Jadon Sancho | Howard Nurse: Dortmund's resolve to be tested finally.

UnitedFan93

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
208
Someone else on this forum that doesn't understand how debt works at major corperations.
Of course the debt is manageable and brings some tax benefits, however being half a billion in debt still isn't exactly ideal, especially with OT needing hundreds of millions spending on it (check out Madrid's plans for the Bernabeu).

Both City and Liverpool are closing the gap financially and both have very little debt. If we decide to pay off some of the debt in the future it means money is taken away from potential signings, investment in OT etc, and we fall behind on and off the pitch relative to our rivals.

Anyway back to Sancho...
 

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,429
Location
UK
This will get done next weekend is my guess its got to happen soon if August 10th is really deadline day. I wonder what will happen with James now will he rotate with Sancho or be loaned out ?
Surely James will rotate with Rash on the left, Mason with Sancho on the right? Ultimately, I see us getting a better backup for Rashford on the left, possibly next summer.
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
7,223
Surely James will rotate with Rash on the left, Mason with Sancho on the right? Ultimately, I see us getting a better backup for Rashford on the left, possibly next summer.
Surely not?! James is the perfect depth to cover Rashford in my opinion
 

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,429
Location
UK
Surely not?! James is the perfect depth to cover Rashford in my opinion
I just don't think he offers much apart from his pace. We need someone to make Rashford look over his shoulder, otherwise he won't push himself. Maybe James will get a loan away next summer. Either way, I don't see it as a priority position for this summer. RWF, CF, CAM, CB, LB are the positions we should be looking at for now. But of course, we will end up with just: RWF, CAM, maybe CF.
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
926
Fred & Maguire are a couple more to be fair.
Maguire they still bid 70 million for and then didn’t buy anyone to replace Kompany. So yes, I’d agree we outbid them, but who was the cheaper alternative that summer?

Fred, they had a 50 million bid rejected in January and then never returned for him in the summer window.
 

Alemar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
2,925
Surely not?! James is the perfect depth to cover Rashford in my opinion
James is simply not a good player by Man Utd standards, that is the problem. He may play, but his performance is usually average or worse.
 

Adcuth

Full Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,592
Surely James will rotate with Rash on the left, Mason with Sancho on the right? Ultimately, I see us getting a better backup for Rashford on the left, possibly next summer.
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
3,134
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
I'd love to know what team you were watching this season if you came out of it thinking that Rashford would be a more 'consitent' CF than Martial...

Surely not Manchester United :lol:
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
21,103
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
Rashford as CF.... ok
 

MalcolmTucker

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,187
I just don't think he offers much apart from his pace. We need someone to make Rashford look over his shoulder, otherwise he won't push himself. Maybe James will get a loan away next summer. Either way, I don't see it as a priority position for this summer. RWF, CF, CAM, CB, LB are the positions we should be looking at for now. But of course, we will end up with just: RWF, CAM, maybe CF.
I don't think it's necessary to replace James; if Rashford is injured, Greenwood can come in and Sancho replaces Rashford on the left + Martial has shown he can play that position as well.

While it would be nice to have a squad of top top players, I think James is adequate as our 5th choice attacker.
 

NecssryEvil

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
397
Surely not?! James is the perfect depth to cover Rashford in my opinion
I agree. He did well at the start of the season on the left. I think people are being a little impatient with him, he is just 22, huge step up in competition and joined at a time United is still figuring out who they are as a team (inconsistency throughout). The last bit has had an effect on several players and why I think the Sancho signing would be huge. United would finally have the starting front six dialed in and decent to solid backups in defined roles. Man I hope this one doesn’t slip through.
 

mav_9me

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
5,324
I think it'll be done by this time next week personally, if not officially, but all but official to the point where even the most negative of muppet can see its dealio done. Could be wrong, might take a bit longer, but most things seem to point to this not dragging out much further than that.
Reads like a journalists/ITK tweet.
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
1,698
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
Interesting, by the way have you watched any of our matches in the last two years to make you think Rashford will be a consistent center forward?
 

bsCallout

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
758
James is simply not a good player by Man Utd standards, that is the problem. He may play, but his performance is usually average or worse.
That seems very premature.

Over the season he shown some glimpses of his attributes. It is his first season anywhere near this level, at a young age and in the same year his Dad passed away too. Just for context it took me 18 months before I realised how affected I'd been by my own fathers death.

I think there is enough reason to think James could prove himself to be a very useful player here. A seasoned pro in Lingard completely went off the boil in part due to his mums depression. We can't just write off a young player like James.

Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, James & Ighalo should be a great bunch of players to have available next season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ødegaard

Infestissumam

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
1,356
Location
Austria
hope there'll actually be some news in the upcoming days. With Sancho returning to training tomorrow and their apparent deadline only a week away, there should be some movement this week.
 

mav_9me

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
5,324
That seems very premature.

Over the season he shown some glimpses of his attributes. It is his first season anywhere near this level, at a young age and in the same year his Dad passed away too. Just for context it took me 18 months before I realised how affected I'd been by my own fathers death.

I think there is enough reason to think James could prove himself to be a very useful player here. A seasoned pro in Lingard completely went off the boil in part due to his mums depression. We can't just write off a young player like James.

Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, James & Ighalo should be a great bunch of players to have available next season.
Agreed.

Regarding James, agree abt writing him off. In the first few games people were saying signing of the season and now he is useless. For me it depends on your expectations. Temper them, give him time to develop. Less game time and more coming on against tired legs should hopefully see him improve.
 

Goku23

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
185
Surely James will rotate with Rash on the left, Mason with Sancho on the right? Ultimately, I see us getting a better backup for Rashford on the left, possibly next summer.
Thats true didnt think if him rotating with Rashford I think thats the least of oir worries though we have Greenwood who can be striker or winger if need be priority is CB and DM for me after Sancho is done
 

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,429
Location
UK
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
If you mean Greenwood eventually as our main striker then I agree.
 

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,429
Location
UK
I don't think it's necessary to replace James; if Rashford is injured, Greenwood can come in and Sancho replaces Rashford on the left + Martial has shown he can play that position as well.

While it would be nice to have a squad of top top players, I think James is adequate as our 5th choice attacker.
I think it's clear Martial doesn't like playing on the left and indeed, is more effective through the centre. Adequate perhaps if we want to just finish top 4, but relying on Greenwood to play 2 position isn't fair and having James as backup isn't good enough to challenge for titles when Rashford is knackered/injured.
 

Park's Petrified Pooch

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Messages
65
Agreed.

Regarding James, agree abt writing him off. In the first few games people were saying signing of the season and now he is useless. For me it depends on your expectations. Temper them, give him time to develop. Less game time and more coming on against tired legs should hopefully see him improve.
My worry with James is how one dimensional he looks. But it’s difficult to tell whether that’s a case of he lacks a well rounded skill set, or when he’s low on confidence he goes to the thing he trusts the most, which appears to be his pace.
I also think our lack of options saw him get too much game time, and once that initial good form deserted him he was playing on zero confidence and just spiralled a little. He looks bereft of any belief at the moment.
As a squad option with an impact role behind Rashford or Sancho I think he has a future here. Sancho is a must for me. It’s rare a talent like this in the position we are weakest is available.
 

Dazzmondo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
3,213
Surely James will rotate with Rash on the left, Mason with Sancho on the right? Ultimately, I see us getting a better backup for Rashford on the left, possibly next summer.
Why would he rotate with just one? I doubt he'll play very often since we will have 4 excelent players for 3 positions in Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Sancho. The other players will probably only be brought in when absolutely necessary or for cup games. We could play all of these in certain situations:

Rashford Martial Sancho

Rashford Greenwood Sancho

Rashford Martial Greenwood

Sancho Martial Greenwood

Sancho Rashford Greenwood

Martial Greenwood Sancho
Considering we have that many possibilities with just 4 players I don't see much need for extra players in these positions at this time. I mean if it was absolutely necessary we could probably even try Sancho at striker although I don't really see any situation where that would be necessary. We have James, Ighalo and Pereira as players who will in all likelihood hardly ever see many minutes in the league this season.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
556
Location
Septic
James as a bench option is pretty good in fairness. Hes a bloody nuisance for a defender. He needs to improve in final 3rd but he gave TAA and Robinson plenty of headaches so he has my support.
 

The Irish Connection

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
814
That seems very premature.

Over the season he shown some glimpses of his attributes. It is his first season anywhere near this level, at a young age and in the same year his Dad passed away too. Just for context it took me 18 months before I realised how affected I'd been by my own fathers death.

I think there is enough reason to think James could prove himself to be a very useful player here. A seasoned pro in Lingard completely went off the boil in part due to his mums depression. We can't just write off a young player like James.

Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, James & Ighalo should be a great bunch of players to have available next season.
Definitely, it’s been a big year for him to handle. Hopefully he does well in the cup games.
 

KennyBurner

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
2,634
Location
ATL
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
Rashford as CF???? Maybe martial is injured.
 

SteveW

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
7,093
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
Bizarre.
 

groovyalbert

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
3,632
Location
London
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
Bit unfair on Martial - he was far and away our most consistent attacking player after lockdown.
 

Clique

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
5,246
Location
Mermania Rulez!!!...Merms come back!!!
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
If you mean Greenwood eventually as our main striker then I agree.
Statistically Martial being inconsistent is a myth

Let's compare him internally - with Rashford - given that the supporter population see them as rivals (unfairly if I may so add). But be that as it may,

For this season, in the premier league -

Both Martial and Rashford have played 31 games, scored 17 goals and while Rashford has 7 assists, Martial has 6 assists.

Using whoscored statistics, I tried to see if who between the two of them were inconsistent, if at all.

You'll notice that Martial's rating has a ever so smaller band for a good chunk of his performance, while Rashford has a slightly larger band (0.02) - honestly there's nothing in it.

You'll have to view these stats within the context that we've had performance issues within the team, our midfield wasn't giving our attackers enough to work with for most matches till Bruno was signed.

It is also relevant that both of these players are quite young (24 and 22 respectively) and are getting used to a system. While this analysis unfortunately won't dissuade any of our supporters to stop the myth, it hopefully puts his performance in context. We're a young and learning team, we do have slight inconsistencies - but overall our attackers have done an admirable job this year and if nothing else both Martial and Rashford deserve more time basis what they've shown us this year.

The detailed results are as follows:
ParameterMartialRashford
Average Rating7.367.35
Std deviation of rating0.870.89
# of matches - poor performance (Rating < Mean - 1 SD)5 (16%)5 (16%)
# of matches - great performance (Rating > Mean + 1 SD)5 (16%)6 (19%)

Just for assuring that what we're seeing with these two isn't too far for Best-in-class. I ran the same analysis for Sadio Mane and the results are as follows

Average rating - 7.49
Std. deviation - 0.80 (~0.07 and 0.09 better than Martial and Rashford - meaning Sadio more often than not had a smaller performance range set)
# of matches (outside of boundary - lower end) - 8
# of matches (outside of boundary - higher end) - 6

Taken in absolute terms, Sadio Mane had more poor performance in this year than either of Martial and Rashford. But when he performs, he performs within a very narrow range.

Not sure if this all makes sense to everyone or I just wasted a half an hour of my life - but this myth of inconsistency has to be laid to rest.
 
Last edited:

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
17,334
I see the front 4 ending up being

Rashford

Sancho Bruno Greenwood

Martial is to inconsistent, I feel the above front 4 would work very well together woth 3 of them playing together regularly at international level too
I'll just give you another notification for the effort
 

Adnan

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
19,414
Location
United Kingdom, England
Are you shocked? He's being very diplomatic. All football mad kids have a team growing up but it doesn't have to influence where they end up.

Remember Bergkamp was Utd,Ole was Liverpool I believe. So many of those Ajax kids are RM or Barca and so on
If he had a team growing up it was likely Watford.

And no I'm not shocked..
 

Mercurial

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
583
That seems very premature.

Over the season he shown some glimpses of his attributes. It is his first season anywhere near this level, at a young age and in the same year his Dad passed away too. Just for context it took me 18 months before I realised how affected I'd been by my own fathers death.

I think there is enough reason to think James could prove himself to be a very useful player here. A seasoned pro in Lingard completely went off the boil in part due to his mums depression. We can't just write off a young player like James.

Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, James & Ighalo should be a great bunch of players to have available next season.
With this much talent around him and hopefully Sancho added I think James can make it, but he need patience given his sad personal history and age. He can still also develop a lot.

The psychological impact of his loss is hard to imagine for someone that didn't have that kind of loss at that still mpressionable and sensitive age..

Nice post!
 

MichaelRed

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
653
Statistically Martial being inconsistent is a myth

Let's compare him internally - with Rashford - given that the supporter population see them as rivals (unfairly if I may so add). But be that as it may,

For this season, in the premier league -

Both Martial and Rashford have played 31 games, scored 17 goals and while Rashford has 7 assists, Martial has 6 assists.

Using whoscored statistics, I tried to see if who between the two of them were inconsistent, if at all.

You'll notice that Martial's rating has a ever so smaller band for a good chunk of his performance, while Rashford has a slightly larger band (0.02) - honestly there's nothing in it.

You'll have to view these stats within the context that we've had performance issues within the team, our midfield wasn't giving our attackers enough to work with for most matches till Bruno was signed.

It is also relevant that both of these players are quite young (24 and 22 respectively) and are getting used to a system. While this analysis unfortunately won't dissuade any of our supporters to stop the myth, it hopefully puts his performance in context. We're a young and learning team, we do have slight inconsistencies - but overall our attackers have done an admirable job this year and if nothing else both Martial and Rashford deserve more time basis what they've shown us this year.

The detailed results are as follows:
ParameterMartialRashford
Average Rating7.367.35
Std deviation of rating0.870.89
# of matches - poor performance (Rating < Mean - 1 SD)5 (16%)5 (16%)
# of matches - great performance (Rating > Mean + 1 SD)5 (16%)6 (19%)

Just for assuring that what we're seeing with these two isn't too far for Best-in-class. I ran the same analysis for Sadio Mane and the results are as follows

Average rating - 7.49
Std. deviation - 0.80 (~0.07 and 0.09 better than Martial and Rashford - meaning Sadio more often than not had a smaller performance range set)
# of matches (outside of boundary - lower end) - 8
# of matches (outside of boundary - higher end) - 6

Taken in absolute terms, Sadio Mane had more poor performance in this year than either of Martial and Rashford. But when he performs, he performs within a very narrow range.

Not sure if this all makes sense to everyone or I just wasted a half an hour of my life - but this myth of inconsistency has to be laid to rest.
Hey, I enjoyed it so if that means you didn't waste half an hour of your life then that's good.
 

Reddevildans

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
951
Location
Beyond the Wall
Statistically Martial being inconsistent is a myth

Let's compare him internally - with Rashford - given that the supporter population see them as rivals (unfairly if I may so add). But be that as it may,

For this season, in the premier league -

Both Martial and Rashford have played 31 games, scored 17 goals and while Rashford has 7 assists, Martial has 6 assists.

Using whoscored statistics, I tried to see if who between the two of them were inconsistent, if at all.

You'll notice that Martial's rating has a ever so smaller band for a good chunk of his performance, while Rashford has a slightly larger band (0.02) - honestly there's nothing in it.

You'll have to view these stats within the context that we've had performance issues within the team, our midfield wasn't giving our attackers enough to work with for most matches till Bruno was signed.

It is also relevant that both of these players are quite young (24 and 22 respectively) and are getting used to a system. While this analysis unfortunately won't dissuade any of our supporters to stop the myth, it hopefully puts his performance in context. We're a young and learning team, we do have slight inconsistencies - but overall our attackers have done an admirable job this year and if nothing else both Martial and Rashford deserve more time basis what they've shown us this year.

The detailed results are as follows:
ParameterMartialRashford
Average Rating7.367.35
Std deviation of rating0.870.89
# of matches - poor performance (Rating < Mean - 1 SD)5 (16%)5 (16%)
# of matches - great performance (Rating > Mean + 1 SD)5 (16%)6 (19%)

Just for assuring that what we're seeing with these two isn't too far for Best-in-class. I ran the same analysis for Sadio Mane and the results are as follows

Average rating - 7.49
Std. deviation - 0.80 (~0.07 and 0.09 better than Martial and Rashford - meaning Sadio more often than not had a smaller performance range set)
# of matches (outside of boundary - lower end) - 8
# of matches (outside of boundary - higher end) - 6

Taken in absolute terms, Sadio Mane had more poor performance in this year than either of Martial and Rashford. But when he performs, he performs within a very narrow range.

Not sure if this all makes sense to everyone or I just wasted a half an hour of my life - but this myth of inconsistency has to be laid to rest.
My word Geoff
 

DarkRed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
288
Location
Tel Aviv
That seems very premature.

Over the season he shown some glimpses of his attributes. It is his first season anywhere near this level, at a young age and in the same year his Dad passed away too. Just for context it took me 18 months before I realised how affected I'd been by my own fathers death.

I think there is enough reason to think James could prove himself to be a very useful player here. A seasoned pro in Lingard completely went off the boil in part due to his mums depression. We can't just write off a young player like James.

Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, James & Ighalo should be a great bunch of players to have available next season.
I feel that James was good in games that Pogba was good, maybe it shows that he can't create to much himself like Rashford and Martial but can play to a good standart in a team with functional midfield.
 

Clique

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
5,246
Location
Mermania Rulez!!!...Merms come back!!!
Hey, I enjoyed it so if that means you didn't waste half an hour of your life then that's good.
:D. Thank you.

Quite a bit of stereotyping, largely thanks to the narrative that's come out from the pundits (Gary - looking at you, bud)

I think we've got a fantastic forward line, which with the addition of Sancho has the potential to (hopefully) emulate BBC or Saurez, Messi and Neymar.

Gets a little concerning that our folks are parroting what the pundits are saying without believing their own eyes or looking at publicly available information.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
76,146
Location
india
Yeah every player needs to prove their worth, however I think many have been very harsh. When he was thrown in at the beginning of the season he did well.

Then after playing a lot less football he's come back in at times and tried too hard to impress, there was that game where he kept shooting to get on the scoresheet and you could see how much he's forcing it.

We must remember the initial period and not write him off just yet imo. He was great on the counter and I think he has the makings of a good impact sub.
I'm in the wait and watch camp. Many a mediocre player have a good start and then faded into nothingness. I would say I saw enough from him from that early spell to have a lot of faith in him. I think he's very limited and has a lot of work to do. He'll probably get next season to prove his worth.