Jadon Sancho | James Cooper: The deal is very much still alive

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
15,820
Location
Sydney
They'll gamble if we don't pay-up. But we likely are. I mentioned this in my first post on the topic. Teams will hold if a player is getting priced like he has 1 year left anyway due to the current market. I think this will be done by the end of next week, but we aren't going to get the discount people here are hoping for. It will be a discount compared to Dembele and Joao Felix, but with add-ons, it should still hit 100m Euros, potentially 120m. It will also seem higher because a year ago a Pount traded for about .10c Euro higher. As 100m Pounds is closer to 110m where's last year it was 120. 5 years ago this transfer would only have cost 88.8m to give them the desired 120m, now it costs 108m.
gambling in this spot is what they'd call that a negative free-roll in poker

which is why I think he will almost certainly leave this summer, Dortmund are no mugs in the market

but I think €100m is a pretty good discount anyway (if reports are true they want 120)
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
19,443
gambling in this spot is what they'd call that a negative free-roll in poker

which is why I think he will almost certainly leave this summer, Dortmund are no mugs in the market

but I think €100m is a pretty good discount anyway (if reports are true they want 120)
You cant have a negative freeroll, thats why its free!
Its negative EV
 

RUCK4444

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
3,147
Location
FIFA Headquarters
You do realise that transfers cost £ and are dependent on how much we have in reserves? ask Liverpool.

I don’t want club to mortgage for future success just yet: next season should be about consolidation rather than a full assault at the title.
Yes I agree with this. HOWEVER most fans (in here in particular) I fear will jump all over Ole if we don't mount a full on title challenge.

Tempering that is difficult, therefore I would really like Ed to arm Ole with what he needs to do that.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,931
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
You make it sounds like Dortmund is our feeder club and they would give over their star players easily. Dortmund is Bayern's feeder club, not us. I think Haaland is destined to be Bayern's Lewandowski replacement in the long run.
I was being tongue in cheek. I would rather we didn’t have to spend 50-100 million on players and got them earlier and cheaper but as long as our transfer strategy is reactionary and we don’t mind paying the big money then clubs like Dortmund actually are feeder clubs to us, especially if they have minimum fee release clauses etc.
 

Andycoleno9

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
12,070
Location
Croatia
I would wait next year where his fee will be cut by half.
Sure, it is a risk but we can save 50,60 mil which we can spend on another player.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
15,341
Location
Where the grass is greener.
I would wait next year where his fee will be cut by half.
Sure, it is a risk but we can save 50,60 mil which we can spend on another player.
Why do you care more about a bit of money than you do the further success of the club?

When did football fans turn into finance experts and finance fans ahead of actual football glory.

If the club are willing to spend it, don't worry, we'll be fine.
 

The Boy

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
1,655
Supports
Brighton and Hove Albion
They'll gamble if we don't pay-up. But we likely are. I mentioned this in my first post on the topic. Teams will hold if a player is getting priced like he has 1 year left anyway due to the current market. I think this will be done by the end of next week, but we aren't going to get the discount people here are hoping for. It will be a discount compared to Dembele and Joao Felix, but with add-ons, it should still hit 100m Euros, potentially 120m. It will also seem higher because a year ago a Pount traded for about .10c Euro higher. As 100m Pounds is closer to 110m where's last year it was 120. 5 years ago this transfer would only have cost 88.8m to give them the desired 120m, now it costs 108m.
It’s a good point, but I would imagine that Man Utd, like most bug companies will hold their cash in pounds, dollars and euros to take advantage of and protect themselves from currency fluctuations.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,931
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
I would wait next year where his fee will be cut by half.
Sure, it is a risk but we can save 50,60 mil which we can spend on another player.
thats why they are playing ball with us at a lower price. They are accepting that risk and giving us some leeway. They were sore over Miki and Kagawa and I’m sure we will want some other player off them over the next few years. Bring Sancho back to Manchester this summer, everyone’s happy and get cracking on other positions.
 

Garethw

scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
14,534
Location
England:
We seemingly have a free run at him this summer. If we leave it until next summer, then his transfer fee may very well drop by £50-£60 million, but then half a dozen other clubs will be in for him too.

Sancho is top class and potentially fixes a gaping hole in our first 11 for a decade or more. Just pay the fecking money!
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
7,810
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
You do realise that transfers cost £ and are dependent on how much we have in reserves? ask Liverpool.

I don’t want club to mortgage for future success just yet: next season should be about consolidation rather than a full assault at the title.
Of course I do, I fully believe we have more than enough for Sancho and we're using this as a means to bring the fee down, as Dortmund will get a lot less next summer. I feel we'll pay between his value now and his value next summer to get the transfer done, or at least pay less upfront now but more in add ons such as Sancho winning the Balon D'or.

No one wants the club to have to borrow money for signings, as that would be a very poor transfer strategy and business model, thats unsustainable in the current climate.

I feel we've enough money/cash now to buy at least 2 players, with another 1 at least being achievable through sales, 2 being that we sell every player we want to, especially when you factor in their wages as well. Selling Sanchez I feel is paramount to our other transfer dealings due to his wages.
 

treble_winner

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
130
City are getting Torres for just over 20mil and he is a similar age and highly rated.
This is the climate we are in.
Is Torres as highly rated as Sancho?
I'm getting the vibes of Di Maria and Sanchez in 2014 again. Arsenal got Sanchez for cheaper than we got Di Maria. Then during the whole season, Sanchez proved to be better value for money. Lots of posters questioned why we went for Di Maria instead of Sanchez, while Sanchez looked more like a sure bet for PL (His physicality).
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
17,008
City are getting Torres for just over 20mil and he is a similar age and highly rated.
This is the climate we are in.
Valencia and Spanish clubs are massively in the shite. Dortmund aren't. And Sancho is Baloon door level player. Torres hasn't shown that level yet.
 

UpWithRivers

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,390
Valencia and Spanish clubs are massively in the shite. Dortmund aren't. And Sancho is Baloon door level player. Torres hasn't shown that level yet.
Well if he can make balloon doors theN he’s worth every penny
 

POF

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
3,364
Dortmund must be skint if €60m up front is enough to get them to drop their britches. You’d imagine the remaining €60m probably consists of €10m each summer for the next two seasons, €10m after 50 Premier League appearances, €10m after 20 Premier League goals, €10m for Champions League winners, €10m for Ballon D’Or nomination, €10m/10% sell-on fee etc.

So only €100m guaranteed with other non-guaranteed, aspirational clauses for the other €20m, which anyone here would be gladly pay double if it meant that level of success in Sancho’s time here. Obviously we haven’t a clue about the structure of the deal but the €60m + €60m has been mooted a lot since Harris first broke it so it may have something to it.

Sancho is easily worth a flat €120m in my view but it seems we can take advantage of Dortmund’s precarious financial position with our current offer, and the fact we are the only viable transfer for him this summer. It’s nice to get a win in the transfer market every once in a while instead of being rinsed because we are Manchester United.
Absolutely. So, as long as the deal is exactly as the one you imagined in your own head, it's a great deal!

60m up front is just too good to be true

Would be great obviously as you'd hope it would leave plenty remaining in the warchest for further signings
This is such a strange opinion. Most deals are paid by instalments. If it's €60m up front and €60m of future instalments, they still have to pay the other €60m later!
 

dasty

Full Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,003
City are getting Torres for just over 20mil and he is a similar age and highly rated.
This is the climate we are in.
Torres has 8 goals and 9 assists in the past 2 seasons. Sancho has 32 goals and 33 assists in the same time frame. Sancho is at least a few light years ahead of Torres in terms of current ability, and probably potential too. And that is clearly reflected in the price difference.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
15,820
Location
Sydney
Always assumed so unless game theory has moved on since I started out?
You could be right.
it just means a game you can only tie or lose (Dortmund and Sancho isn't a great example tbf)

but I just meant if they wait a year and the market recovers, they lose the same or more value because he'll then only have one year left (and no chance of signing a new contract)

but if they market stays the same or gets worse, they'll lose out
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
26,675
Torres has 8 goals and 9 assists in the past 2 seasons. Sancho has 32 goals and 33 assists in the same time frame. Sancho is at least a few light years ahead of Torres in terms of current ability, and probably potential too. And that is clearly reflected in the price difference.
Imagine if it was the other way around. We "skimping" and buying cheap on Torres, City going big and buying one of the best young players in world football.

The cafe would be in meltdown for months, yet we've still got people complaining :houllier:
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
4,344
If we are paying 120m for him I personally think it's too much even if its in installments.

However the people who are saying look at Torres value arent being fair. He's not got the same status in the game yet and may never have, he's in last year of his contract and also Valencia are in a world of financial trouble.
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
5,445
Is Torres as highly rated as Sancho?
I'm getting the vibes of Di Maria and Sanchez in 2014 again. Arsenal got Sanchez for cheaper than we got Di Maria. Then during the whole season, Sanchez proved to be better value for money. Lots of posters questioned why we went for Di Maria instead of Sanchez, while Sanchez looked more like a sure bet for PL (His physicality).
Then the question is, how is Torres more of a sure bet? Torres is a bigger gamble than Sancho. For City, that does not matter. Pep is hoping to turn him into a world class player. If they fail, it doesn't mean much because of their financial might, and because their squad is already good enough to compete in the CL and league. Ours isn't.

It makes way more sense to go for Sancho.
 

RedDevilRoshi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
4,916
It’s just a matter of when and not if now. Hopefully we get it wrapped up soon so we can move onto our next target, whoever that may be
 

El Jefe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
1,722
If he arrives we need to do some work with him regarding speed and acceleration. He's going to need a bit more pace playing out wide in the PL.

Ronaldo got faster during his time here so I'm hoping Sancho can get just that bit faster it would make so much of a difference. That was one of the main reasons Memphis struggled here, he just didn't have the pace to get away from his markers.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
3,128
Imagine if it was the other way around. We "skimping" and buying cheap on Torres, City going big and buying one of the best young players in world football.

The cafe would be in meltdown for months, yet we've still got people complaining :houllier:
The Cafe would definitely be in shambles if the likes of Liverpool, City or Chelsea were in for him and we were buying a less proven young winger for cheap instead :lol:
 

Goku23

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
184
It’s just a matter of when and not if now. Hopefully we get it wrapped up soon so we can move onto our next target, whoever that may be
I hope next target is Van De Beek for some wierd reason I can see us oaying over the odds gor Grealish but VDB is a much better option imo. Sancho will hr our most important signing it has to be done next week sometime now surely
 

.mica

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
388
Supports
Dortmund
I know people are most likely gonna hound you here, like the few Leicester fans on here last summer that we won't get Maguire unless we pay 100 million or whatever it was. So I don't wanna talk about at what price Dortmund will sell Sancho.

But I would like to talk about this bolded part. What do you think will be so great even with all these players, including Sancho staying at Dortmund? No matter how good your team may be, ultimately we all know you're gonna come 2nd or below, with Bayern winning. Its almost become a joke now. Surely, even the big wigs at the club realize this. So what good is losing out on 50 million?
So your point is: What is the sense of only getting 50-60 Million next year and having Sancho for one more season given the fact that BVB never ever wins the title even with Sancho? Iam understanding you right? That sort of thinking would undermine every effort (or claim) you got as a footballclub.
Everything can happen, and there is also a thing called Champions League. Do i really have to argue that its always the best to get the best team possible?
The point is: They highly probably want to sell, but only for a demanded price and in a specific timespan. And if not, they switch to plan B, and won't shed a tear cause they have the burden to have a Sancho on board for one more season. A comparable situation for the situation next season might be Pulisic. They got 60 Million for him, he had got only 1 year left, and played a minor role in that season, Sancho is by far better than him and is english. Corona situation could also be a little bit more back to normal, and another clubs could be in for him. So they might not stress themselfs and say "if someone pays the 120 Million now, great, if not, we get 50 or 60 Million or more next year, thats also fine and we will get these 50-60 Million at least for sure". They already proofed that if some offer don't fit their needs they carry on. Lewandowski comes in mind.
They are one of the financially most healthiest club, they aren't desperate for money. They will just stick to their plans. At this state negotiations might to be at a point where United and BVB are discussing the exactly conditions of the transfer, but if the all-over-sum don't is as much as the BVB want (or it really takes too long and cuts into their season planing), they will just wait till next season.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
3,128
I don’t think Hazard has the best mindset either tbh.
Yea Madrid won the league in spite of him being overweight and unfit for most of the season. He showed up in shocking shape for someone coming off a 100m move to arguably the biggest club around :lol:

He scored just once in all comps all season
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
26,675
Is Torres as highly rated as Sancho?
I'm getting the vibes of Di Maria and Sanchez in 2014 again. Arsenal got Sanchez for cheaper than we got Di Maria. Then during the whole season, Sanchez proved to be better value for money. Lots of posters questioned why we went for Di Maria instead of Sanchez, while Sanchez looked more like a sure bet for PL (His physicality).
You aren't spiderman don't worry :lol:

Some people either can't just a talent by themselves or have zero bottle ffs