Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[stevoc]

This is from an israeli documentary film… I believe these to be the official subtitles.

Yeah I've did a bit of digging and yes seems to be the case. I genuinely don't know what to say about those comments.

 

[LARulz]

Worth a watch, me thinks. It's Piers Morgan, but the interviewee is truly worth listening to if one wants to understand the "arab street".

I do like this guy (Bassem, not Piers). He is much calmer here than on the earlier one cos down the line interviews are always ridiculous for serious discussions

 

[the_cliff]

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[4bars]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

 

[Kaos]

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I keep hearing that these fascist nutters are on the fringes of Israeli society, yet all these quotes I'm reading seem to be coming from ministers?

 

[Conor]

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He is probably just another bad egg, doesn't represent the whole government.

 

[Revan]

I keep hearing that these fascist nutters are on the fringes of Israeli society, yet all these quotes I'm reading seem to be coming from ministers?

Israel's current government is full of religious alt-right crazies.

 

[Gehrman]

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Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.

 

[Kaos]

Israel's current government is full of religious alt-right crazies.

So not on the fringes then? We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost, and Israel's allies are all to happy to appease them.

I don't want to hear a single American or European politician lecture us on the evils of Russia, Iran or any other despotic nation when they're actively enabling the very same evil.

 

[the_cliff]

Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.

I don't speak Hebrew but as it's doing the rounds on socials and no Hebrew speaker has yet to shut it down it looks like it.

 

[Gehrman]

I don't speak Hebrew but as it's doing the rounds on socials and no Hebrew speaker has yet to shut it down it looks like it.

@owlo is it correct?

 

[Pintu]

We were talking about the TV coverage in Germany. It is awfully biased, of course... But you have to salute Markus Lanz for having someone like Deborah Feldman in his show puting pressure on the Vice Chancellor (Lately it was more like crypto-islamophobe Mansour calling for the erasure of Gaza).

“I firmly believe that there is only one legitimate doctrine of the Holocaust. And that is the absolute unconditional defense of human rights for everyone. Point."

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The longer version, where you can get automated translation from Youtube:

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

Is Russia barred from Fifa tournaments?

 

[JPRouve]

So not on the fringes then? We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost, and Israel's allies are all to happy to appease them.

I don't want to hear a single American or European politician lecture us on the evils of Russia, Iran or any other despotic nation when they're actively enabling the very same evil.

They are part of the majority and mainstream.

 

[JPRouve]

Is Russia barred from Fifa tournaments?

They were until earlier last month.

 

[4bars]

Is Russia barred from Fifa tournaments?

Was till last month and they can't play under Russia and their flag I believe I read

 

[Raoul]

They were until earlier last month.

I believe the ban was lifted for youth football, not the NT.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

They were until earlier last month.

Was till last month and they can't play under Russia and their flag I believe I read

Seems sensible. Along the same lines, I don't think national teams should be barred from competitions for the actions of their state.

 

[Drizzle]

We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost

Genuinely didn't know which side you were talking about there.

 

[stevoc]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

I suspect not, which only plays into Russia's propaganda abut the West.

 

[JPRouve]

I believe the ban was lifted for youth football, not the NT.

The point was that yes Russia has been banned. Today it may be partial but they were totally banned until recently.

 

[Kaos]

Genuinely didn't know which side you were talking about there.

The side that's currently engaged in a genocide by all conventional definitions?

 

[Mike Smalling]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

No chance.

 

[Kaos]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

The British government lambasted the FA for not lighting up Wembley in the colours of the Israeli flag, evidently sporting sanctions aren't even remotely a possibility. Not when Palestinian flags are now considered contraband in stadiums across Europe.

 

[Drizzle]

this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished

Really??? Just checking to see if China is there? Yes. Iran? Looks like it. Pakistan is forcibly removing 1.7m refugees this week. Nope, they're still there. Saudi Arabia's brutal repression of Yemen causing more deaths than Israel - surely they'll be kicked out...? Oh no, the fecking world cup is being held there. Speaking of which, Argentina hosted a world cup despite being run by a brutal repressive junta.

And so it goes on. But Israel. It's different. It's uniquely evil. OK.

 

[Drizzle]

The side that's currently engaged in a genocide by all conventional definitions?

Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.

 

[Kaos]

Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.

The difference being one side is currently succeeding based on the sheer attritional loss of life and displacement they're achieving. Hamas' act of terror regardless of its brutality and intention hardly matches the scale of the atrocity currently being engineered by Israel, one that incidentally started decades ago long before Hama's foundation, and one that continues this very second and a rapidly, unprecedented level of intent.

 

[4bars]

Really??? Just checking to see if China is there? Yes. Iran? Looks like it. Pakistan is forcibly removing 1.7m refugees this week. Nope, they're still there. Saudi Arabia's brutal repression of Yemen causing more deaths than Israel - surely they'll be kicked out...? Oh no, the fecking world cup is being held there. Speaking of which, Argentina hosted a world cup despite being run by a brutal repressive junta.

And so it goes on. But Israel. It's different. It's uniquely evil. OK.

You have absolutely a point here.

But also yes, Israel is different. is fully backed up and even promote his idea of "self defense" and is the Palestinian flags that are banned

 

[Irwin99]

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Who the feck is that guy?

 

[Drizzle]

The difference being one side is currently succeeding based on the sheer attritional loss of life and displacement they're achieving. Hamas' act of terror regardless of its brutality and intention hardly matches the scale of the atrocity currently being engineered by Israel, one that incidentally started decades ago long before Hama's foundation, and one that continues this very second and a rapidly, unprecedented level of intent.

Thats fine, but my original comment stands. If you think Israel is run by 'ethnofascist' genocidal thugs, then you'll agree so are Hamas. Only yesterday its leader reiterated their intention to wipe out Israel.

 

[4bars]

Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.

Again,

HAMAS terrorist group

If you equate

Israel state....Terrorist state then?

If we are talking about conventional definitions...

 

[Kaos]

Who the feck is that guy?

Israel's ambassador to Germany.

 

[4bars]

Seems sensible. Along the same lines, I don't think national teams should be barred from competitions for the actions of their state.

Agree on that. Or at least ban only the ones that express support to the war crimes. Was just comparing the 2 situations. But again, 2 wrongs doesnt make it right and I am not asking for Israel sportmen/women to be banned. Just the difference on conflict and the other

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.

I can't speak Hebrew, but you can do a google translate of pictures. If you break it down by taking photographs of the various excerpts you'll find Google translates it as:

"The north of Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes" (soldier in Gaza)

We have to talk about the day after. In my mind's eye we are giving out lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those who were evicted from Gush Katif - B.A.
(no dimensions)

So the first part is presented as a quote from a soldier I guess. The second one I've no idea what "B.A." could mean or "(no dimensions)".

 

[Irwin99]

Israel's ambassador to Germany.

Thanks. Some er, provocative editing to say the least.

 

[Kaos]

Thats fine, but my original comment stands. If you think Israel is run by 'ethnofascist' genocidal thugs, then you'll agree so are Hamas. Only yesterday its leader reiterated their intention to wipe out Israel.

I never once claimed otherwise. But I don't think any connotations of who's currently culpable for a genocide are as ambiguous as you'd claim them to be, from a numbers and balance of power perspective it should be very clear who I was referring to. There are dozens of terrorist factions in the world with nefarious goals, but thankfully they don't have the power and resources to successfully act on them. Unfortunately thats not the same case for an ethno-fascist military superpower that's seemingly received carte blanche to fast track their attempts at essentially cleansing a population under the guises of defending themselves, and with the blessing of the so-called democratic world.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.

Google translate essentially gives the same thing.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Again,

HAMAS terrorist group

If you equate

Israel state....Terrorist state then?

If we are talking about conventional definitions...

Yes, their words and actions are fully backing each other. There is no doubt anymore.

 

[Drizzle]

I never once claimed otherwise. But I don't think any connotations of who's currently culpable for a genocide are as ambiguous as you'd claim them to be, from a numbers and balance of power perspective it should be very clear who I was referring to. There are dozens of terrorist factions in the world with nefarious goals, but thankfully they don't have the power and resources to successfully act on them. Unfortunately thats not the same case for an ethno-fascist military superpower that's seemingly received carte blanche to fast track their attempts at essentially cleansing a population under the guises of defending themselves, and with the blessing of the so-called democratic world.

This has got a bit out of hand. A reminder. You said

We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost

And I replied

Genuinely didn't know which side you were talking about there.

OK I was being a bit glib, but I don't think my point was incredibly controversial.

 

[Kaos]

This has got a bit out of hand. A reminder. You said

And I replied


OK I was being a bit glib, but I don't think my point was incredibly controversial.

Fair. I wasn't meaning to have a go at you, in all honesty I thought you were being deflective by making some pedantic whatabouttery post about Hamas.