It's not as bad as you think... seriously

Crumpsall Red

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I think Moyes is the right man, the most worrying thing for me is that there didn't seem to be a plan and I would have always assumed that United had meticulous plans for transfer windows.

Gill should have stayed on for an extra 6 weeks to support/advise Woodward, I just hope the club thoroughly evaluates what happened and learns from it very quickly.
 

Verminator

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Moyes is in an unusual position when it comes to transfers. He hasn't, like 99% of managers, taken over a struggling team.
What he changes has more chance of working out wrong, compared to someone with a lower starting point.

I'm calmer about it now, buy I was pissed off last night.
I agree Gill could have helped the transition, but he had already decided his future before SAF did his.
 

Stack

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After the dust has settled we have added a cm which means we are not so thin if Carrick is injured. We have a couple of very talented youngsters who are pushing the first teamers a little harder. This first season with Moyes was always going to have some teething problems but in overall terms we are one very healthy club with respect to the future. It would be nice if in January we pick up another quality first team player or two. Disappointing transfer effort this time round, hope we can learn some lessons in time for the january transfer period.
The best bit will be all the wigs showing up at games simply because it will piss off all the moaning cnuts on here who are already hating the idea of wigs. that alone was worth the extra 4 million
 

SER19

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If you could read Bilbao forums you would pick up very quickly that last week he was the best Basque midfielder by a distance and now he is an Aragonés who just happened to be born in Bilbao and a mercenary.

We can engage in all sorts of who did what and what they should have done, then some would bang on about how trustworthy the sources are, etc. It's simple, the love he gets from his fans today is the same Ronney was getting from us a month ago. What happened in between? He made the mistake of jumping at the opportunity to join us.

fine, but thats not exactly us fecking with his career is it. how can man utd be accountable for how fickle any given group of fans are?
 

gulli_G

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Best bit of news is sideways BOB (Cleverly) will be benched.
 

antohan

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fine, but thats not exactly us fecking with his career is it. how can man utd be accountable for how fickle any given group of fans are?
I never said we fecked with his career. We have left him in a tight spot though and he has landed there for being ready and willing to move to us. Of course, it's not our fault, he should have known better and just banged on about how he was Athletic for life. We can't complain then when players don't push the boat trying to get a move here.
 

SER19

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I never said we fecked with his career. We have left him in a tight spot though and he has landed there for being ready and willing to move to us. Of course, it's not our fault, he should have known better and just banged on about how he was Athletic for life. We can't complain then when players don't push the boat trying to get a move here.

i know you didnt, others have. which i think is ludicrous. its people doing what people do in all walks of life when theyre angry about something not going their way, they introduce some abstract moral component as if it stregthens their argument. this was an attempted transfer like thousands of others, just made more frustrating for us by its timing.
 

RedRob

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It's really not such a bad position that we're in; it all depends on the role of players such as Kagawa. A front six of

------Carrick-----Fellaini

Nani--------Rooney------Kagawa

-----------Van Persie

is by no means a dreadful front six (as has been pointed out before). Some people are unhappy to have signed Fellaini because of his supposed lack of technique, but even the mighty Barcelona have Busquets to do their dirty work. Even then, Fellaini scored twice as many as our top scoring midfielder last year. With Vidic getting older and starting to lose the pace required to get back from attacking corners (or simply playing fewer games), it's important to retain something of an aerial threat from attacking set plays. He might not be pinging 50 yard passes onto a penny coin, but he's defensively sound, able to chip in with more than a few goals and has a nasty streak that will let opposition team know that we will not be bullied. Sound like a certain Irishman we all know?

The lack of a creative midfielder's signing has been bandied around a lot, especially in the aftermath of the Liverpool and Chelsea games. What hasn't been fully acknowledged is Kagawa's lack of game time; he's at least as good right now as any of the number 8's we were really linked with (Thiago hasn't broken through yet, Fabregas has gone off the boil, Modric is widely considered the worst La Liga signing of last summer) and will have a lot more to offer the first team this year, having had the benefit of a full year to settle in the Premier League. Signing another player in the number 8/10 position would just limit the chances of a phenomenally talented player whom we already have on the books.

The one thing I do understand people being vexed about is how many times we were linked with big name players and failing to land any of them. In defence of Woodward and Moyes, I'm going to put this down to a desperation to get the fans on board with them as soon as possible. Which inspires more confidence:

"Hey, look, we're still able to sign big name players like Fabregas!"
or
"We're happy with the squad right now."

Fergie/Gill had earned the confidence and the right to say the latter; Moyes/Woodward are some way off this yet. The only problem was the naïveté to come out and say this before concluding the deal - we've had worst executive decisions (passing up the opportunity to sign Ronaldinho for the sake of €2million) but this comes close. We'll get by for now - it's still Fergie's squad with Fergie's mentality - but the time for messing around needs to be considered passed. If Moyes/Woodward have learned lessons from this window and come back all the stronger in 10 months time, so be it. If we repeat all this in 2014, then the reactions we've seen might be more justifiable.
 

RedRob

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I'll stop you there for a second, Busquets is a far, far better player than Fellaini. Far.
I stopped right there too :lol: I have nothing against Fellaini but comparing him to Busquets is way off.
It's not a question of ability, it's a question of their roles within the team. For all that people wax lyrical about Barcelona, tiki taka and the "right" way to play, they too have their destroyers who don't base their play on finely honed technique. Who is superior, Fellaini or Busquets, is not the debate here.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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It's not a question of ability, it's a question of their roles within the team. For all that people wax lyrical about Barcelona, tiki taka and the "right" way to play, they too have their destroyers who don't base their play on finely honed technique. Who is superior, Fellaini or Busquets, is not the debate here.

Busquets is not a "blood and thunder" defensive midfielder. Neither is he a dirty player (well apart from all the diving and play acting). You can't have watched him if you think Fellaini and Busquets have a similar playing style.
 

sullydnl

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It's not a question of ability, it's a question of their roles within the team. For all that people wax lyrical about Barcelona, tiki taka and the "right" way to play, they too have their destroyers who don't base their play on finely honed technique. Who is superior, Fellaini or Busquets, is not the debate here.

You're addressing Fellaini's supposed lack of technique by pointing to Busquets, someone who also plays in the destroyer role. My point is, Busquets is technically excellent and is a brilliant passer as well. He's like a better version of Carrick and would arguably be our best cm in terms of technique if he was here. As such, he's not the best example to use when allaying fears over Fellai's supposed lack of technique. Those who are criticising Fellaini think he should be able to offer more than "steel" in cm, Busquets is an example of exactly what they mean.
 

Will Absolute

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I've just come off RAWK.

The last 24 hours have made them happy at least. Their new favourite joke is 'David Moyes is manager of Manchester United'. Everybody thinks it's hilarious.

They haven't played a blinder in the window themselves, but our atrocity makes up for everything apparently. Football fans are a bitter breed.
 

Rood

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rcoobc

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So two player had to agree to put "their own money" on the table to make the deal happen? And we still failed to sign one of them
 

Sir Matt

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The article still says we paid £27.5m for Fellaini.

He just doesn't get the £4m himself. That doesn't mean we didn't pay them the full amount...
 

Mickeza

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The article still says we paid £27.5m for Fellaini. Reading comprehension...

He just doesn't get the £4m himself. That doesn't mean we didn't pay them the full amount...
With Everton demanding £27.5 million and Moyes unprepared to offer beyond the £23.5 million escape clause in Fellaini’s contract, which expired on July 31 but was due to be reactivated on Jan 1, the 25-year-old broke the deadlock by waiving £4 million in loyalty bonuses to get the deal done in the final hours of the transfer window.
 

Chabon

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The article still says we paid £27.5m for Fellaini.

He just doesn't get the £4m himself. That doesn't mean we didn't pay them the full amount...
It also meant United would pay the £23.5 million figure regarded by Moyes as the limit of his valuation of a player he signed for Everton for £15 million from Standard Liège in 2008.

It casts a starkly different light on the whole business, so expect it to be largely ignored.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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4 million in "loyalty bonuses"? Surely that can't be accurate? His salary at Everton over the whole year must have been around that mark.

If its true though (which after this window who knows what is anymore), in a way Moyes did Everton a favor by not activating the release clause earlier as they'd have lost out. Essentially Fellaini is the one that loses out, but he gets his move so he'll be happy.
 

shaggy

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4 million in "loyalty bonuses"? Surely that can't be accurate? His salary at Everton over the whole year must have been around that mark.

If its true though (which after this window who knows what is anymore), in a way Moyes did Everton a favor by not activating the release clause earlier as they'd have lost out. Essentially Fellaini is the one that loses out, but he gets his move so he'll be happy.
It's a bit sad that we've had to get players who really want to join us force a move. Fellaini loses out for us being twats in the first place and stringing him along all summer before. I know he's getting ridiculous amounts of money anyway but it's arrogant of the club to assume our targets will do that.
 

Sir Matt

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With Everton demanding £27.5 million and Moyes unprepared to offer beyond the £23.5 million escape clause in Fellaini’s contract, which expired on July 31 but was due to be reactivated on Jan 1, the 25-year-old broke the deadlock by waiving £4 million in loyalty bonuses to get the deal done in the final hours of the transfer window.



It also meant United would pay the £23.5 million figure regarded by Moyes as the limit of his valuation of a player he signed for Everton for £15 million from Standard Liège in 2008.

It casts a starkly different light on the whole business, so expect it to be largely ignored.

If that's true. I've seen no other sites reporting that we only paid them £23.5. Everton's site reported that it was a £27.5m fee, not "deal valued at £27.5m". It's pretty explicit. So, the deal could potentially be worth £31.5m rather than £23.5m with the bonus. The Guardian's site lists the cost of the deal to United as £28.51m.

Ogden is the same guy who reported that Fergie was selling DDG last winter because he was done with him.
 

Sarni

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It's nonsense. Him waiving his loyalty bonus means that he cost us £27.5m and Everton got to keep the whole fee, if he hadn't put in a transfer request they would have had to give Fellaini a loyalty bonus of £4m so they would have cashed in £23.5m. If we weren't prepared to offer more than £23.5m then Fellaini giving up on his bonus changes nothing, he still cost us more.
 

Rood

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It's a bit sad that we've had to get players who really want to join us force a move. Fellaini loses out for us being twats in the first place and stringing him along all summer before. I know he's getting ridiculous amounts of money anyway but it's arrogant of the club to assume our targets will do that.
Whatever happens you seem to think it reflects badly on the club - you are just a bit of doom monger arent you?
Personally I think it is great that players want to go out of their way to come to us - that is exactly the type of player I want at my club.


If that's true. I've seen no other sites reporting that we only paid them £23.5. Everton's site reported that it was a £27.5m fee, not "deal valued at £27.5m". It's pretty explicit. So, the deal could potentially be worth £31.5m rather than £23.5m with the bonus. The Guardian's site lists the cost of the deal to United as £28.51m.

Ogden is the same guy who reported that Fergie was selling DDG last winter because he was done with him.
Others are reporting it: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ted-4m-in-cut-price-move-to-Manchester-United

TBH it is always difficult to know the real truth, usually there are installments and bonuses etc and clubs rarely release the details
 

mattsville

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Fellaini is a good addition but I think we needed someone to compliment him like herrera to complete our midfield options, the concern for me is that the teams we put out against chelsea and the dippers were previously more than good enough to at least create goalscoring opportunities, throwing new signings into the mix won't resolve that, we need to tweak things a little and not be so rigid in attack, there are signs of a good collective work ethic in the team and I don't see us losing many goals, if we can keep that and find our way in the final third we will be set, if we don't we are going to draw a load of games
 

datura

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I remember lots of people saying that we overpaid for Carrick at the time as Spurs had picked him up for c£3m a couple of years earlier. The fee as always is largely irrelevant, I'm only interested in how he fits in and performs.
 

Revan

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It's not a question of ability, it's a question of their roles within the team. For all that people wax lyrical about Barcelona, tiki taka and the "right" way to play, they too have their destroyers who don't base their play on finely honed technique. Who is superior, Fellaini or Busquets, is not the debate here.
Holy crap. You couldn't have chosen a worse example to make your post so invalid. You're sure you're not Woody?
 

rcoobc

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I remember lots of people saying that we overpaid for Carrick at the time as Spurs had picked him up for c£3m a couple of years earlier. The fee as always is largely irrelevant, I'm only interested in how he fits in and performs.
Well, the amount he was previously available for is largely irrelevant. Would signing Carroll for 10million be good value because he once cost 30m?
 

sammsky1

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I've just come off RAWK.

The last 24 hours have made them happy at least. Their new favourite joke is 'David Moyes is manager of Manchester United'. Everybody thinks it's hilarious.

They haven't played a blinder in the window themselves, but our atrocity makes up for everything apparently. Football fans are a bitter breed.
I think they did very well, all their incoming buys improve their squad ...
 

antohan

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this seems like an apt thread to post the following ...

1. Several sources now reporting that Fellaini only cost us his £23.5m release clause:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ave-Manchester-United-move-from-collapse.html

2. A plausible explanation of why the Herrera move didnt happen which doesnt involved any imposters:
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/laliga/id/691?cc=5739

so is Woody forgiven? No - I thought not !
It's somewhat better if the 27.5M is meant to be "deal valued at" inc. Fellaini foregoing his bonus. It shouldn't detract from the fact us fecking about cost Fellaini 4M, which he will surely recoup through his wages easily enough.

I never thought the Herrera problem was the imposters, although it's odd they are now supposed to have been hired by Bilbao to "make things go through" :wenger: The problem was we were stupid enough to think we could get him for less than his release clause and our insistence on him not being worth that hints at us making idiots of oursleves yet again in January: Bilbao won't let him go for less than the release clause, they just sat on an unhappy player for a year and let him go on a free just because they would not entertain lower than release clause offers, it's a matter of principle, why can't our people get that into their thick skulls?
 

antohan

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I think they did very well, all their incoming buys improve their squad ...
By all means. Liverpool start from a lower base so some of the players may sound meh, but they have improved in the right areas with players as good as they could aspire to given their lack of European or League challenging footie. Stronger foundations/squad for Ricky to build on, can't fault that. Far from ON though.
 

shaggy

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Whatever happens you seem to think it reflects badly on the club - you are just a bit of doom monger arent you?
Personally I think it is great that players want to go out of their way to come to us - that is exactly the type of player I want at my club.




Others are reporting it: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ted-4m-in-cut-price-move-to-Manchester-United

TBH it is always difficult to know the real truth, usually there are installments and bonuses etc and clubs rarely release the details

After this summer of cock-ups I've lost all faith in the board to do anything right.
 

Jinn

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If Fellaini can just do a Makalele job for us, i think we would be satisfied with the buy. Lets hope the likes of Kagawa and some of the younger players do well.
 

gulli_G

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feck me.

We have some idiots here.
How very mature. So you thinks its not good news that Cleverly will lose his place to Fellaini, that's idiotic, I prefer to see the good side of things, and for me Fellaini will give us more drive than some our stale build up play attributed to the headless chicken that is Cleverly.