Ivan Toney | Banned until 16th January 2024 Stay on Topic!

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,499
Location
Sydney
I think you are underestimating what gambling & money does to you. This is a man who after all this is still betting on other sports. What if he is in a position to pass for an easy goal but is shooting because he desperately needs to score , is that not a problem ?
it's a problem but it harms his team not benefits them, so can't be considered match fixing

I agree with the ban I'm just saying it looks stupid (likely caused by his addiction) rather than maliciousness.. so its enough
 

Superden

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
2,050
he was making bets using other parties, and clearly they've ratted on him. more to come me thinks.
 

Trumpeter Whydah

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 14, 2022
Messages
290
Supports
Full Members
8 months looks a lenient sentence, considering therapy of gambling addiction usually takes longer than that.
 

MegadrivePerson

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
1,449
There were 13 bets on his team to lose, 11 of those were Newcastle when he was out on loan and 2 were Wigan when he was on loan there but not in the squad. So it's obviously not great, but not really close to match-fixing or in a position to influence the result either.
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.

On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.

I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
40,154
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.

On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.

I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
At first I thought, he got lucky with the ban. But yeah, reading this, has been interesting.

Also at same time, he needs help especially if hes addicted to it. And im sure hes not the only one doing this. (Without any evidence and just based on numbers and assumptions, i wouldnt be surprised if there are many players making big bets through third parties.)
Its all a mess because Toney is a walking gambling advert (their sponsors are hollywood bets ffs). Everywhere is plastered with betting and then they think its ok cos you got that big head advert ending it with 'please gamble responsibly'.

Also im going with the theory that players who score and remove their shirt are yellow carded because its 'hiding the sponsors'.
 

MegadrivePerson

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
1,449
At first I thought, he got lucky with the ban. But yeah, reading this, has been interesting.

Also at same time, he needs help especially if hes addicted to it. And im sure hes not the only one doing this. (Without any evidence and just based on numbers and assumptions, i wouldnt be surprised if there are many players making big bets through third parties.)
Its all a mess because Toney is a walking gambling advert (their sponsors are hollywood bets ffs). Everywhere is plastered with betting and then they think its ok cos you got that big head advert ending it with 'please gamble responsibly'.

Also im going with the theory that players who score and remove their shirt are yellow carded because its 'hiding the sponsors'.
I know people that have gambling addictions and its very difficult to get it under control.

Football is bombarded with it. The removal of betting companies as shirt sponsors is a step in the right direction but doesn't go far enough in my opinion.
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,065
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.

On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.

I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
Was he in the squad and playing at Newcastle?

If he was then I think he's a lucky boy because those are games he could have directly affected
 

MegadrivePerson

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
1,449
Was he in the squad and playing at Newcastle?

If he was then I think he's a lucky boy because those are games he could have directly affected
No.

He was on loan at Wigan at the time.

This is from the mirror online


"The FA’s independent commission said that Toney placed 13 bets on his own team between August 2017 and March 2018 and 11 of those were against Newcastle, his parent club, while he was on loan at Wigan. But the independent commission found that he did not gamble on any games in which he was playing himself.
It stated: "There were 13 bets on Mr Toney’s own team to lose in 7 different matches between 22 August 2017 and 3 March 2018. Mr Toney did not play in any of those matches where he placed bets against his loan club as he was not in the match squad or against his parent club as he was on loan"
 

IRN-BRUno

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
1,089
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.

On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.

I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
Yeah, doesn't help with some of the headlines which are misleading. Sky Sports for example have "Toney diagnosed with gambling addiction | 13 bets on his team to lose"

Without reading any further you just assume that's games he played in.

He obviously has a problem and seems to have just started getting the support he needs, it's not really helpful to have journalists trying to make it more sensational.
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,065
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
No.

He was on loan at Wigan at the time.

This is from the mirror online


"The FA’s independent commission said that Toney placed 13 bets on his own team between August 2017 and March 2018 and 11 of those were against Newcastle, his parent club, while he was on loan at Wigan. But the independent commission found that he did not gamble on any games in which he was playing himself.
It stated: "There were 13 bets on Mr Toney’s own team to lose in 7 different matches between 22 August 2017 and 3 March 2018. Mr Toney did not play in any of those matches where he placed bets against his loan club as he was not in the match squad or against his parent club as he was on loan"
OK - that's not as bad
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,065
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
Yeah, doesn't help with some of the headlines which are misleading. Sky Sports for example have "Toney diagnosed with gambling addiction | 13 bets on his team to lose"

Without reading any further you just assume that's games he played in.

He obviously has a problem and seems to have just started getting the support he needs, it's not really helpful to have journalists trying to make it more sensational.
He does have a problem but he's not helping himself if he's continuing to gamble on other sports
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
Scout
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
49,448
Location
W.Yorks
There were 13 bets on his team to lose, 11 of those were Newcastle when he was out on loan and 2 were Wigan when he was on loan there but not in the squad. So it's obviously not great, but not really close to match-fixing or in a position to influence the result either.
If he's in contact with the people playing in the game - whilst highly unlikely - I don't think you can totally rule out him being in a position to influence... Even if it's as small as giving a teammate some bad advice or something to that affect.
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
14,966
Hes lucky he wasn't banned for life.

Made 16 bets on his own team to win 15 different games

Bet 13 times on his own team to lose in 7 different matches - (Did not play in any of these)
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
He does have a problem but he's not helping himself if he's continuing to gamble on other sports
You have to believe him but a lot of people who get in trouble like this suddenly become gambling addicts or alcoholics.
I know a dock head who stole credit card information from the place he worked and as soon as he was caught he checked himself into gambling rehab even though gambling had feck all to do with it
 

Canuckred64

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
3,626
Location
Canada
If it's true he bet on Brentford to lose he should have been banned for life. As a kid living in Sheffield I remember 3 Wedneday players betting on Wednesday to lose one game in 1962 and all 3 were banned for live and sent to jail for 4 months.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063

Giving clearly false answers to the investigation isn't great either.
 

Josh 76

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
5,538
If it's true he bet on Brentford to lose he should have been banned for life. As a kid living in Sheffield I remember 3 Wedneday players betting on Wednesday to lose one game in 1962 and all 3 were banned for live and sent to jail for 4 months.
He didn’t play in those games.
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,065
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
You have to believe him but a lot of people who get in trouble like this suddenly become gambling addicts or alcoholics.
I know a dock head who stole credit card information from the place he worked and as soon as he was caught he checked himself into gambling rehab even though gambling had feck all to do with it
There's evidence on his phone and he was up before a shrink but yeah
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
40,154
You just know paddy power are gonna try contact him to do an advert for them.

Also his full name initials :nervous:
 

Cantonagotmehere

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
3,293
Location
Charm City, MD
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.

On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.

I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
I for sure feel bad for him as a person. Hearing he bet on his own team makes me understand the length of the ban, and it could have been worse. I am sure he will be back ready to roll after 8 months.
 

Kingofwinners

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2022
Messages
143
I feel really bad for him, gambling is a horrible addiction and the constant promotion of gambling companies through football is disgusting. Banning Toney is punishing the user not the pusher.

That said it’s hard to argue against a long ban, just hope the Premier league have the guts to take a consistent view when they look at City’s actual cheating compared to Toney betting creating a situation where there could be a perception of an incentive for potential cheating.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,240
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
If he's in contact with the people playing in the game - whilst highly unlikely - I don't think you can totally rule out him being in a position to influence... Even if it's as small as giving a teammate some bad advice or something to that affect.
I don’t think anyone is going to go to a player on loan for advice
 

Kellyiom

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Isle of Man Utd
Crazy right? I was thinking no way, gotta be a wiki joke edit or something
That is just incredible! I'm just speechless.
I don't know what that tweet was trying to say, his lawyer or agent surely couldn't recommend that?
I think he's wise to keep his head down, he could have been facing a lot worse. His employer could sue gross misconduct by saying he couldn't possibly be 100% focused with all that going on.

I worked at a high level in investment business and it was a contract requirement not to buy any investment for any reason without prior approval, regardless of whether it would be fine in respect of the law.

I'm surprised players contracts aren't managed like this tbh, sure they will now.

But yes the hypocrisy of the sport and its connection to betting is rank.
 

Devil You Know

New Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2023
Messages
1,225
Location
bed

He says he wants to play at the highest level. But then he goes on to say he's a Liverpool fan, who is Liverpool "at heart".

In fairness, he does also add that he likes the way Arsenal play, and was a Berbatov fan in the past (01:21:41).

I think if he's going anywhere, Anfield is his preference. We can forget about this one, lads and ladettes.
 
Last edited:

top1whoisman

Meet the press(conference)
Scout
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
18,248
Location
Helsinki
Fair enough for him being honest about the lack of work ethic when he was younger etc.

Don’t agree with his views that it was wrong that he missed the World Cup because of the FA coming out with the allegations and then him being punished kind of twice for getting the ban later.

That’s how allegations work. They then need to investigate the allegations. It was the correct call by the FA because if those allegations came out in public during the WC through the media, it would’ve been too much chaos and drama around the team.

This was also their way of proactively controlling the discussions on ”why wasn’t Toney picked?”. Again all about trying to keep the whole camp and the media around it optimal for England to do well. Which is the FA’s responsibility.

Fair enough I can understand him being down on missing the WC but mate, you caused this by your own actions.

Toney seems very defensive about the whole subject, which I can understand to a degree. Just doesn’t sit right with me that he either directly or indirectly shifts a lot of blame on the FA and the media (they do deserve some of it), but fails to actually own up and take responsibility for doing something that is against the rules.

Finally I hope he becomes more mature and less stubborn when it comes to asking for help and accepting therapy etc., if he needs it in the future. He seems to hold on to this tough guy image but I genuinely hope it doesn't end up costing him in terms of his mental wellbeing.
 
Last edited:

thisISben

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
3,426
Location
Port Talbot, South Wales
Anyone else get the feeling he isn’t being 100% honest?

He doesn’t quite own it all, claiming he doesn’t remember the bets against his own team (the most damming charge) to lose, but accepts it anyway just to get it all done.

Mentions they’d have people visit the clubs pre season to discuss betting but because they don’t explicitly say ‘do not bet’ he didn’t realise they actually couldn’t. Despite it being obviously not allowed, and with surely plenty of examples of other players accused of match fixing around the world over the years.

Used someone else to bet for him not because he’s a Premier League footballer but because he didn’t want his mother finding out, which I can somewhat understand having had an addiction previously, but you’re telling me he really didn’t know it was forbidden?

Claims it was all set up perfectly so he would miss the World Cup. When asked if they made an example out of him he thinks he was, and doesn’t think that’s right. They should absolutely make an example out of him, it won’t have the same ring to it if they banned a League 2 player. They need to show that you absolutely cannot do this on the game, and these are the consequences.

Just own the thing, nothing wrong with being addicted and hopefully he receives the help now but he will never get over it if he can’t be 100% honest about it all.

What I will also say, I do agree with him regarding not being able to train with the team. Having the right people around you can massively help in difficult situations and isolating him will definitely make him suffer more. Ban him from playing, fine him, but let him at least have the daily support of his team mates.
 

top1whoisman

Meet the press(conference)
Scout
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
18,248
Location
Helsinki
Anyone else get the feeling he isn’t being 100% honest?

He doesn’t quite own it all, claiming he doesn’t remember the bets against his own team (the most damming charge) to lose, but accepts it anyway just to get it all done.

Mentions they’d have people visit the clubs pre season to discuss betting but because they don’t explicitly say ‘do not bet’ he didn’t realise they actually couldn’t. Despite it being obviously not allowed, and with surely plenty of examples of other players accused of match fixing around the world over the years.

Used someone else to bet for him not because he’s a Premier League footballer but because he didn’t want his mother finding out, which I can somewhat understand having had an addiction previously, but you’re telling me he really didn’t know it was forbidden?

Claims it was all set up perfectly so he would miss the World Cup. When asked if they made an example out of him he thinks he was, and doesn’t think that’s right. They should absolutely make an example out of him, it won’t have the same ring to it if they banned a League 2 player. They need to show that you absolutely cannot do this on the game, and these are the consequences.

Just own the thing, nothing wrong with being addicted and hopefully he receives the help now but he will never get over it if he can’t be 100% honest about it all.

What I will also say, I do agree with him regarding not being able to train with the team. Having the right people around you can massively help in difficult situations and isolating him will definitely make him suffer more. Ban him from playing, fine him, but let him at least have the daily support of his team mates.
Very much agree with everything you just wrote.
 

The Cat

Will drink milk from your hands
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
12,051
Location
Feet up at home.
Also thought it was quite shitty of him openly discussing moving on from the club. He's got no loyalty by the sound of him either.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,360
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
Also thought it was quite shitty of him openly discussing moving on from the club. He's got no loyalty by the sound of him either.
His actions have ensured he never gets a move to a top team unfortunately for him. He'll be one of those strikers like Beattie or Johnson who are good but never get the big move.
 

Delano

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
1,482
The interview completely put me off the idea. He's full of shit.

To claim he put bets through friends accounts, "so his parents didn't see it", whilst simultaneously claiming he "didn't know you couldn't bet on football" is nonsense of the highest order.

In fairness to Steven Bartlett, he clearly didn't buy it. Neither did the FA.
 
Last edited: