Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[rotherham_red]

Goals and assists are not AWBs offensive problems, it is his general poor lack of control over the football that is.

A full back could be forgiven for low output. And AWB can actually cross a ball when given the opportunity. It’s more the inability to carry it, quickly control it, cleverly link with it that is a greater issue. He often looks as if he needs to sort his feet out before he can get moving, and you don’t really get that time in the PL.

Evra wasn’t a productive full-back, nor was Ashley Cole. But they were technically adept footballers, which made all the difference in helping their teams advance up the sides.

I disagree to an extent. I don't think his issue is in his lack of control, but rather his thought processing. It seems that his attacking game has steadily been eroded from when he broke through to the first team at Palace (as far as I'm aware he was originally a winger), and it's something that he's now building back up at Utd. It's like he needs to be almost rebuilt from the ground up in terms of attacking play, but not forgetting that his main strengths are now in terms of his defensive game, and that mustn't be lost.

When he's had the opportunities to, he has linked very well with his RW - both at Palace and at Utd. And focusing on Utd particularly, he's showed throughout this season that he's a good link player. I can recount plenty of occasions where he's put people through with a reverse pass or a deft little flick, which have required quick thought processing and good technique/ball control. His crossing has also come on as well.

 

[Synco]

@rotherham_red (and @Rozay)
I see the controversy over AWB has started again.

If United will be fun to watch for a neutral after the break (latest developments seemed to move in the right direction), I'll probably catch up on him.

 

[Trex]

I feel Dan James have made awb look bad in attack ,check awb attacking performance whem greenwood or mata plays at right wing they drift inside giving him more room to operate

 

[criticalanalysis]

I disagree to an extent. I don't think his issue is in his lack of control, but rather his thought processing. It seems that his attacking game has steadily been eroded from when he broke through to the first team at Palace (as far as I'm aware he was originally a winger), and it's something that he's now building back up at Utd. It's like he needs to be almost rebuilt from the ground up in terms of attacking play, but not forgetting that his main strengths are now in terms of his defensive game, and that mustn't be lost.

When he's had the opportunities to, he has linked very well with his RW - both at Palace and at Utd. And focusing on Utd particularly, he's showed throughout this season that he's a good link player. I can recount plenty of occasions where he's put people through with a reverse pass or a deft little flick, which have required quick thought processing and good technique/ball control. His crossing has also come on as well.

Yes I would agree with this too. AWB imo doesn't lack the ability or neccessary technique, it's just the guidance and confidence. That's not to say he has Marcelo/Alves potential but he has more than enough to be be a good link up player, who can support with attacking penetration and width on the right. At the moment, if we are able to get peak Valencia levels and I don't mean that as a slight, then I'd be happy with AWB's progress.

The issue is that whilst Shaw and him are definitely getting the confidence/man management from OGS, I'm worried about the coaching aspect. There's need to be naunce and meticulous tactical thought in our play. To be fair to OGS, his methods and the team has grown massively since January so perhaps there still a lot more to come but we've not really since that in his tenure here.

In a way OGS really is trying to emulate Fergie by putting together a robust team of physically and technically skilled players that can beat 80% of teams on just alone (with good man management) whilst playing attacking footbal. It's just Fergie needed McClaren and Queiroz when it came down to other details.

 

[macheda14]

Yes I would agree with this too. AWB imo doesn't lack the ability or neccessary technique, it's just the guidance and confidence. That's not to say he has Marcelo/Alves potential but he has more than enough to be be a good link up player, who can support with attacking penetration and width on the right. At the moment, if we are able to get peak Valencia levels and I don't mean that as a slight, then I'd be happy with AWB's progress.

The issue is that whilst Shaw and him are definitely getting the confidence/man management from OGS, I'm worried about the coaching aspect. There's need to be naunce and meticulous tactical thought in our play. To be fair to OGS, his methods and the team has grown massively since January so perhaps there still a lot more to come but we've not really since that in his tenure here.

In a way OGS really is trying to emulate Fergie by putting together a robust team of physically and technically skilled players that can beat 80% of teams on just alone (with good man management) whilst playing attacking footbal. It's just Fergie needed McClaren and Queiroz when it came down to other details.

From the article written by Laurie Whitwell on Carrick and McKenna, it looks like those two are the ones responsible for the coaching. It’s an interesting one, we don’t just have a young team we also have a young coaching staff. Everyone is learning together.

One thing that sticks out to me in that article is that McKenna’s “under-18s side played some of the best football seen by those who study youth football, with dynamic full-backs and a rotating midfield three, and he could be fierce in striving for excellence.” That gives me confidence in him coaching AWB to improve as it’s something McKenna puts a lot of emphasis on.

 

[criticalanalysis]

From the article written by Laurie Whitwell on Carrick and McKenna, it looks like those two are the ones responsible for the coaching. It’s an interesting one, we don’t just have a young team we also have a young coaching staff. Everyone is learning together.

One thing that sticks out to me in that article is that McKenna’s “under-18s side played some of the best football seen by those who study youth football, with dynamic full-backs and a rotating midfield three, and he could be fierce in striving for excellence.” That gives me confidence in him coaching AWB to improve as it’s something McKenna puts a lot of emphasis on.

Yes but we've also heard about how OGS' Moldes teams played possession orientated attacking football too..

Perhaps I'm asking too much and we need to accept that in the space of just over a year, he has transformed our dead duck squad into what I believe is undoubtedly one of, if not the most 'complete' in the league.

At the moment, I feel the player and team improvements have been about straight forward tactics, very good man management and fundamental (basic) 1-2-1 directions. Next i want OGS to work on things like getting the team to recognise switches of plays, how to create overload of players (in space and off the ball) to open up passing angles etc etc.

Everyone in the team and players like AWB could benefit massively from this. For example, once AWB is in space and the ball goes out to him, he's left there alone. An intelligent player with ability would attack the space and/or put a cross in before the defence is set. However, AWB is not that confident to do that because he knows if he loses the ball, the oppositon can attack down his channel. That lack of an automatic first pass option and doubt is the difference between solid plays and just instinctive hope.

 

[macheda14]

Yes but we've also heard about how OGS' Moldes teams played possession orientated attacking football too..

Perhaps I'm asking too much and we need to accept that in the space of just over a year, he has transformed our dead duck squad into what I believe is undoubtedly one of, if not the most 'complete' in the league.

At the moment, I feel the player and team improvements have been about straight forward tactics, very good man management and fundamental (basic) 1-2-1 directions. Next i want OGS to work on things like getting the team to recognise switches of plays, how to create overload of players (in space and off the ball) to open up passing angles etc etc.

Everyone in the team and players like AWB could benefit massively from this. For example, once AWB is in space and the ball goes out to him, he's left there alone. An intelligent player with ability would attack the space and/or put a cross in before the defence is set. However, AWB is not that confident to do that because he knows if he loses the ball, the oppositon can attack down his channel. That lack of an automatic first pass option and doubt is the difference between solid plays and just instinctive hope.

I think you missed my point completely. OGS isn’t the one we should be looking at, it’s McKenna and Carrick who take over the coaching.

 

[tenpoless]

I think AWB's offensive issues are overblown. While he doesn't get (m)any goals+assists, he is very adept at link play and passing in the final third, which doesn't perhaps get shown in the stats columns that matter (G+A) and are dependent upon the players receiving the pass to lead to chance creation, but I do think that aspect of his game will be coming out a lot more if he had someone like Sancho to play and bounce off.

Indeed. If you have a very good winger, the fullback doesn't have to be good at beating his man. He just needs to be quick and intelligent enough to run into empty spaces. I think AWB is quite good at these. If We sign Sancho, We will automatically see improvements from AWB as well. The winger + fullback duo is about how the players work together. Which is why Valencia + Juan Mata was so shit.

Another thing to note is, when you have a very attacking fullback it usually comes with a cost of him being exposed much more frequently. So the fact that AWB is solid defensively is not a bad thing, it can't be a bad thing. Let Dalot stay for one more season and sign Sancho. I would go with that. Sancho is a must. Right wingers are rare these days, when you see one as good and as young as Sancho, it is time to break the bank.

 

[Scholsey2004]

I thought this was the Sancho thread, it seems to have somehow devolved into the 'things I dont like about wan bissaka' thread.

 

[Judas]

I thought this was the Sancho thread, it seems to have somehow devolved into the 'things I dont like about wan bissaka' thread.

Bloody annoying, so many boring essays to skip reading. Wouldn't mind so much if they were on the right topic.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Well yeah you would think but the Chelsea lot think otherwise, doesn't matter they have Pulisic and CHO either, the fact he grew up in a one hour vicinity was enough to convince them he'd pick them

Ziyech has not been signed to play on the wing, our manager has said that already ffs. He's being played behind the striker, its quite obvious. Hence the "we need someone in the pocket to unlock defences with their creativity" line. So this "well they have pulisic and CHO" is moot point.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Well Pulisic has come out and said he's off if Chelsea pursue this rumoured Coutinho loan/perm deal and there's a whisper doing the rounds on journalist hosted podcasts that after CHO did his Achilles in, he's not the same in pace or ability. Which would make sense as to why they're looking at Coutinho.

Fact of the matter is, Ambromavich isn't even allowed in the country anymore and he's hardly put any money into the running of the club for a while so where are they going to get daft money to spend on Sancho?

No club is spending daft money this summer. That is out of the question. Roman hasn't needed to pump money in and being out of the UK won't affect his ability to spend big should he ever wish to, (after this summer) i mean the guy is worth £11bn give or take. This "Chelsea couldnt afford X" is nonsense. Like other owners in the EPl, he could pay for Sancho or someone of his price with his loose change...

But yeh, i think this summer is not the summer for huge transfer moves. Can't spend millions upon millions after this pandemic. Woodward was correct in his press interview, and i suspect other CEO's will follow suit soon.

Coutinho to us wont happen, i'd have taken him mind you

 

[sourdough satellite]

Like other owners in the EPl, he could pay for Sancho or someone of his price with his loose change...

He could, but then it would curtail his ability to spend on sorely needed areas of the pitch (ie defence).

 

[criticalanalysis]

I think you missed my point completely. OGS isn’t the one we should be looking at, it’s McKenna and Carrick who take over the coaching.

I got your point. The one I'm making is that we haven't seen any detailed coaching from either of them so right now it's more hope, than it being based on what they (OGS/ McKenna and Carrick) have done in the past.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

United will spend less than £50m this summer.

 

[croadyman]

United will spend less than £50m this summer.

Well if that did prove to be the case then can forget about getting Grealish because he would be around the £50-£60m mark

 

[Moiraine]

United will spend less than £50m this summer.

Who said that ?

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Who said that ?

Paranoid posters.

 

[crossy1686]

Heard some journalists saying that the transfer rumours have been 'agent led' up until Woodward came out and made that statement. Now people are starting to realise that he was right.

 

[Moiraine]

Heard some journalists saying that the transfer rumours have been 'agent led' up until Woodward came out and made that statement. Now people are starting to realise that he was right.

Which statement?

 

[Cee90]

Well if that did prove to be the case then can forget about getting Grealish because he would be around the £50-£60m mark

I personally think Grealish will cost around £40 million, but we’ll see.

 

[crossy1686]

Which statement?

About people can forget it if they expect teams like United to be spending £100m on one player

 

[Redo91]

Really don’t get people thinking Woodward’s statement about no massive transfer fees confirming this won’t happen. What did people expect him to say? That we are loaded and ready to spending huge. Selling clubs would take us to the cleaners.

 

[groovyalbert]

Really don’t get people thinking Woodward’s statement about no massive transfer fees confirming this won’t happen. What did people expect him to say? That we are loaded and ready to spending huge. Selling clubs would take us to the cleaners.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like our Eddy...

 

[RUCK4444]

I really hope we have laid the groundwork on this deal, ready to get it over the line as quickly as possible.

Then sit back and drive a hard bargain with clubs like Villa for the likes of Grealish (if we want him.)

Once the big fish Sancho is over the line other clubs will have seen us spend a chunk of our budget and we will have a little bit more leverage to squeeze good deals for any other players we are after.

Tis’ the art of negotiation and about taking advantage of this current situation, clubs will need to sell players, I’ve said for months now, this is the time for a sleeping giant like United to make some real ground up on the teams who have been finishing above us in recent times.

I just hope we are willing to spend what we should in this opportune period and that Ed doesn’t absolutely balls it up.

 

[cyberman]

Really don’t get people thinking Woodward’s statement about no massive transfer fees confirming this won’t happen. What did people expect him to say? That we are loaded and ready to spending huge. Selling clubs would take us to the cleaners.

He also walked back those comments a few days later

 

[mav_9me]

Who said that ?

His username is there when you quoted him. It was UnrelatedPsuedo who said it.

Point is no one knows. Woodward and Glazers may not spend much cuz of the optics. Or might use that excuse to avoid spending. Or being a buyer's market they might get some good relative bargains. How about that for some quality journalism. Watch some article repeat the same shit I just said. Basically no one knows. Wait and watch.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Heard some journalists saying that the transfer rumours have been 'agent led' up until Woodward came out and made that statement. Now people are starting to realise that he was right.

Don't believe that for a second. WAY too much smoke on this one, there is clear interest.

 

[RkkMan]

Really don’t get people thinking Woodward’s statement about no massive transfer fees confirming this won’t happen. What did people expect him to say? That we are loaded and ready to spending huge. Selling clubs would take us to the cleaners.

Afterwards Woodward himself said Utd will still remain active in the market but for some reason negative ABUs don`t want to talk about it BTW

 

[yo@Kirk]

With U.S. interest rates at 0%, maybe some refinancing of Man United's debt by the Glazers could produce some significant interest savings that could be used in a ruthless manner to add some emerging stars to the first team roster at bargain prices.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

We have the worst economic downturn since the great depression. I doubt we will see any big money transfer at all. The impact will be a lot more apparent once the government subsidy ends.

 

[pascell]

We have the worst economic downturn since the great depression. I doubt we will see any big money transfer at all. The impact will be a lot more apparent once the government subsidy ends.

I'm sorry but maybe I'm missing your point, what's a country's economy and government subsidy got to do with Jadon Sancho?

 

[Drainy]

I'm sorry but maybe I'm missing your point, what's a country's economy and government subsidy got to do with Jadon Sancho?

Finances for everyone are about to plummet.

Every company is about to go into cash conservation mode and so commercial activity will be affected. Games are not being played so no gate receipts and TV may also be affected.

It's a risky time to be committing cash to anything

 

[Drifter]

Don't believe that for a second. WAY too much smoke on this one, there is clear interest.

What is this smoke.

 

[tenpoless]

When in doubt, just remember that We almost signed Kroos and Bale but ended up getting Fellaini.

 

[Bilbo]

When in doubt, just remember that We almost signed Kroos and Bale but ended up getting Fellaini.

What relevance is that to any of this?

 

[reddevil80]

With U.S. interest rates at 0%, maybe some refinancing of Man United's debt by the Glazers could produce some significant interest savings that could be used in a ruthless manner to add some emerging stars to the first team roster at bargain prices.

I would say that clubs would then put the highest possible prices on their players IF we try to be ruthless. There will be a spending cap I assume as that must bring in fair play rules to prevent bigger clubs exploiting the "smaller" clubs, making our financial position, possibly great but spending must be limited.

 

[Adam-Utd]

What is this smoke.

The numberous reports, their CEO saying he wasn’t for sale last summer but might this etc.. it’s quite clear it’s real.

 

[devilish]

The good news is that Sancho will move this season. He's got 2 years left in his contract and he's refusing to sign a new contract. The bad news is that I can't see United going crazy on the transfer market. Now we might be able to edge it out if we sell Lingard, Dalot and co. However that's not a given especially if Sancho ends up being courted by EPL winners Liverpool or someone who'll be playing in the CL.

I can see the following scenario happening

Pogba leaves, Sancho, Graelish and a 30m striker is signed
Pogba stays, we might sign Sancho or Grealish, Ighalo is kept for another year

 

[TheReligion]

The good news is that Sancho will move this season. He's got 2 years left in his contract and he's refusing to sign a new contract. The bad news is that I can't see United going crazy on the transfer market. Now we might be able to edge it out if we sell Lingard, Dalot and co. However that's not a given especially if Sancho ends up being courted by EPL winners Liverpool or someone who'll be playing in the CL.

I think United will be one of a very limited number of clubs worldwide who will be able to afford Sancho and his wages, even more so post Coronavirus. Woodward has eluded to this himself given our commercial powerhouse status.

In the case of Liverpool as said previously then don't seem to be in the running for him and they'd have to look at moving on one of their front three which doesn't look likely. Sancho won't be coming to England to rotate or sit on the bench.