If, and its still a big if at this stage, City are found guilty of the alleged charges and Barca of paying off Ref's how would everyone judge him then?
I'm sure City fans would be like the pundits it's nothing to do with the players or Pep!

 

[Wilt]

To play devil's advocate, if the teams hiring him are offering him the best conditions to win, why would he refuse.

There are managers who can't handle that. He just so happens to be the best at handling very strong squads.

Agreed, fair point.

 

[Andersonson]

Not sure if he's the greatest of all time, but surely on his path to become the greatest in premier leagues history

 

[bringbackbebe]

All the great managers in the world have some sort of a rags to riches story. Stories of Shankly, Busby, Ferguson, Wenger, Clough, Revie can be spoken about with enthusiasm. Guardiola is the greatest manager in the world right now, but what's his legacy and story exactly? That he took financially doped or bully teams to a couple of champions league finals in the last 12 years (and probably winning one) in the process?

 

[RedRonaldo]

No other manager has ever had the kind of squad superiority that he has had. If anything, it’s pretty astounding that he hasn’t won more on the European stage.

Well if he won tomorrow it would be his 3rd CL, which would put him on joint 2nd alongside Bob Paisley and Zidane, and only 1 less than Ancelotti. Maybe he should have won more but that's still alot.

 

[rimaldo]

yes.

 

[overdunne]

He inherited a £400m squad and had to spend another £400m (those are just the published transfer fees) to win his first league title in a post SAF PL era. Absolutely insane numbers.

Adjusted for inflation his squad in 2017/18 cost 5 times as much as United's treble winners. They were knocked out in the round of 16 and the quarters in his first two CL campaigns for City despite that ridiculous outlay. He has continuously spent ridiculous sums since then and after 7 years is finally on the verge of doing what should have been a formality.

Ferguson was never able to spend that kind of money and if he had been who knows how much more he would have won. He didn't need to though and that's the sign of a true great. All the money United have wasted since he left was only available because of what he achieved, there's just no comparison between the two and never will be.

As you’re competing with other teams when buying players, adjusting for inflation makes no sense - transfer fees are relative to other teams at the same point in time - not to teams in the past.

 

[mandroid]

Of all managers in Europoean football talked about with high regard, I have watched teams managed by SAF, Klopp, Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti, Enrique or even Rijkard. Pep's teams have been best by far. Playing style, pressing, passing, domination, scoring threats and chances created...his teams outperform others on all parameters. Klopp comes second, for the energy his teams display. Mourinho is worst of all. I am not sure if he even deserves to be put along these other great managers.

 

[dal]

Klopp won the League and the Champions League without the crazy spending that Pep has needed. No chance he does that with an inferior team to others and less spending.

Klopp won one league, Ranieri did this also with a much inferior team. Saying Pep has no chance, a manager who has won five leagues is embarrassing.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

No, I am. I had 3 kids on my U16 team who literally couldn’t kick a ball, and yet I coached them to 1st place. No state funding, no illegal payments, no bribing referees, just superior management.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Let’s see when he retires.. If he retired tomorrow he’d still be in the discussion.

 

[Yagami]

No.

Cheated as a player.
Barca cheated.
Bayern failed to win CL.
Man City cheated.

Not as good a CV as Ballbag would have you believe.

Basically.

In terms of style implemented by a coach, he may be the best because his football is consistently brilliant, but his achievements are all dodgy. Coupled with the fact that in the one place he didn't manage a team known for cheating he failed to even compete for a European Cup with an already brilliant team.

 

[Bebestation]

No.

Cheated as a player.
Barca cheated.
Bayern failed to win CL.
Man City cheated.

Not as good a CV as Ballbag would have you believe.

Do you feel this way for Barcelona players who cheated like Messi, Xavi or Iniesta?