Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[macheda14]

Name a journo with a 100% record. Example of a story he got right and first: Coman is coming to United on loan. Instantly denied by Falk and he was spot on - not happening.

It’s more that most German fans on r/soccer say he’s completely full of shit and are really confused why English fans out faith in him.

But also using a denial isn’t really proof of someone reliability. Supposedly he’s pretty good with Bayern and beyond that not so much.

 

[macheda14]

I have thought this myself. We have to accept the fact that Glazers are not fans of Utd, they are just businessmen looking to make profit like all businessman.

When we finish outside of the top 4, they react by investing heavily as they understand from a business perspective they need to make that investment to capture the financial riches of champs league money.

Now when we finish 3rd, essentially it’s only around £20m difference in revenue from finishing 1st.

So from a business perspective they are weighing up spending 120m euro in order to try and win £20m more. It would take a lot more convincing by Ed and Ole to show them that this 120m would pay off every year for the next 10 years.

I imagine that’s the challenge Ed currently has in presenting that case. We have to always remember that Glazers aren’t fans. Everything will be viewed from a business sense.

Surely if we believe the picture you paint to be true, they can’t be stupid enough to not see the pattern of spending lots, getting CL, not spending as much, missing out on the CL only to have to spend again. They’re businessmen and so surely they can see past patterns based on investment.

 

[Chief123]

Surely if we believe the picture you paint to be true, they can’t be stupid enough to not see the pattern of spending lots, getting CL, not spending as much, missing out on the CL only to have to spend again. They’re businessmen and so surely they can see past patterns based on investment.

For us who understand him as a footballer and what he brings it’s probably a lot easier to sell the idea.

I’d imagine it’s harder to convince them of it being a 10 year return.

For all we know, Glazers might have an exit plan well before that.

 

[Lemansky]

Falk is accurate on one matter and that’s making Bayern and German clubs opinion on matters public. He is a spokesperson for especially Bayern and don’t have his own neutral sources viewing from the outside. Romano looks more clued up with agents and not only clubs from one country.

 

[macheda14]

For us who understand him as a footballer and what he brings it’s probably a lot easier to sell the idea.

I’d imagine it’s harder to convince them of it being a 10 year return.

For all we know, Glazers might have an exit plan well before that.

Again I don’t think it would be that hard to convince them of a return in a marketing sense. I’m sure there are numbers deep in United’s headquarters that chart the increased marketing value of the team when players such as Pogba have joined. They should also look at the increase in sponsorship deals and revenue from Liverpool’s recent success. I’d just find it weird if you have every single person at the company you work for pushing for an acquisition - people with far more knowledge than you, how you could not see that it’s the correct decision. There are few players that would get such unanimous agreement from every side of the club.

We heard that when Woodward was promoted it was always his plan to bring Pogba back. Sancho is the only other player we’ve had such long term eyes on as our number one priority.

 

[Mickeza]

90m in cash reserves (as of the March 2020 Q3 reports, wouldn't have been so bad if we didn't need to strengthen in multiple positions. My guess is that, because Dortmund want much of the 120 million Euros up front, we may not have enough money to strengthen other parts of the squad. I think we went after van de Beek because we felt that we could afford him at this time, but we're still waiting for outgoing transfers before deciding to strengthen the team further.

Cash reserves were used to cover the 20m rebate I think which we’ve now covered in the loan hence why our net debt went up so much. So we may have 110m available now in theory. Plus that 140m COVID loss loan is very much worst case scenario. You’re right though, it’s very difficult to cover that 100m up front payment and bring in others without selling. It’s logical we’ve decided Sancho isn’t going anywhere except to us this window so that can wait for outgoings whilst our other targets are wanted by other clubs hence why we had to move on VDB first whilst Sancho can wait until we sell the 7/8 players we need to have the necessary cash flow. Plus I’m certain Dortmund will eventually accept instalments once Sancho pushes for a move toward the end of the window. It’s poker basically.

 

[DarkDog]

Thank you! So in summary, it's a stalemate. We pay up or move on. Hard to see how it gets done in that case. Sigh...

Basically you summarised it even better than I did mate
We still could, it's more than obvious that Solskjaer wants him, and Sancho really wants to come.
Last summer Mark Ogden reported our budget spot on. This summer there has been no good report on how much our budget really is, (it might be because Glazers said that it will be case by case, haven't said some number even to Edward will see based on the player and price) so there still could come the surprize, but my own opinion is that we don't have the funds for the transfer. BVB have been selling players for a long time now and they might be the best at it. Lewa was the last one on who they didnt get their price, but only because they wouldn't sell him to Bayern on a cheap and so Lewa ran his contract down.

 

[Fortitude]

@Damien is the Pogba transfer thread the biggest one the site has ever had at 1091 pages?

 

[Damien]

@Damien is the Pogba transfer thread the biggest one the site has ever had at 1091 pages?

Yep.

 

[mazhar13]

Cash reserves were used to cover the 20m rebate I think which we’ve now covered in the loan hence why our net debt went up so much. So we may have 110m available now in theory. Plus that 140m COVID loss loan is very much worst case scenario. You’re right though, it’s very difficult to cover that 100m up front payment and bring in others without selling. It’s logical we’ve decided Sancho isn’t going anywhere except to us this window so that can wait for outgoings whilst our other targets are wanted by other clubs hence why we had to move on VDB first whilst Sancho can wait until we sell the 7/8 players we need to have the necessary cash flow. Plus I’m certain Dortmund will eventually accept instalments once Sancho pushes for a move toward the end of the window. It’s poker basically.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if this does go all the way and Dortmund continue to make life difficult for us. Regarding our cash, though, after Q3, we'd have had more expenses that would have reduced our cash reserves, so I wouldn't be surprised if that 110 would have become something like 90-100 in the end. The annual report will make for some very interesting reading.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

Yep.

Do you know the biggest failed?

 

[Suv666]

Football transfers are complex and situations change rapidly. No reporter can predict what'll happen on the negotiating table. Expecting any journalist to have a spotless record with so many moving parts involved is absurd. If a journalist isnt making up shite for clicks and seems to be a bit immune to briefs, he's reliable (The Di Marzio squad) At the end of the day, any journalist reporting on a transfer shouldnt be treated as gospel.

 

[Brophs]

I didnt understand it the first time, been a long day with the kids going back to school.

Edit - sure he is a closet Notts Forest fan, not a villa fan.

Heh. I feel your pain. My daughter has been off crèche for a few days with a cold. First day back today. I won’t lie, being able to do a few jobs without being pelted by Duplo was nice. She’s right in that sweet spot between absolute love for me and wanting to murder me in cold blood!

 

[Chief123]

Again I don’t think it would be that hard to convince them of a return in a marketing sense. I’m sure there are numbers deep in United’s headquarters that chart the increased marketing value of the team when players such as Pogba have joined. They should also look at the increase in sponsorship deals and revenue from Liverpool’s recent success. I’d just find it weird if you have every single person at the company you work for pushing for an acquisition - people with far more knowledge than you, how you could not see that it’s the correct decision. There are few players that would get such unanimous agreement from every side of the club.

We heard that when Woodward was promoted it was always his plan to bring Pogba back. Sancho is the only other player we’ve had such long term eyes on as our number one priority.

Yeah, I totally get it mate. I'm sure Utd will have advisors who present the proposition to the Glazers and give their expertise opinion on it. I'm pretty certain everyone within the club is unanimous in their view that this signing makes sense from a footballing perspective. In fact, Sancho is a player who walks into any team in the world (or threatens to very soon), so it would make footballing sense to any football club.

I'd imagine Glazers would still have to weigh up whether it's worth the risk because despite projections and forecasts of signing a player, it doesn't always pan out how you plan. I'm sure similar forecasts would have been done for Sanchez and Di Maria, yet they turned out to be catastrophic signings from a business point of view.

What I would add is, I am still convinced the Sancho signing will happen. I feel the board and management will have emphasised enough for Glazers to approve their call on the signing.

On a sidenote, I mentioned this in a thread I created recently (which I requested to be deleted as I got mobbed for pretending to be an ITK and the thread became a shit show). I have a colleague (55yr old consultant - not a 14 year old kid on work experience) who does some consultancy work with a senior member of the Utd backroom staff. I can't mention the name. However, he naturally works closely with Ole and Woodward. My colleague often has Utd discussions with me as he is a Utd fan himself. He mentioned to me recently that Woodward often likes to be a "chest-beater" and always has the enthusiasm to throw Utd's financial strength around. He's never frugal when it comes to acquiring players. We can all see that with some of the signings in recent years anyway. He did mention that Ed loves the trophy signings that makes everyone take notice. This was clearly evident in the interview Ed did after we signed Schweinsteiger. So much so, it was actually cringe to watch.

Anyhow, that is why I tend to give Woodward more slack as I'm pretty sure he's not shy in making big money moves. It can be argued his negotiations and dealings havent been great, but can't knock his willingness to splash the cash. If a big signing falls through, the buck would stop with the Glazers.

With regards to Sancho, I have full belief that it will get done despite the situation going quiet for now. This kind of transfer journey is not uncommon under the Glazers. It has always been a dragged out saga. I just can't see how Utd will turn their back on this deal when the groundwork has been done for so long now. It's going to take patience.

 

[Fortitude]

Yep.

Looks like this is going to absolutely obliterate that. Be a bit twisted if that's with us not even getting the player!

 

[peridigm]

Looks like this is going to absolutely obliterate that. Be a bit twisted if that's with us not even getting the player!

Any journo that watches this thread could tweet some bullshit that is slightly positive and it would grow 50 pages overnight.

 

[UncleBob]

We heard that when Woodward was promoted it was always his plan to bring Pogba back.

 

[UncleBob]

I have thought this myself. We have to accept the fact that Glazers are not fans of Utd, they are just businessmen looking to make profit like all businessman.

When we finish outside of the top 4, they react by investing heavily as they understand from a business perspective they need to make that investment to capture the financial riches of champs league money.

Now when we finish 3rd, essentially it’s only around £20m difference in revenue from finishing 1st.

So from a business perspective they are weighing up spending 120m euro in order to try and win £20m more. It would take a lot more convincing by Ed and Ole to show them that this 120m would pay off every year for the next 10 years.

I imagine that’s the challenge Ed currently has in presenting that case. We have to always remember that Glazers aren’t fans. Everything will be viewed from a business sense.

Yeah, it's not like we've spent almost £900mill since Fergie retired.

oh wait, that's exactly what we've done.

 

[macheda14]

I can’t remember where I read it, but there was this really long article about how Woodward made it his mission. Was constantly in touch with Pogba’s camp etc.

 

[Chief123]

Yeah, it's not like we've spent almost £900mill since Fergie retired.

oh wait, that's exactly what we've done.

Not sure how your response is a reply to my post. You’ve just backed up my point. We’ve always spent heavily when finishing outside top 4.

 

[macheda14]

Not sure how your response is a reply to my post. You’ve just backed up my point. We’ve always spent heavily when finishing outside top 4.

That only works if you count us winning the Europa league and therefore getting into the CL as finishing out of the top 4.

 

[UncleBob]

I can’t remember where I read it, but there was this really long article about how Woodward made it his mission. Was constantly in touch with Pogba’s camp etc.

Mourinho tried signing Pogba at Chelsea before he was sacked.

 

[reddevilchennai]

Yeah, it's not like we've spent almost £900mill since Fergie retired.

oh wait, that's exactly what we've done.

Imagine Fergie being handed that sort of money and him being the manager for last 7 years.

Would have definitely won title in atleast 2 to 3 out of the first 4 seasons. Last 3 seasons would have been difficult to match for him with City getting over 100 points, 98 points and Liverpool 97 points. But Fergie being Fergie, he would have won 1 title out of the last 3 seasons too.

 

[BiggusCrickus]

Sancho is in the country right now. We should just get him lockdown and not allow him to leave for Germany. That should lower his price

 

[Plant0x84]

On the official app they just did a flash poll about VDBs shirt number, and 7 was there but 11 wasn’t there. Since AM got his number 9 back I wasn’t aware of us having an 11, unless it is being reserved for someone? Someone who plays 11 for his NT?

** Edit** oh and next Friday is the 11th..... keep the faith for a few days more. SanchON!!

 

[UncleBob]

Not sure how your response is a reply to my post. You’ve just backed up my point. We’ve always spent heavily when finishing outside top 4.

We've spent an obscene amount of money, we've outspent Liverpool by almost £200mill the last 5 seasons. Almost £900mill in transfer fees and a wage bill that's completely mental, through the roof and upwards.. It coincides with replacing managers and supporting them as best as we can.
Van Gaal made top 4, we brought in everything he pointed at in Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Romero and a record fee for Martial. Sacked the following season for being shite, and we let Mourinho spend £150mill to revamp the squad, another £150mill the following season when we had CL secured. Lost faith in Mourinho because he went mental and onwards we go

Nothing whatsoever indicates that we aren't trying to improve further.

If the only thing you read out of that is that we're trying for top 4 then good luck.

 

[macheda14]

Mourinho tried signing Pogba at Chelsea before he was sacked.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...united-the-inside-story-of-a-three-year-chase

There was a better more ‘Athletic’ style written article about it. But this begins “dialogue opened between Ed Woodward and the player's agent Mino Raiola almost as soon as he became the executive vice chairman. Since those first discussions, United have kept close watch on a player they allowed to leave for just 1.5m euros, noting Pogba's rapid progression over the past three seasons”

 

[Chief123]

We've spent an obscene amount of money, we've outspent Liverpool by almost £200mill the last 5 seasons. Almost £900mill in transfer fees and a wage bill that's completely mental, through the roof and upwards.. It coincides with replacing managers and supporting them as best as we can.
Van Gaal made top 4, we brought in everything he pointed at in Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Romero and a record fee for Martial. Sacked the following season for being shite, and we let Mourinho spend £150mill to revamp the squad, another £150mill the following season when we had CL secured. Lost faith in Mourinho because he went mental and onwards we go

Nothing whatsoever indicates that we aren't trying to improve further.

If the only thing you read out of that is that we're trying for top 4 then good luck.

The points I made don’t go against what you’ve said. I didn’t say we’ve not invested heavily. I just don’t understand what you are arguing against what I’ve said.

 

[UncleBob]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...united-the-inside-story-of-a-three-year-chase

There was a better more ‘Athletic’ style written article about it. But this begins “dialogue opened between Ed Woodward and the player's agent Mino Raiola almost as soon as he became the executive vice chairman. Since those first discussions, United have kept close watch on a player they allowed to leave for just 1.5m euros, noting Pogba's rapid progression over the past three seasons”

Sky sources.

We showed feck all interest in going for Pogba until Mourinho arrived

 

[UncleBob]

The points I made don’t go against what you’ve said. I didn’t say we’ve not invested heavily. I just don’t understand what you are arguing against what I’ve said.

You're indicating that we only spend money when we finish outside the top 4 to get back into the top 4 and that further improvement is considered meaningless.

 

[macheda14]

Sky sources.

We showed feck all interest in going for Pogba until Mourinho arrived

We were constantly linked with him the summer prior. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/04/juventus-paul-pogba-not-for-sale
I could find more but I really can’t be arsed doing anymore googling to argue about something not relevant to the Sancho thread. Especially with someone who seems to know the ins and outs of our transfer decisions.

 

[Damien]

Do you know the biggest failed?

Arturo Vidal on 647 pages. This'll easily top that if nothing happens.

 

[croadyman]

Definitely starting to look like we are selling players so we can offer more up front for Jadon

 

[UncleBob]

We were constantly linked with him the summer prior. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/04/juventus-paul-pogba-not-for-sale
I could find more but I really can’t be arsed doing anymore googling to argue about something not relevant to the Sancho thread. Especially with someone who seems to know the ins and outs of our transfer decisions.

Gaitan

 

[Red00012]

@Damien is the Pogba transfer thread the biggest one the site has ever had at 1091 pages?

This will top it easily I reckon if it drags on until October

 

[Rolaholic]

With the likes of Smalling and Romero reportedly on their way out the door this week and with us opting to go for VDB instead of Grealish in midfield, I'm hoping that we'll hear some movement on this over the next week or so with more funds being freed up.

 

[sammsky1]

You don't have to be a Glazer apologist to understand that the club needs to be fiscally responsible during this period of unprecedented uncertainty.

I hate the Glazers and would love nothing more than to see the back of them. But the reality is that they have no interest in selling the club and even if they did, nobody is buying them out in this current climate.

It's also a simple reality that their ownership and the way it came about has our club structured in such a way that we have to make ends meet. Yes, when all is going well we can generate more money than almost any other club, but by that very same yardstick - when something ridiculous like Covid happens, we stand to lose more than anyone else too.

We employ more people than most clubs and have all praised the club for its conduct in standing by staff during the last few months, we have more seats, more online presence, more marketing streams and more pretty much everything than most other clubs and all that costs more money than other clubs spend. We were likely towards the business end of negotiating an enormous deal to take over shirt sponsorship from Chevrolet next year when this virus came along and threw those talks into turmoil.

We can all sit around and moan about how much we wish the Glazers were gone and we had a Sheikh pumping his own money into the club but that isn't an option for us so it's not really any use. Suggesting that the Glazers should just sign all the players anyway, regardless of the cost "because Man Utd make plenty of money anyway" is ridiculous - we operate under a different reality to City or Chelsea and that's just the way it is.

thanks for writing this and of course I agree with you. Unlike others I just don’t waste my energies moaning about it with should or could theories that won’t change a thing.

Glazers own our club, it is theirs, regardless of how they acquired us, and some fans have a problem accepting this.

And the truth is they have invested heavily into new transfer signings since SAF left, their mistake was choosing the wrong managers and allowing them to acquire players that have not had the desired impact, as has been endlessly discussed in many other threads.

Judging from our recently published financial records, it’s clear what we can spend. Agian, should or could won’t change that. Pointless ranting that we should invent a magic money tree, unlike Rishi Sanuk, we can just print money

 

[Rolaholic]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

A bit of a nothing 'update' but I guess it's a positive if there's seemingly movement on our side for the first time in weeks

 

[JohnZSmith27]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

A bit of a nothing 'update' but I guess it's a positive if there's seemingly movement on our side for the first time in weeks

I'll take it. It's on!!

 

[AltiUn]

Sky must really want this to happen, they're basically keeping the story alive by themselves.