Yup. It's stupid management.
Jadon Sancho (Out)
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Anyone who watched him play would see his transfer value had plummeted, he did that all by himself
And ETH has just made it far worse for no reason at all. It makes no difference to Sancho what his transfer value is - it's the club that suffers.
No top club will go near him after United, certainly not with the kind of contract he will expect. He’s a risk, and a punt at best.
No reason at all? Have you missed the past two years?
ETH gave him months of time off this time last year pre/post world cup for mental health reasons. ETH did his very best to give him as much time as possible.
Given the care he and the club took over a long period to get him back physically and mentally, do you think ETH has done anything deliberately to cause this?
His initial comments were nothing major and ETH has said similar about multiple players. It was Sancho who caused the situation with the tweet, not removing the tweet for two weeks and even now not apologising. I don't work in sport but if i had said similar things about my employer in a public setting I'm pretty sure my contract would have been terminated.
Sancho has made his own bed. To reintegrate him without any contrition from him and apologies to the manager, club and fans would just be insulting and allowing other players to believe this sort of behaviour is acceptable.
Ultimately we made a bad purchase and we will pay for it. We've made a lot of them in the past 12 years. From recent reports it sounds like our transfer dept has targetted transfers that are easy for them to achieve, not necessarily the best ones for the club.
Hopefully with Jimmy in the club now we will stop making silly transfers for the next shiny thing on stupid money and instead focus on up and coming players who get their pay days once they've proven themselves in a united shirt and not just on signing.
ETH gave him months of time off this time last year pre/post world cup for mental health reasons. ETH did his very best to give him as much time as possible.
Given the care he and the club took over a long period to get him back physically and mentally, do you think ETH has done anything deliberately to cause this?
His initial comments were nothing major and ETH has said similar about multiple players. It was Sancho who caused the situation with the tweet, not removing the tweet for two weeks and even now not apologising. I don't work in sport but if i had said similar things about my employer in a public setting I'm pretty sure my contract would have been terminated.
Sancho has made his own bed. To reintegrate him without any contrition from him and apologies to the manager, club and fans would just be insulting and allowing other players to believe this sort of behaviour is acceptable.
Ultimately we made a bad purchase and we will pay for it. We've made a lot of them in the past 12 years. From recent reports it sounds like our transfer dept has targetted transfers that are easy for them to achieve, not necessarily the best ones for the club.
Hopefully with Jimmy in the club now we will stop making silly transfers for the next shiny thing on stupid money and instead focus on up and coming players who get their pay days once they've proven themselves in a united shirt and not just on signing.
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We were open to offers this summer - I can’t imagine many teams were interested. Ten Hag also, probably like most managers, can see talent (which Sancho unquestionably has) and if the option is try to potentially unlock a very good player or sell and likely not get a replacement; you take option 1.
My read of the situation is ETH went above and beyond (giving him the sabbatical) and the underlying question has always been about his application toward fitness/training. This is so evident we can literally see it as fans when watching him. He inherited him and also knows the BL well so would have seen a lot of Sancho there and Antony was not exactly flying so I would be a bit weird to sell him in his first summer as coach. Now I suspect he’s just given up on him, in his mind he simply stated a fact - that players are picked on training form - and he’s not a good enough player to appease.
Yes. Hanging on to an unprofessional player because you don’t want to lower his value is stupid management. And it is what you guys have been doing for years and it never once worked out. You tried this with so many players, Pogba the most popular example. All it led to was paying bad players huge wages for subpar performances. But the value in the books was good.
These ideas and this line of thinking is what caused United to deteriorate so quickly. After years and years of acting like a business instead of a football club, one would think that the fans at the club would somehow understand that this is exactly the problem. But to actively demand a continuation of this failed strategy is so mad, it’s actually funny.
Get rid of Sancho no matter what. This is about culture and the soul of your club. You don’t play players because they might gain value. You play them to win. Sancho doesn’t help winning. So get rid. Sometimes it’s that easy.
Who's saying to hang onto him?
325k a week.
What a foolish move this was.
What a foolish move this was.
Well of course there are more than just 3 options he could use if he wanted, for example, being diplomatic - such as saying we have a big squad and need to ensure everyone have their minutes and also enough rest between games blah blah blah, or every tactical decision for the club is to made in private and he is not going to openly share any tactical information cheaply there etc etc
What would you do in order to raise his value, or prevent his value being lowered? As far as I’m concerned, this would only work by playing him, despite his performance and conduct not justifying any playing time. It would also mean to hang on to him, until his value rises. Which your club has now, with absolutely no success at all, tried with multiple players.
BingoYes. Hanging on to an unprofessional player because you don’t want to lower his value is stupid management. And it is what you guys have been doing for years and it never once worked out. You tried this with so many players, Pogba the most popular example. All it led to was paying bad players huge wages for subpar performances. But the value in the books was good.
These ideas and this line of thinking is what caused United to deteriorate so quickly. After years and years of acting like a business instead of a football club, one would think that the fans at the club would somehow understand that this is exactly the problem. But to actively demand a continuation of this failed strategy is so mad, it’s actually funny.
Get rid of Sancho no matter what. This is about culture and the soul of your club. You don’t play players because they might gain value. You play them to win. Sancho doesn’t help winning. So get rid. Sometimes it’s that easy.
Couldn't agree more!
I've been speaking to boards every week and I can assure you they ask questions more pressing that journalists in a press conference.
But, whatever the reason, everything stays in house. If ETH had anything to say about it, he should have been saying it to Sancho in private, which I'm sure he did, and should have just dodged the question.
The way he answered the question with like "training" is a bit out of line, to be honest. If you want to get rid of a player, you solve it behind the scenes and you don't say in public "he's a bad trainer", even if he is. Why be a prick about it and also affect his chances of securing another club in the future? That just shows ill intentions and a lack of managerial traits and I'd go as far as saying, elegance.
When Mourinho was doing shit like this everyone was going berserk, now it's somehow okay, it seems. In my opinion, ETH made a mistake, but that doesn't take any blame from the mess Sancho did, that's irrefutable.
I suppose I can maybe slightly understand the idea that ETH shouldn't have said what he said (though I do think it was fine to say), but Sancho's reaction to it is still 99% of the problem. It's the reaction of a little kid. ETH was doing all he could to sell Mctominay and Maguire all summer and look how they handled it. If Sancho can't handle that tiny bit of criticism and would rather sit at home playing FIFA than fight for a place in the team then it says everything I need to know about him. If there's a fight, he's not up for it, and we don't need anymore players like that in the squad. You could also maybe see Sancho's side a bit more if he was actually playing well but he basically never has. I hate seeing Antony in the team right now but at least he puts in some effort and follows directions.
It's amazing what you can do in MS paint these days.
Show some respect. It was the edit feature in the photos app on my phone.
I agree. It's properly baffling.
Even if you don't mean it, just go in and say sorry and it's job done: You get to play.
There was that whole period where it seemed like every winger and their uncle was injured. At that point, did nothing click for Sancho to make him think: 'If I just lie I will get to play?'
We've all been there, since we were kids. You fall out with someone and you're forced to shake hands and make up. You don't mean it but you do it, just to get what you want. Why is that seemingly too much for Sancho?
Because he’s standing up for his principles. Which I kind of respect. Or would respect, if his principles weren’t this stupid and childish.
If no club comes in with an offer, what should United do? If we terminate his contract, are we still going to pay $325k per week until it expires? If that is the case, I will probably loan him out for a small fee and partial payment of his salary or send him far away from home like Indonesia or Cambodia or Vietnam. He will come asking for his contract to be terminated.
Public attention should mean that you are even more careful with public criticism. As if the basic principles of human leadership don't apply to professional footballers because they earn lots of money. If anything, the same rules apply to an even greater extent since there is much more pressure on them and because they are much younger than your average employee. I really can't wrap my head around how anyone could applause this handling by Ten Hag. There are only losers thanks to it. It is a shocking lack of leadership from someone in his position that didn't only irreparably harmed his relationship with one of his players but also dealt serious financial damage to the club.
I read this thread and honestly people have the mental resilience of a toddler these days
Ok, I think you're being extremely overly sensitive and I'm sure in your board meetings many harsher things are said about employee performance. But that's your stance.
So let's say he didn't mention anything at the time but the problems with Sancho persist, he keeps getting left out of squads, month after month. The press will keep asking what's going on, what would your answer be at that point? Months down the line.
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This guy is such a stubborn idiot. If he cared about his career he’d of sorted out with the manager straight away. Quicker we get rid the better.
I’m not siding with Sancho what so ever but this may have been a better choice. Why would we care about what the press say and all the rumours when we get that anyway… look at all the rumours about Varane and ETH when Varane was on the bench for a few games. Varane as worked his way back and didn’t cause a fuss. There’s ways around things, we get the press making up shite every single week about us. We need to learn to block it out and concentrate on the football.
Those boards don't ask the questions in public though do they?
He's Dutch, directness and honesty is just par for the course. I've no problem with it as long as he's tried other things first. Sancho was the one who went off crying to his Instagram about it.
You should watch back some of the things Mourinho said if you think the way he conducted himself in the press is in any way comparable to Ten Hag.
I don't even want Ten Hag to stay on as manager but the comments about Sancho were so innocuous. Stonewalling the question only would've raised more questions. Nothing he said suggested he wanted rid of Sancho either.
Sancho's reaction made it into the story it has become, and that will be more of a determining factor than anything Ten Hag did if he has difficulties finding a new club. He was hardly tearing up trees in the 2 years prior. Players have to start taking accountability for their own actions. The fact Sancho has chosen to sit out the last 4 months to protect his ego tells you everything you need to know about the player. Those aren't the actions of someone who wants to be at United and I doubt he'll ever be able to handle the pressures of playing for a top club if that's how he conducts himself.
Aye, but Varane is a good professional and didn't cause a stink by posting something stupid on Twitter. That's the difference.
What has resilience to do with this?
That would still be a lie, obvious one. Sancho wasn't selected, not benched. Everyone could tell something fishy was going on.
Big squad? Everyone was injured ffs
. You'd need to come up with better lie if that the route you pick.The key factor is Sancho would've snitched regardlessly
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When selecting a team there are several factors the manager has to consider. Tactics, return from injury/illness, game-time form (which we see) and training form (which we don't see). Every player outside the selected 11 must be rejected for one of those reasons.
Although very fluent in English we should remember that this is ETH"s second language and we sometimes see unusual choices in words or grammar. The problem here lies with Sancho's childish response to criticism. I fail to understand how he might be continuing to receive his obscene salary if he is not holding up his side of his contract.
Although very fluent in English we should remember that this is ETH"s second language and we sometimes see unusual choices in words or grammar. The problem here lies with Sancho's childish response to criticism. I fail to understand how he might be continuing to receive his obscene salary if he is not holding up his side of his contract.
People saying ten Hag publicly humiliated him etc, he basically said others trained better so they deserved to be in the squad, if that's what's called a public humiliation or such and people view it as such it shows a lack of resilience imo, when someone has a go at me my first thought is to prove them wrong not cry online about being humiliated etc
Seems he’s gotten used to three months off every season now
Isn't it obvious Sancho has an unprofessional attitude? He has delivered nothing on the pitch, and is clearly not delivering in training yet he's our best paid player. That's gonna cause upfrit in the squad, while the manager is trying to change a toxic work culture. When Ten Hag decides to be honest when asked about Sancho, it's because he has already tried several ways to motivate him which hasn't worked, and he thinks publically stating he's not up to standard is the right way. I think it was a last measure from Ten Hag, and Sancho proved himself to be the baby he is.
Obviously it's our own fault for signing Sancho on such a contract when the signs of his unprofessional attitude was there all along.
Obviously it's our own fault for signing Sancho on such a contract when the signs of his unprofessional attitude was there all along.
All he said was players are selected on their training performances... how did you think teams were selected before ETH gave that presser? Sancho had been sent on sabbatical, dropped, given time off...all because he hasn't been good enough. What will likely happen unless he goes Saudi is a weaker league will look at him and pay his actual worth - I reckon about £30-40m - and they'll get a very good player who will do well for them without being elite.
Agree with what you said. Although I felt there was a problem with the squad for the way ETH handled things. I thought that was the reason some of the players aren’t playing to there usually standards, Rashford for example, we all know he’s quite close with Sancho… when he got excluded from the squad we seen rumours come out about players not being happy with the way ETH handled things. Hopefully everyone’s back on board now. It’s players like Sancho we need to get out the squad to create a positive atmosphere within the group.
That got nothing to fo with resilience. Sancho's behavior is rather rebelliousness in the sense of not accepting what you perceive as unfair treatment just because of hierarchy. And it was much more common 'in the good old days' than it is now. You could even argue that what Sancho is doing is actually pretty resilient because he doesn't succumb to the public pressure but stands to his opinion.
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