Dude, get yourself checked. That first paragraph is insane. Yes, Iran kills its own citizens.
Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully
- Thread starter Raoul
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Two things can be true at the same time. A war with Iran would be a bad thing and the Iranian regime is evil.
I don't think you've read up much on Israel's rules of engagement if you think a) they don't mean to kill their own citizens or b) they aren't murdering thousands of Gazans as we speak for the crime of being born within Israel's (occupied) borders and having the wrong ethnicity. They're a murderous, corrupt theocracy who kill their own citizens and a vast number around the region. Just like Iran.
Let's be real here - they thought that the hostages were Palestinians. They were dressed in civilian clothing and waving a white flag. Imagine how many civilians have killed that way.
I'm not talking about the death of Gazans. I'm talking about Israel "Murdering its own citizens". That isn't happening. Of course, Israeli deaths by the hands of Israelis have occured - on October 7 as well, when the IDF desperately tried to regain control from the thousands of Hamas terrorists. But murder? Intentionally killing citizens? No. That's an ugly lie.
Of course. It was probably due to Hamas using all sorts of tricks in order to surprise the IDF. It caused a major shock in Israel and was investigated by both the IDF and the media. It was a major, major screw up and the story of the three hostages escaping and trying to get help was apparently a matter of days rather than minutes or hours.
In any event, how is that relevant to the claim that Israel murders its citizens just like Iran does?
They knew that Hamas had hostages and fired anyway, that's intentionally killing your citizens.
I have spoken to Iranians. Why don't you tell me what happened to Mahsa Amini?
It's a technicality. The sort of distinction the Nazis pulled to justify murdering people. They're not real Israelis, they've only been occupied for 56 years, some of them might not even been born occupied.
And regarding intentional murder, I'll repost the article so you can actually read it this time. There are lots of others though if you look. They knew there could be Israeli civilians there and shot them unarmed, waving a white flag, shirtless and speaking Hebrew.
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/h...olicy-turns-against-its-own-citizens-16302493
It doesn't actually make it better if they weren't Israeli, it's despicable anyway, but they were and the IDF knew there were Israelis there so it was always a risk to intentionally murder civilians.
It's very easy to sit in the comfort of your home and judge soldiers who have been risking their lives in Gaza, seeing friends injured and die, fighting terrorists who have been coming up from tunnels, and also apparently facing terrorists who try to lure the soldiers in different ways - and all this time, unable to locate a single living Israeli hostage.
And yet, it's clear mistakes were made and that what happened is not wanted by anyone in Israel, whether it's the govenment or the IDF. It was a big error. And it is in no way murder, or comparable to what the rulers of Iran do when people protest.
For weeks they have not seen a single living hostage. They did not think those people were hostages. How is that INTENTIONALLY killing your citizens when you didn't know or think they were citizens?
The shooters were wrong. At least one of them directly violated orders. But it's not a case of a country wanting to kill its citizens.
Ok, apologies for judging the army for not following very clear rules of engagement set by international law, and observed pretty well by most nations that aren't utterly depraved, in order to murder their own civilians. I'm the bad guy.
It's very clear that the army did not follow rules. No one is questioning that.
But no matter how much you twist it, it's not comparable in any way to how Iran is murdering its citizens.
And yes, I'd say you are the bad guy if you insist with this lie.
what lie? It's a consistent pattern of not following the rules. That is simply how they operate despite their protestations to the opposite effect.https://www.un.org/unispal/document...received disturbing,commission of a war crime.
The lie that Israel is murdering its citizens and that it's somehow comparable to what Iran is doing to its citizens.
Now, are Israeli soldiers too gun happy? Yes, probably. But that's a seperate issue.
Never said it was the same, I said there are a lot of similarities between the regimes. And there are. Loads in fact. The only massive difference is that you get to vote between 2 mirderous lunatics every few years in Israel and eventually somebody sensible might creep in, but it hasn't happened for a long time now. The guy who tried to genuinely make peace with the Palestinians got assassinated if I remember rightly.
What's your point? Don't bomb Iran? I never objected to that. My specific objection is with how you seem to downplay the Iranian regime's actions.
I don't think it's okay to ignore the evil of the Iranian regime just because the Americans or the Israelis are worse and they definitely are. I do think you're right that there's an attempt to make Iran the boogeyman in the Middle East like Saddam.
I wish things are that simple. The current Iran doesnt happened in vacuum. They are demonized and constantly propagandised by the west they have to do what they do.
Would iran develop nuclear and becoming militant without the economic embargo? America proped Iran to be the bad guy, remember they're arming Saddam to the teeth in the Iran Iraq war.
What the feck is going on in this thread?
You can simaltaneously think that the actions of Israel and the USA are awful, both in Gaza and in general. That a war with Iran would be absolutely awful in every way. That a pursuit of a nuke, if that is what they're doing, makes complete logical sense from a realpolitik perspective.
And that the treatment of their citizens is awful, including when protesting. And that Israel, within what it considers to be its own citizens (though they of course control the Palestinians in a macro sense), obviously treats it's citizens better than Iran does it's own.
What exactly is the purpose or benefit of trying to portray Israel as the absolute worse country in every parameter? Other countries and leaders can and do do awful things.
You can simaltaneously think that the actions of Israel and the USA are awful, both in Gaza and in general. That a war with Iran would be absolutely awful in every way. That a pursuit of a nuke, if that is what they're doing, makes complete logical sense from a realpolitik perspective.
And that the treatment of their citizens is awful, including when protesting. And that Israel, within what it considers to be its own citizens (though they of course control the Palestinians in a macro sense), obviously treats it's citizens better than Iran does it's own.
What exactly is the purpose or benefit of trying to portray Israel as the absolute worse country in every parameter? Other countries and leaders can and do do awful things.
This is an interesting first paragraph, in terms of what you ve chosen as the bar. Seeing as you've had no issue calling whats happening in Gaza a genocide, even though they don't exactly constitute the holocaust, I dont think we need to hit Stalin purge territory to call them out for killing hundreds of prisoners and imprisoning many more.
You'll undoubtedly then call me out as if I'm supporting a war on Iran, to which I'd say feck those who want to start a war with Iran.
I consistently find your posting style about Jews incredibly distasteful. The biggest cheerleaders for controlling Iran that I've seen have been from the sunni gulf states, US neocons and some diaspora Iranians. I don't find that ordinary western Jews are going around constantly calling for war with Iran, anymore than western Caucasians are for instance.
Again, let's be real here. If that soldier knew for sure they were Israeli citizens, they wouldn't have shot. That isn't the same as actively killing your citizens because they're protesting.
Let's also be real, it completely highlights the total disregard for Palestinian lives and the war crimes and massacres that are happening on a regular basis at the moment. The only reason this one got airtime is because they're Jewish Israelis. The likely thousands of innocent Palestinians, who have been killed not even as 'collateral damage' but in cold blood in this way are waved away as propaganda etc.
That’s all rubbish. I worked with someone who has been, alongside her family, ostracised from Iran because of her religion, and has had friends murdered by the state. In the recent protests people she knew (not participating) were sought out, kidnapped and tortured. The regime used the protest as an excuse to subjugate those they see as lesser.
There is always propaganda and geopolitics. Just because those things exist doesn’t mean there aren’t bad actors. It’s not mutually exclusive.
Ignorant people talking confidently about something they know nothing about.
It's quite widespread nowadays.
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Nothing connecting Israel to this, but I'm sure that's who'll get the blame.
It's funny how Amir can admit to lots of things individually but seems unable to give that final step of putting everything together and admitting the obvious: the current israeli regime is a criminal regime that engages daily in murdering innocent civilians and they do it on purpose, not because of small mistakes, because they want to ethnically cleanse that area. The methods may differ slightly, but in essence and in end result, there really is no difference between israel and iran nowadays. Both criminals, both terrorists, both murderous. When what all you have left is discuss semantics and technicalities, you're in big trouble.
Im so far behind what is going on here?
Its pretty normal these days, particularly in the age of Twitter where people are being educated by selective narratives of their own choosing in their feeds.
The odds that this wasn't a Mossad strike to send a message are very low imo.
Probably a part of a new campaign to proactively go after Israeli adversaries, which would align with the hit in Lebanon yesterday.
Many more to come in places like Qatar, Dubai, Turkey etc.
If they get Putin I'll forgive them. If they're bombing no mark footsoldiers then meh.
Unlike yesterday's attack in Lebanon, it doesn't really sound like Israeli style. We'll have to wait and see where it goes.
I wouldn't say it's just the current regime, it has been going on for decades. You only need to remember that at least 10% of the population lives on illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Ethnic cleansing is a general continuous policy of the state.
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Probably best discussed in the Israel-Palestine thread.
First thing I tend to do when dozens of civilians die is joke around about the possible culprits and describe them as adversaries.
Bombing people at a cemetery is out of order imo.
I feel like the fact it's a mass extra judicial execution is the real problem here tbf.
What would Israel gain from killing more than a hundred people at a cemetary? Would cost them the support they have left. Much more likely to be ISIS.
Guys, should we tell him?