Jadon Sancho Borussia Dortmund loan watch (Has ended ten Hag)

Abizzz

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Not all of us. Some can see what a shambles this has been from all involved.....
Yup.

The truly bizarre thing is seeing people constantly slate ETH in every match day thread, every other other thread, but then suddenly have any excuse lined up the moment Sancho's name is mentioned...

Sancho is gone and will never be near the pitch for united again (and it's for the better). Hopefully the same can be said about ETH sooner than later.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
I’d absolutely love it if that was the case because if he joined any of those clubs in the summer it would mean we’d have got a shit ton of cash for him in order to let him go to a arrival. It would be the ideal scenario, we recoup the money we paid for him while ridding ourselves of the prick, while one of our rivals get a lazy bastard with a bad attitude that’s more interested in playing games of fifa than actual football matches. Win, win all round. :)
 

NLunited

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
No top PL club is going to go near him.
 

Doracle

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
Sancho is ideal for kick and rush football. He just needs it to be against high lines with slow defenders, so his relative lack of pace isn’t a problem.

Where he struggles is when tightly marked, with the responsibility to pick out a pass under defensive pressure or beat a top class defender. His thought process is too slow, passing technique isn’t good enough and he doesn’t have the pure speed to compensate.

He has been horribly exposed in England so far and, much as United have issues, that’s primarily on him. Perhaps with more confidence, he won’t look so hesitant and out of his depth but I’m doubtful. Sadly, I think he will probably fail any time he tries to return to the premier league.
 

FrankDrebin

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Considering the amount of space afforded in the BL, id say there's more 'kick and rush' football being played there.
 

RORY65

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We can only dream of playing the kind of sophisticated football you get in the Bundesliga
I think it's fair to say that United don't play anything near as progressive a brand of football as the very best teams in England, even when we've got results like last year, and we almost play a different sport to the best teams around but I think it's nonsense to believe that Sancho would excel with them because he's just not good enough.

There's not a chance he would start for City, Arsenal or Liverpool, he might make more of an impact in his minutes for a more dominant side but his lack of any sort of athleticism and the fact he doesn't seem to fancy it when challenged means he would be behind better players in the pecking order at those clubs.
 

afrocentricity

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Yup.

The truly bizarre thing is seeing people constantly slate ETH in every match day thread, every other other thread, but then suddenly have any excuse lined up the moment Sancho's name is mentioned...

Sancho is gone and will never be near the pitch for united again (and it's for the better). Hopefully the same can be said about ETH sooner than later.
I'm not ETH out but the red tinted specs are so cringe, as if the man is infallible in any situation. Clearly, he's not doing great in a lot of different aspects right now... It is what it is!

if you've gotta pretend that he's always right (at this point) just for your arguement to make sense, maybe you should revaluate the actual arguement you're trying to make.
 

TheReligion

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about and have rightly been shot down.
 

Zen86

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I think it's fair to say that United don't play anything near as progressive a brand of football as the very best teams in England, even when we've got results like last year, and we almost play a different sport to the best teams around but I think it's nonsense to believe that Sancho would excel with them because he's just not good enough.

There's not a chance he would start for City, Arsenal or Liverpool, he might make more of an impact in his minutes for a more dominant side but his lack of any sort of athleticism and the fact he doesn't seem to fancy it when challenged means he would be behind better players in the pecking order at those clubs.
Yes, we're pants. But the German league is turd all the same.
 

Rockets Redglare

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
It wouldn’t matter who he played for in the league, he doesn’t have the pace, work rate or strength (either physical or mental) to cope.
You honestly think he’d get in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He wouldn’t stand a chance.
 

AltiUn

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.
Oh the irony :lol:
 

AltiUn

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Sancho doing well is a win-win for United, either he comes back reinvigorated and ready to tear up the league or we get a hefty fee for a fee who hasn't delivered for us.
 

Zehner

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It wouldn’t matter who he played for in the league, he doesn’t have the pace, work rate or strength (either physical or mental) to cope.
You honestly think he’d get in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He wouldn’t stand a chance.
In his Dortmund form, he'd definitely play for them. You don't need pace and strength to be an elite player (though Sancho's pace isn't bad either).
 

Hammondo

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No he didn’t. Ten hag said other players had a higher level than Sancho in training that week, which is why he didn’t get picked. It simply means someone else worked harder than you, not that you didn’t work hard.
He didn't even mention other players.
 

Irwin99

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No he didn’t. Ten hag said other players had a higher level than Sancho in training that week, which is why he didn’t get picked. It simply means someone else worked harder than you, not that you didn’t work hard.
I find it incredible that people act like this was some Jose level public insult (see him recently suggesting again that Chris Smalling wouldn't play through pain again for example) when it was so so mild, along the lines of 'I didn't pick Sancho because others were better in training'- I mean, good god! if that's an insult!

I'm really not sure about EtH anymore, but i do feel that he was brought in to set certain standards after the players were pretty disgraceful in Ole and Ralf's final season and he gave Ronaldo and Sancho more than one chance to redeem themselves. He also let Mctominay and Maguire back in the squad after being linked with moves away from the club which suggests he is fair and things are based on merit.
 

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Bubz27

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Thank goodness there are such sharp observers as you. I mean, you missed the fact that this "10 second clip" was in super slow mo but I guess that was just hard to spot ;)

And who can blame you, I mean it is obvious you would never get that much time and space against an EPL team, let alone a top 6 club.
That high line does you happen in the EPL

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JC6GvHs9W2s
Again, stupid point. Both there are quick passing moves leading to a player running in behind. Sancho is receiving the ball then running at defenders with not one even remotely close or thinking to close him down.

Plenty of pros who've played in the Prem and abroad note how much less time you get in this league compared to others. Don't take it personally. You might have a new champion this year which proves Bundesliga isn't one sided. Celebrate that.
 

FrankDrebin

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Again, stupid point. Both there are quick passing moves leading to a player running in behind. Sancho is receiving the ball then running at defenders with not one even remotely close or thinking to close him down.

Plenty of pros who've played in the Prem and abroad note how much less time you get in this league compared to others. Don't take it personally. You might have a new champion this year which proves Bundesliga isn't one sided. Celebrate that.
:nervous:
 

HTG

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The refusal by some to accept that the Bundesliga obviously has a different style than than the prem, one that is more attacking focused, is very strange. Of course attackers have more space because of that. And obviously that’s part of the reason why there are more goals in the Bundesliga than other leagues have. It’s strange to me that someone would desperately try to refute something, that isn’t just obvious, but also in no way a judgement of quality. It’s simply a different style. And yes, players like Sancho benefit from this. The same way defenders in Italy benefit from the different style the Serie A has. Which is more defensive minded.
 

Zehner

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Again, stupid point. Both there are quick passing moves leading to a player running in behind.
True but what if I slowed the replay down so that it takes 10 seconds for those passes? Wouldn't look so quick, then!


Sancho is receiving the ball then running at defenders with not one even remotely close or thinking to close him down.

Plenty of pros who've played in the Prem and abroad note how much less time you get in this league compared to others. Don't take it personally. You might have a new champion this year which proves Bundesliga isn't one sided. Celebrate that.
Let's be serious for a second. He received a pass, took a nice first touch and started dribbling at the defender. That happens 10 times in every EPL game. Only that now somebody slowed the clip down and you guys lose your mind because you see what you want to see. I never read anything like that when Neymar did it.

It is a testament to how insecure many posters in here are when it comes to the Bundesliga that this needs pointing out. I mean, not eve a single user has pointed out that the "10 second clip" is only 10 seconds long because somebody slowed it down.
 

Zehner

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The refusal by some to accept that the Bundesliga obviously has a different style than than the prem, one that is more attacking focused, is very strange. Of course attackers have more space because of that. And obviously that’s part of the reason why there are more goals in the Bundesliga than other leagues have. It’s strange to me that someone would desperately try to refute something, that isn’t just obvious, but also in no way a judgement of quality. It’s simply a different style. And yes, players like Sancho benefit from this. The same way defenders in Italy benefit from the different style the Serie A has. Which is more defensive minded.
I don't think anybody is refusing to accept that. People are not getting worked up about reasonable statements like these.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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But there is definitely some truth about this. Was thinking about this constant discussion on the weekend. Could you image this scenario: Burnley (weakest PL away team) is leading 1-0 away against Manchester City and commits five players to press City in their own half in the 94th minute? I honestly can't, but that's what Bremen did against Bayern.
I agree there was truth in the observations lots of clubs were going all-in on the high intensity pressing and high lines, which favoured certain types of player more than the other top leagues. It was certainly a better criticism than the usual "time and space" stuff, which is far too easy to bullshit with, and not something you can just easily split between entire leagues, as is often implied.
 

Rojofiam

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Thank goodness there are such sharp observers as you. I mean, you missed the fact that this "10 second clip" was in super slow mo but I guess that was just hard to spot ;)

And who can blame you, I mean it is obvious you would never get that much time and space against an EPL team, let alone a top 6 club.
I watched an hour long interview with Szoboszlai not long ago after he signed for Liverpool. He himself said that in the Bundesliga, he always had twice as much time on the ball to make a decision, and a lot more space in front of him after receiving the ball.

It's not some myth that die-hard PL fans try to sell as the real thing, the players and managers are very aware of this as well.

In England, you will be closed down quickly and you won't have that much time on the ball to make a decision.

The clip you posted is from a game where Arsenal played like City usually does at Old Trafford, and they dominated us. They just made some mistakes and we had to be very clinical to win that game. Most teams in the league will not play such a high line at Old Trafford, because they know that even during this banter era of ours we've had deadly transition players like Bruno or Rashford. And Arsenal have very athletic defenders like Saliba, White or Gabriel who can play high up the pitch. White almost got back in time to stop this Rashford goal.

What I said doesn't make the Bundesliga a bad league, though, and Sancho could be a useful player for a side that is a well-drilled unit against low-blocks and knows how to unlock them. His link-up play is actually very good, but that's not enough to make it in the PL. Van de Beek also has really good link-up play in tight spaces, but he struggled even at Everton. I bet he will find way more success in Frankfurt.

I don't doubt that Sancho would look way better and actually be useful for City, Arsenal or Liverpool. Not as a guaranteed starter, though. More of an impact sub with some starts here and there. It's just that he could never replicate his BL numbers even at those clubs, because there are very few players in the PL putting up 30-40 G/A in the league and Sancho isn't someone of that mould who we've just ruined. He's just not a good fit currently and he's probably burned his bridges at United with his totally unnecessary hissy fit on social media.
 
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stefan92

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Van de Beek also has really good link-up play in tight spaces, but he struggled even at Everton. I bet he will find way more success in Frankfurt.
I bet he will be benched after AFCON when Shkiri and Chaibi are back.
 

Bubz27

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True but what if I slowed the replay down so that it takes 10 seconds for those passes? Wouldn't look so quick, then!




Let's be serious for a second. He received a pass, took a nice first touch and started dribbling at the defender. That happens 10 times in every EPL game. Only that now somebody slowed the clip down and you guys lose your mind because you see what you want to see. I never read anything like that when Neymar did it.

It is a testament to how insecure many posters in here are when it comes to the Bundesliga that this needs pointing out. I mean, not eve a single user has pointed out that the "10 second clip" is only 10 seconds long because somebody slowed it down.
I think it's more to do with people not being able to stand Sancho, rightfully so in my opinion.
 

ThierryHenry14

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I would say Sancho is probably technical enough to play for Arsenal or may be Liverpool/City based on his BVB form. He was trained in City academy so he should have no problem play in that system. The problem probably is his transfer fee and wages.
 

Redstain

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
I think what Sancho struggles with the most is the intensity of the league. The high octane pressurized environment where it can get physical and many players are systematically outmanaged through the opposition tactically. Managers like Pep have spoken on this and also Kevin Prince who came from hertha to Spurs mentioned the same.

I also think German football is good, there's been a massive influx of the philosophy and culture in the English league and throughout Europe stemming from that region which has proven itself successful.

But the judgement of Sancho has nothing to do with comparative leagues but a player who lacks the mentality and application to play at a certain intensity, for that reason he wouldn't stand a chance at Arsenal, Liverpool or City.
 

ThierryHenry14

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But the judgement of Sancho has nothing to do with comparative leagues but a player who lacks the mentality and application to play at a certain intensity, for that reason he wouldn't stand a chance at Arsenal, Liverpool or City.
If Kai can do it in Arsenal, Sancho probably can too. It really depends on the coach how he wants to use a player in his system.
 

RORY65

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If Kai can do it in Arsenal, Sancho probably can too. It really depends on the coach how he wants to use a player in his system.
Can he? There's not a chance that Sancho is getting in your team ahead of Saka or Martinelli.
 

FrankDrebin

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I think if you put Sancho into a well oiled machine, preferably one which has its philosophy steeped in possession, front foot football, he'd do fine but I dont think he'd standout.
Its when that team is out of possession, is when the real question marks may arise over his application and work ethic.

I also think he needs to be around experienced level-headed pros/ players/individuals that would try to get the most out of him and keep him relatively grounded. Reus , from the outside, seems to have played a big part in Jadon's time at BVB. There's a obvious connection there between the two.
 
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