I didn't ask you to sympathise with Pogba, the other poster talked about how the fans would support him if things were done differently. And I actually answered that it was a business context and that fan support had no influence on either of the sides involved. Why you talk about care or sympathy when responding to my posts is a mystery.My point is the same, but I don't understand why we should sympathise with Pogba's side.
I assumed that's what you were talking about when you said we should look at the perspective of both sides.I didn't ask you to sympathise with Pogba, the other poster talked about how the fans would support him if things were done differently. And I actually answered that it was a business context and that fan support had no influence on either of the sides involved. Why you talk about care or sympathy when responding to my posts is a mystery.
So we are paying his wages even if he does not play.I don't agree with those who said that we don't hold the card.We hold all the cards.He still has a +2 years contract with us,we can decide not to sale,and there's nothing Pogba and his agent can do.He has a contractual obligation to play for us when fit,but we have no obligation to play him when he is fit.
I want him sold,and I don't want us to cut our nose to spite our face,by keeping a disruptive influence who clearly wants to leave,but saying that we don't have all the cards is not true.
He and Pogba got 27m, it comes from his move from United to Juventus, at the time Juventus didn't had the money to give him a big contract and signing on fee, so they had an arrangement based on future extensions and/or transfers. Pogba and Raiola also got paid when Pogba extended his contract with Juventus. Also the clue in that is that it's Juventus that paid not the buyer, so the theory that you are following would rely on Raiola having that type of agreement with United in 2016.Raiola made 49m€ from Pogbas transfer to United. No way he would have made that amount via a signing-on fee or a run-of-the-mill transfer fee. It is flagship deals like that which lead to sums like 50 odd million.
In his latest podcast, Duncan Castles has said that Raiola has been touting Pogba all over Europe, but they are struggling to find any takers. Seems they are now focussed on either getting him to Juve in a player exchange deal or kicking up a stink to try and make a massively reduced fee (PSG/Real Madrid) seem more palatable for United.We'll sell for less than we should. We don't hold the cards, unfortunately. The alternative is to keep a sulking player on 300k a week, who plays when he feels like it (maybe 10 times a season) and mopes around the field. When we could replace him with someone on less wages who gives 100% every game.
I expect him to go for around £85m.
All of our recent signings have contract extensions that can be triggered by the club if they want. I haven’t heard anyone saying the player needs to agree to it.Ah right, ok. Well if that is true (and i wasn't aware of it), then it's different then. I was just talking about the situation as it currently is. I was just under the assumption that any extentsion would have to be accepted by him. And that's obviously not gonna happen.
I do agree with you in theory. I would love the club to take a strong stance on this come the summer and not be dicked about by him or his agent. But it's just a very delicate balance. If we can't sign that extension without him accepting it first, and it is known that he desperately wants to leave, i just think it diminishes our powers somewhat.
But yeah, we shouldn't be willing to accept him leaving on the cheap. Certainly not for the reported fee of £50m (which is probably nonsense anyway). Hence my original stance in this thread of not accepting any old fee just to get rid of him
When we are discussing about what each sides should do, we have to look at it from each sides pov.I assumed that's what you were talking about when you said we should look at the perspective of both sides.
United alone paid him 22m€ for "facilitating the talks with Juventus over the transfer". Again, flagship deals is what the fat feck wants.He and Pogba got 27m, it comes from his move from United to Juventus, at the time Juventus didn't had the money to give him a big contract and signing on fee, so they had an arrangement based on future extensions and/or transfers. Pogba and Raiola also got paid when Pogba extended his contract with Juventus. Also the clue in that is that it's Juventus that paid not the buyer, so the theory that you are following would rely on Raiola having that type of agreement with United in 2016.
And those alleged 22m can be negotiated all the time in all context, they are not linked to the transfer fee, they are not a percentage of it but a separated fee. If anything you have more chance to get that money if you manage to get him to Madrid for 50m than if Madrid have to pay 150m.United alone paid him 22m€ for "facilitating the talks with Juventus over the transfer". Again, flagship deals is what the fat feck wants.
And it was just a coincidence that this staggering sum happened to be "negotiated" within this mega-deal. Sure thing mate.And those alleged 22m can be negotiated all the time in all context, they are not linked to the transfer fee, they are not a percentage of it but a separated fee. If anything you have more chance to get that money if you manage to get him to Madrid for 50m than if Madrid have to pay 150m.
Fair enough, but for emotionally invested fans, that's not really possible. At least for me it isn't, can't speak for everyone of course.When we are discussing about what each sides should do, we have to look at it from each sides pov.
It wasn't negotiated within this mega deal, it was aside of it. We actually have the reports from Juventus, they received 95m from United and paid 27m to his agent and Pogba among other things. What you are referring to was outside of the mega deal and not actually confirmed.And it was just a coincidence that this staggering sum happened to be "negotiated" within this mega-deal. Sure thing mate.
Who cares.So we are paying his wages even if he does not play.
His value will drop the more we do not play him.
It was literally part of the deal. No 22m for Mino, no Pogba for United.It wasn't negotiated within this mega deal, it was aside of it. We actually have the reports from Juventus, they received 95m from United and paid 27m to his agent and Pogba among other things. What you are referring to was outside of the mega deal and not actually confirmed.
Agreed. I would rather lose him on a free in 2 years than sell him for £50m. Especially to Real Madrid, who think they can bully teams into selling.Who cares.
If he's willing to waste a few years of his career, it's on him. Let him rot in the reserves if he can't get his agent in line.
But that wasn't the topic. The poster I responded to, said that Pogba should do things differently which would grant him the support of the fanbase. My answer was that the support of the fanbase has no weight on the negotiation tables, the club isn't going to give him extra money because of it, they are not going to become more competent either. On the other side the clubs knows that at the end of the day Pogba is only a player, we don't really care about him, we care about the club and whatever happen to Pogba, we will get over it and support the team. What affects the negotiations is what both sides think of each others and how much they want to work together, everyone else is meaningless.Fair enough, but for emotionally invested fans, that's not really possible. At least for me it isn't, can't speak for everyone of course.
And yet it wasn't linked to the transfer fee. Raiola could ask the same amount if Pogba was a free agent, if anything a bidding war would be even easier to create.It was literally part of the deal. No 22m for Mino, no Pogba for United.
Fully aware of how transfers workYou realize Pogba has to agree to it as well, right?
Fair enough.Who cares.
If he's willing to waste a few years of his career, it's on him. Let him rot in the reserves if he can't get his agent in line.
That would be bad for Raiola, no? Wouldn't it benefit him to get a larger transfer fee?Nonsense, no way Raiola is allowed to win this to that extent.
Agree with this. Obviously, it isn’t a positive in as much as I think we’d be (comfortably) in the top four if he had been fit all season. But for all he’s been available, it feels as if we’ve as good as sold him already. So, you would hope that with the right replacement(s), we’d expect to see an improvement if and when these players are brought in.I love Pogba and he's my favourite player here but he's 100% off and its best for both parties, United and him will both be better off.
In a weird way I'm also very happy we've basically played a whole season without him. It means there's nothing to miss, as its as if he's not here anyway. Fred and Mctominay have used his absense to really stamp their authority on the midfield and also create a style of play. We've now added Bruno and those three make up our base.
We have an identity now as a team and don't have to worry about 'fitting Pogba in'. Our main problem is lack of quality in areas and that can be fixed in the summer but Pogba won't be missed. When Rashford was fit we got used to playing without him and were looking pretty good.
He certainly wouldn't be saying Man United ruin players! And that even Pele and Maradona would flop hereThis is why we need the Saudis in. They'd make this horrible fat greedy twunt of an agent of his 'disappear'.
Suffer? Steady now.The latest episode of "The Transfer Window" with Duncan Castles had a really nice tidbit about the whole Pogba situation.
They were talking about how Pogba and Raiola antics, coupled with little playing time, made it harder for them to get the move they both wanted.
Both because he looks less attractive, but also because it would be harder to get a high price United would be content with.
And that they are gambling on a good Euro's to get him sold, so Pogba could be just resting and recovering optimally for only that.
Problem with that for United's perspective is that they would have less time to get in new players after the Euro's, and those players would be more expensive.
I'm tempted to say we should just stay firm on our valuation, but keeping him in the team if he isnt playing or having the right mindset means we wont get a new #10 and will suffer accordingly.
Looking at the way he backpedaled from that embarrassing post the other night (and the way it has been written) I actually have no doubt that Mino was properly pissed at the time of posting.I genuinely don't get the logic why Pogba and his team are coming out with such antics.
Yeah, it became a PR nightmare for him, as he looked like the bad person this time around.Looking at the way he backpedaled from that embarrassing post the other night (and the way it has been written) I actually have no doubt that Mino was properly pissed at the time of posting.
People overrate him as an agent and his "mind games". There was zero mind in what he did.
He did have a lot of outbursts before, even much stronger then this (Pep/Cruyff comments and that both should be in the mental hospital probably tops it in terms of embarrassing), but it was mostly from a position of power or when his player was on the fringes in the club.Yeah, it became a PR nightmare for him, as he looked like the bad person this time around.
His comments after was I didn't know Manutd had a game then? What crap excuse is that?
Yep, he thinks he is something special. Granted he has links to alot of clubs, but he also does tend to piss alot off in comparison to Jorge Mendes or others.He did have a lot of outbursts before, even much stronger then this (Pep/Cruyff comments and that both should be in the mental hospital probably tops it in terms of embarrassing), but it was mostly from a position of power or when his player was on the fringes in the club.
That's not the case here and it could get fairly complicated in terms of doing business this summer. If we all assume that's his main goal. And it looks that way.
That's just not how it works though and is a very simple way to look at it. The circumstances by season are completely different. Rashford and Martial have scored more this season and is making up for the lack of Pogba in the team (to the degree of maintaining previous levels) but he covered for their lack of output previously. Has Rashford and Martial stepped up previously then we likely would have finished higher in those seasons as well.We've come 6th twice with Pogba playing most weeks for us. We aren't doing any worse without him are we? Currently 3pts off 4th and he's barely played this season.
I think this highlights just the lack of impact he's actually had. If anything now we have Bruno in the team.....we miss McSauce more than Pogba now. That says everything.
Time to get rid in the summer. Let the dabbing prat take his Raiola circus elsewhere.
Just sounds like excuses. He's ran out of good faith now, for me has anyway. Sick of him and his agent. MUFC > PogbaThat's just not how it works though and is a very simple way to look at it. The circumstances by season are completely different. Rashford and Martial have scored more this season and is making up for the lack of Pogba in the team (to the degree of maintaining previous levels) but he covered for their lack of output previously. Has Rashford and Martial stepped up previously then we likely would have finished higher in those seasons as well.
I'm absolutely confident that had we had Pogba available for even 50% of the time he has been out, that we would have had better results in that period and therefore be better off now.
Then you account for other teams form which helps form the table and simply saying we finished 6th with Pogba and are there without him means he has no impact just doesn't work.