Ryan Fraser from there would be a good signing too. 14 assists in the league this season.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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Ogden says United have been made aware that a £80-90m offer would “prompt” Dortmund to sell?It’s sad how his reliability has taken such a nosedive over the past few years.
I think they would sell. The issue is he wont come to play Europa League and also whilst we look a mess
It’s sad how his reliability has taken such a nosedive over the past few years.
No chance at all they’re selling for 90
Not for that price man. Dembele went for £130m. I think it's fair to say Sancho done better for them than dembele so there is no way he would be cheaper. Sancho would 100% cost around £120-150m.
It’s sad how his reliability has taken such a nosedive over the past few years.
I see this as posturing... the classic “Sources say” which means either the leak is from Dortmund (likely) or Utd (possible) that we balked at price. Either Dortmund wants to rile up the Utd fans or we want to put public pressure on Dortmund to sell.
So... let me get this straight... if you were working for a company in a VP position, another company came along and offered you double or triple the wages, you wouldn’t move to the new company because they were only no. 300 in the Fortune 500, whereas the company you were working for was at no. 150?
Wages drive football, just like any other business. Ask Herrera, DeGea, Sanchez, and every player in the world. All things being equal, yes, winning and competing in CL and WC are icing on the cake, but wages are incredibly important.
This doesn’t mean he is going to move to Utd this summer, but I don’t buy the CL vs Europa bullshit cited by the media/sources.
By the way, Sancho is making £52k per week. He’ll at least double that at United. Fred’s at £120k per week FFS!
The unique characteristic of a football career is you don't have many years at the top. So the kind of competition they can play in while their "30 years old alarm" counts down holds big importance too.
Nevertheless, if we manage to sign De Ligt by blowing Barca out of the water, I can see Sancho being convinced that we are really serious about this new "young, elite crop of players" project and would be more eager to join. After all, great players attract each other right? Show him Pogba's highlight and convince him he just needs to run into space and Pogba would feed him through-balls on that wing all day. Kick the "player" in him up that way, together with a lucrative financial package. That's what I'd do.
Its not just UCL vs Europa, Sancho wants to win trophies (almost won a league this year) and United look a mess. His next move is important, seems like he wanted to come to United but is unsure about the setup at United at present and he is wise to wait the season to see how it goes.
So its not a 300 vs 150 in Fortune 500. Its a company growing and going places vs one who looks a bit of a mess, its losing its share value and its best VPs etc are openly talking about leaving
Its also vs other clubs/companies he could go next year also
Maybe. I do think that as fans, we underestimate the compensation as a factor in a move. These are people too, and money is always important.
We ARE a mess right now, but we are actually either no. 1 or no. 2 in revenue, so... It’s not like we are Blackberry at the advent of the iPhone.
So he'll wait a year to see the lay of the land, if we are not moving in the right direction, he'll likely end up at a Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc if his development continues and still earn loads of money
He might, but again he might not. There are no certain things when it comes to 19 years old player, no matter how certain it may look. He wouldn't be the first that people are wrong about. Regardless, if he was at all available which I really don't think he ever was to begin with, you'd still always have other clubs to compete with. I think it's the best move for him to stay put, and it's going to help confirm whether he's a 100m+ type of player or not.
I think this is a scout / DoF call. Obviously, if you are 95% sure he will become a superstar, you pull the trigger now and save 40-50m.
I am personally at the 90% sure range because I’ve watched a lot of Dortmund. He does things that don’t make the YouTube highlights that point to being a superstar. He’s more polished than Dembele was when he played for Dortmund. Doesn’t have that world class sprinter speed that Dembele does, but he is very fast and quick and better on the ball in tight spaces.
Yeah, no. We don´t want something fair or reasonable. We can get that in 2020 or 2021 even in the case that Sancho stagnates and just stays on his current level instead of further improving. For our offiicials to consider taking a hard hit for our chances for a title challenge next season (that has been given out as goal next season by our CEO which is the most aggressive he has ever been) it would need some unreasonable sum, a good deal above the normal market value to compensate for losing a vital player of the team. Just like Barcelona overpayed by quite a bit for Dembele, who literally forced his way out of the club (there are no indicators that Sancho would go down the same path), United would have to overpay for Sancho.
Our transfer management is not run by idiots, we have in fact one of the most experienced and competent managers in the business running the damn thing. Selling Sancho right now would very likely lose us peak strength as he is already our 2nd most important and best attacking player and getting a player with a similar skill set and quality would be a huge task as pretty much all players on that level either play at bigger clubs already or are currently hunted by them. The best bet would be signing a talent with similar potential to become as good as Sancho already is and that is a risk I don´t see us taking unless the monetary compensation would be substantial.
But I'm not sure it's a matter of pulling the trigger. United is not alone in wanting the next superstar, and they are not alone with having the finances to give an attractive offer. I just think it's a lot of transfer talk nonsense and he's not available at all. If Dortmund were to be pushed for a sale, they would do it for 100m+ and I don't think many clubs would be willing to pay that right now, including United which I think would be sensible. There is no scenario, IMO, where United gets first refusal on him so it's going to be an intense competition for his signature whenever he does become available, most likely next summer, especially if he confirms his ability which, like you, I think he's more than likely to do.
I just wouldn't look at it as you just lost a chance to get him for 80m, I really doubt it was ever an option to begin with and he's in a better situation right now for his development than to come in before he's even 20, with a massive fee, the english press all over him, waiting to become United's savior. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Is there a RW that you would prefer over Sancho?
If it were to happen this summer, it would be an unreasonable fee.
I agree, your scouting of young talent might be the best in the world, and has been for quite some time. The transfers of young talent has been exceptional and under Klopp and Tuchel, that young talent was allowed to play significant minutes. I do not get that feeling under Favre, who of course plays Sancho, but seems to favor steady, consistent options like Delaney over more dynamic but inconsistent players like Dahoud.
If they really want to challenge Bayern for the title, they need to invest in defense instead of buying more wingers. The reason they lost the title this season was poor CB play and goalkeeping errors in the last 12 matches of the season. They were playing Weigl at CB ffs. Brandt at €25m and Hazard at 25m were decent deals but don’t exactly announce “We’re coming for you Bayern”. Brandt has lost some of his star power. Good player, but is he really that much of an upgrade over Gotze?
In addition, I’m not convinced that any club can win the Bundesliga with Paco Alcacer as their first choice striker. If Reus plays there and gets 40 appearances, maybe, but Alcacer would need to be replaced by a top striker to take down Bayern next season.
I just find Dortmund fascinating and it seems to their transfer moves so far do not seem to reflect their public statements....
They have 4 decent options at CB and they might have fixed their issue at LB with the signing of Schultz. Weigl only ended up as a CB because of an absurd injury crisis.
There is no certain thing with any player. You only have to look at our transfer history to see that. I'm certainly convinced by him, and he appears to be nailed on to be a generational talent. If there's any possibility he can be signed this window then we must go all in.
If he’s the Sancho’s backup, I would rather see Mason Greenwood on the RW and hoping he will make similar impact as Mbappe at Monaco as a teen attacker than spending on a player like Fraser. It will cost lot of money for Bournemouth to sell, not worthy.
Add 10m more
It’s sad how his reliability has taken such a nosedive over the past few years.
If it turns out we are turning down a English, generational talent in a posistion we desperately need to fill because of cash then we really are just a top 6 team now. We have the largest revenues in the prem and spent next to nothing last summer.
We are 100% not getting Sancho - It would be better concentrating on achievable signings.
Clearly that's not the case.
It's obviously not a case of us rejecting him. We just have to park it for one season, make sure that we have some tangible progress this coming season and make the CL.
If we can get to the CL, THAT is when you will see us really making statement signings.
This season is about putting the building blocks and foundations in place for us to progress further and get to back to the pinnacle. Our issues post-SAF have been that Moyes removed those off-field building blocks when he sacked the coaching staff and alienated a lot of the world class players we had at our disposal, with the rest either leaving in a huff with successors (LvG) or declined naturally (Rooney) and what we're now left with is a Frankenstein's monster of a squad, made up of a hodge podge of cast-offs and an incoherent smattering of world class here and there. In the past Ed has tried to buy world class players but without having a foundation in place, which has led to the mess we're currently in.
If we can get to the CL, THAT is when you will see us really making statement signings.
This season is about putting the building blocks and foundations in place for us to progress further and get to back to the pinnacle. Our issues post-SAF have been that Moyes removed those off-field building blocks when he sacked the coaching staff and alienated a lot of the world class players we had at our disposal, with the rest either leaving in a huff with successors (LvG) or declined naturally (Rooney) and what we're now left with is a Frankenstein's monster of a squad, made up of a hodge podge of cast-offs and an incoherent smattering of world class here and there. In the past Ed has tried to buy world class players but without having a foundation in place, which has led to the mess we're currently in.
I meant refusing to pay an extra 30 or 40 mill to get it over the line. It looks as though the decision has been his which is fair enough and nothing we can do. If it is a case of us refusing to over pay a bit to get it done though then it will come back to haunt us. This kid is the real deal and worth over paying a bit for now rather than possibly lose out next year when others join the race.
A good summer of signings might change his mind. So it might be a case of waiting until Ed gets a few deals over the line.
So he's turning us down?
I don't think so. He's shown maturity and drive to go over to Germany rather than sit on the bench at City and managed to impress there. He's young, attacking, with bags of potential. He's exactly the profile of player we need.
It is really interesting to follow this conversation. So much debate is going on about whether Sancho wants to join United and how he can be convinced but rarely do people wonder if Dortmund are simply not willing to sell. Which would be entirely the logical thing for them to do. So I think Sancho isn't turning you down, Dortmund is. That's why it will probably not matter either if United impress him in any way with their transfer dealings.
In Germany and among Dortmund fans a summer move by Sancho isn't really discussed at all since there are basically no sources suggesting one would happen. The only place I am reading about it being any kind of real possibility is on the caf.
No, Dortmund are refusing to sell as far as we know.
It seems it would take a stupid bid of something like £150m which just wouldn't be worthwhile right now. We'd be better off waiting a year or 2 and let his contract run down.
At which point Madrid, Barca, City etc might also be on board. We need to go all out now. Spend last seasons transfer kitty. Where has that all gone?
Avram wanted a new yacht. (probably)
Fraser plays left wing.
Still paying for the last few years in transfers I imagine.
I'm sure if Sancho becomes available and for an achievable price we will go for it, but we just don't have enough free cash to get 4/5 players after that.
We can't get Wan Bissaka, De Ligt, Sancho, Fernandes etc all in 1 summer WITHOUT the CL money also. That's hit us for the tune of £60m by itself.
I think we'd be better off with getting AWB, De Ligt, James +1 midfielder and seeing how it goes from there.
Maybe a forward will be needed if we sell Lukaku.
Alcacer hasn't been, and likely will not be Dortmund's 1st choice striker. He starts on the bench more often than not. Reus will play up front, or Favre will play with a 'false 9' type forward.
I like Götze and was happy to see him re-discover some form this year, but Brandt is a younger, more mobile, more skillful player, who really hasn't lost any of his star power. He's only just getting started.
I agree that goalkeeping needs a bit of a look, Bürki is much improved, but still eratic. The problem in defence last year was more to do with injuries, the coach wasn't putting Weigl in there originally for the fun of it, it was a desperation move. Akanji and Diallo are a very good pair. Getting a better 3rd choice would be advisable though. But the summer window has only just started, I don't think Dortmund are done. Hazard, Brandt and Schulz are big upgrades for the squad and should help Dortmund push on, so we must be seeing different things in these players! They are more than 'decent' deals.
When you watch Gotze every week, you realize why he was once the darling of German football. Skill, class on the ball, movement is at times sublime. Sadly, it seems his athleticism is down a notch or two so he’s not the player he once was. I haven’t watched much of Brandt, so maybe you are right.
I really hope to see Dortmund win the title next season. I suppose it will depend on what Bayern does this summer and where and who they add to their squad. I do agree that Akanji and Diallo are solid, but I think RB could be a problem and if there are injuries, the other CBs are not particularly convincing. Burki more or less cost them the title, I’ve watched him for several seasons and he is quite error prone IMHO.
They need a top striker if they want to catch Bayern. Reus is fantastic, but his injury history is worrying. At this stage in his career, is he good for 45 appearances? They are a better team when Reus has the freedom of a 10 rather than operate as a 9. Hopefully they will overcome these question marks. I still hope we get Sancho this summer (I know you don’t want to hear that), but if we don’t, I’d love to see you topple Bayern.
He's the original Karius. I can't stand to see him between BVB's posts anymore.
That's the life of a goalie though isn't it? I'm not a fan of Bürki, but like with most goalies of teams you don't follow, often, you only know of the mistakes, unless he's one of the very few truly class goalies in the world. It's easy to say he cost a title, but you can go through a whole season and pick out other moments be it from forwards missing sitters, defensive mistakes, but it's always easy to blame the goalie. He's still actually a good goalie. But it'd be nice to get better.
I don't think you know Ajanki well if all you say about him and Diallo is that they are solid. Akanji is quality, better than any defender your team has by the way. Diallo is also very good. But yes, be nice to get better than Toprak, and more experience than Zagadou as backup. Again, the top striker thing, Dortmund don't have a problem scoring goals, why the need for another forward. It's like this cliched response that people sometimes have, that a team can't be great, without a 'top striker'. I like having a team with 5 or 6 quality attackers.
But anyway, enough Dortmind here, unless it's about Sancho. I don't really agree with a lot of your take about the team lets put it that way but that's cool.
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