I have suffered from racism quite a few times in my life. Thats a great post from you by the way, and gives me food for thought as there's a fair bit to digest and being the simpleton that I am, will take me some time to process what you have said. But I applaud you for taking the time to put your views across in such an eloquent and concise way.
I only mentioned his hair in a tongue in cheek way to put a point across that people are entitled to their view. It has nothing to do with race or culture. David Beckham got loads of stick back in the day because of his hair. Using "offensive and obnoxious" to describe his hair is how I have seen people making fun of it in the past and used those words to show how ridiculous that argument is....albeit valid if they feel it is that way.
I've said before about both Jack Grealish and James Maddison that they look like a pair of fannies..I can only speak for myself here, but I'd think twice about saying something like that about any black players hair because there will always be people who want to take it the wrong way and turn it into a case of racism or cultural bias or whatever...Sometimes people are just having some craic...most of the time there is no neferious meaning behind someone taking the piss. It doesnt matter if you are black, brown, white or yellow people are always going to take the piss out of daft hairdos...especially older blokes like me who don't understand fashion.
I'm sure he is a good lad. I've been around professional sportsmen back when I was younger, a couple of whom became top world class players of our chosen sport. I completely understand the dedication and drive that Pogba must posess to have got to where he is Today. Pro atheletes who reach the big leagues are an entirely different creature to the rest of us. But we are talking about racism. It might be worth making a new thread in the general or current affairs section as not to derail this Pogba thread, especially since these last few months in football and wider society.
It's true that Sterling got a lot of stick in his younger days, but he got his head down...some might say he grew up! Now he comes across as a good professional. Same might be said of Lindgard, he could be accused of loosing his way a little with all his social media and brand stuff. But it's nothing to do with race that folk criticise him., or at least not the 99% It's because fans pay what little money they have going to games. or paying ridiculous amounts to pay for the subscription TV. For the vast majority what the fans pay out to follow a football team is a pretty hefty chunk of their salary...so as far as I'm concerned if they see a player who they don't think is giving their all that player will get a lot of shit and rightly so. Look at the abuse Rooney got when he wanted to leave. It's not always about race.
There is no denying that there is a lot of racism in the country. I don't quite grasp what you mean by subconcious racism though. I'd like to hear you expand on that if you could please. Maybe open another thread if you could as it deserves to be talked about.
Again you are right about him being twice the player as Grealish and Maddison, but the only difference is that they don't play for Utd.
Again though man, you did a good post and have opened my mind to a few ideas I've perhaps not thought about before. But still...I don't think all the criticism boils down to his race though.
It's not pointless man, when someone takes the time to put their views across without any nonsense or accusations and explains things intelligently it can open peoples minds and perhaps change views. Look above at Rozay's post, Peoples views need to be heard and not shouted down with accusations or the view that one point of view is better than another without proper debate.
But yeah...that dude saying that at the end of Nevilles speech was terrible and doesn't paint a very good picture of how the media and society in general are treating a serious issue.
Being Autistic it has been said before I can come across as a bit of a simpleton. You just come across as a knob. Dont attack the poster attack the post! 99% of the hate for Pogba comes from him not living up to all his potential and hype thats all...not race!
Sorry, I was quite busy during the day, and wanted to do you the courtesy of responding properly.
I’ll start with the topic of hair again. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone thinking a hairstyle is naff or ridiculous. That doesn’t necessarily make it a racial thing per se. I would never come out with Sagna’s hairstyle, or the famous R9 one - they look ridiculous to me. And your right, people do take the mick out of the likes of Grealish’s hair too. The key difference with a Grealish or Maddison is that the conversation is NEVER ‘if he spent less time focusing on his hair’ or ‘you can understand why fans get annoyed when they see the hair, the dancing and then...’. There is a regular link between Pogba’s hair and his performance and genuine attitude to his profession. ‘Sir Alex would have never stood for this’ and what not. It’s beyond thinking his hair is crap, it’s using the hair he likes to wear to question his professionalism and attitude, which is out of order I think.
With regards to Sterling, I don’t think it’s a case of ‘he got stick when he was younger but then he got his head down and they left him alone’. His getting his head down and becoming one of the top players in the league is not what it should have taken to stop the constant rubbish about ‘bling bling footballer’ and the press counting every penny he spent and trying to create a villain out of him. What if he never became as good as he is now? Does that mean it’s fair game to attack him? The press only stopped because he confronted them and called them out. He was already a top player at that time. There is a famous thread of Sterling headlines that have nothing to do with football, and border on obsessive. All before he called them out, now he’s man of the year.
Even Lingard. I think he’s a shite footballer. I don’t think he’s shite because he likes dancing and is active on social media. I mean, so the feck what? I had no issue with his video in the summer personally, he’s on his holiday, leave him alone.
The general point is the background voice which says what people need to be like. What they need to spend their money on, what they need to drive, how they need to wear their hair, how they need to talk etc. Who decides? As a young black guy myself, I can confidently say that this ideal is not the one that relates to me, and probably Pogba, Sterling or others either. Then you get lazy titles like ‘bad boy footballer’ or ‘bling bling footballer’. It creates a persona that you can only get away with if you are everyone’s favourite footballer, and if not - you need to change who you are to fit. I remember Mourinho defending Pogba in an interview once, and I think he was trying to say the same thing but didn’t articulate it as well. He was asked a question about him, and he said he thinks a lot of the media don’t like him because ‘he is very rich’. I think the nuance of that is more ‘flash’ - all footballers are rich after all, but there is a problem with Pogba’s image.
To put it simply, or in ‘simpleton’ terms
- if I asked if Pogba was a ‘goodie’ or a ‘baddie’ in football narrative - I think it’s fair to say he’s one of the ‘bad guys’. If and when he leaves, many, including his own fans will say ‘good riddance’. If you really ask yourself ‘why is he one of the bad guys?’, I don’t think there’s really a good answer to that.
By subconscious racism, I use that description because I don’t believe the likes of Souness, Neville and many fans are proper racists. I think a lot of the racist tones towards Pogba are probably without realisation. The main thing is that there is a profile that fits, in many ways - and Pogba doesn’t really fit it. The reasons he doesn’t fit it, I think, are for simply because of who he is. His taste in this and that, his gait - these are not ‘bad’ things, but they are different things. The notion that Roy Keane wouldn’t dance or wear his hair like that is an example. So what if he wouldn’t? Maybe Roy Keane has no style? Souness probably feels people should conduct themselves like Keane, Gary Neville, and many fans probably think the same. I’m not sure where that leaves Pogbas, Manes, Depays and Sterlings. ‘Bad boys’ of football, I guess, when in reality, they seem just as much good guys as the rest. Just different. Roy Keane has far more indiscretions than Pogba. But the place that they came from - well they ‘make sense’ to the majority here. It’s passion etc. He tried to break a player’s leg, he threw a punch at Shearer, he criticises his teammates on a TV interview. Yet the masses would say ‘I’d want a player like him in my team’, while the same demographic wouldn’t want a Pogba. But they have the microphone so they get to decide what indiscretions are the ones that are okay. And I’m not having the lame excuse that it’s simply his football. He’s better than most midfielders in this league.
I could go deeper into the issue with the shortage of black managers in British football. I don’t think it’s overt, but it’s subconscious. There is a profile, in my opinion. Tony Adams, Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard - they just ‘look’ like what a football manager would look like. Jermaine Defoe probably doesn’t. A Roy Keane or Gerrard was always going to find it easier to get a chance at a good club in management. They fit the profile. I remember calling out a poster once when Paul Ince got the job as Blackburn manager, following success at MK Dons. The season hasn’t begun, but he said, ‘he’ll come in, do a shite job, and then get sacked and people will say it’s because he’s a black manager’, and I responded by pointing out that the problem was that he had already written him off as a potential manager before a ball was kicked. That’s a bit of a tangent from Pogba, but the point is, in British football, there is a mould that works, and one that doesn’t so much. Pogba, despite seemingly being a nice guy, and very fecking talented for good measure, doesn’t fit it, and the lazy thing is to summarise it as because he has a problem with his attitude.
