Maybe (hopefully) he can stay at forest in that case.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The guy has proven himself as the best young cm in the championship or at least one of the best young cms. That type of talent demands to be given a chance. He should not be loaned out next season and instead should fight for a place in the squad.
Just jump from the championship to the premier league is huge. Even more so when it's to Man United, even more to a struggling Manchester United side with a new manager. It'll do Garner a lot more good to get a full season in the Premier League actually playing. He's not ready to just come in and play regularly at United, which means a bench season won't do him much good at this key point in his development. He needs a premier league loan in a progressive side. Loan out Hannibal/Garbacho/Amad to the championship and get them going too.
I get what you are saying but I think its the fear of a young player failing at united that gives this thought. But Garner is 21 now, has had 2 seasons in the championship whilst excelling in the 2nd season. Similar to mason mount, kane and others he should be given a chance. Also when you think that most likely pogba and matic will be gone, we will only have mct, fred and bruno. We likely are not going to buy 3 more cm's so there is a place for him. On all sides it makes sense.
Regarding Garnacho and Mejbri, it would make sense to keep both because once again we are looking at having no martial, cavani, greenwood, lingard, mata, pogba, pereira, so 7 players who all won't be replaced. So if there is ever a chance for an attacking young player to break through it will be next season. Same goes with Amad and Pellistri.
Then add on top ETH likes to work with younger players, if I was a young player at united I would be very keen to stick around next season.
Its quite simple really. He's not good enough to start for Manchester United yet. Our midfield should hopefully improve with purchases in the summer and he needs to play in order for his development not to stagnate, not sit on the bench.
I guess you have watched him play for 90 mins quite alot to make that assessment?
Should, would, could is not the same as current team is it? What's to say the next manager wont play him?
Progressive passing, taking the initiative in matches and asking for the ball more and ability to play through a press. He seems at the moment to be decent at blocking passing lanes, but we need more than that.
Like I say I haven't watched a lot of him, but not seeing much to get that excited about. He needs game time in the Premier league at another club so we can see what he's made off.
I take it you've seen him a lot. What's his ceiling in your opinion?
Did you even read the comment you initially quoted ? I said I haven't seen a lot of him but from what I have it doesn't look that special, especially given how many attributes in the middle we're missing. I guess it wasn't simple enough.
I'm delighted for him that he's been such a success and become fan favourite at Forest. I still don't think he's good enough for us though.
Lovely to see a loan work out this well, they often don't. Given the departures of Pogba, Matic and Mata you would think there is a place for him in the squad next season even if we do bring in a top midfielder.
Yes, I did read it, maybe you should type things instead of thinking it in your head.
"He looks a little bit average to be starting for Manchester United right now, needs another season on loan in the Premier League."
That is the comment I initially quoted.
He has the attributes we are missing, playmaking from the middle, connecting the defence and attack. Go have a look at which players make most key passes in a game. Go watch his performances against Arsenal and Liverpool.
I haven’t seen a lot of him (only the televised cup games and feedback from a mate who’s a Forest fan)... and without watching a lot of a player (any player), I wouldn’t give a definitive opinion on one (“he’s poor at x, y and z”).
From the little I’ve seen, seems comfortable on the ball, always showing and got several goals/assists. The Championship is a tough league, physical and seems to stand up for himself. He’s 21, hopefully keeps improving.
You've not mentioned Elanga being loaned out, presumably because he's already been dropped in and shown his worth. Yet if he'd have been loaned out and excelled in the championship most would still be saying he wasn't ready and needed more loans.
Same with Rashford and also Greenwood. Garner could easily fall into this category and in truth he's shown more than either of those did to get their chance.
Our squad is going to be thin next season so he'll get chances.
They're really really singing his praise over Here.
forrest fans seem to love him so it makes me wonder how good he really is.
They could try to outright buy him if they make it to the premier league, I don't think we should give in bit I do wonder whats the best next step for his development, do we rush him to the main team or let him spend another year on loan in a premier team.
forrest fans seem to love him so it makes me wonder how good he really is.
They could try to outright buy him if they make it to the premier league, I don't think we should give in bit I do wonder whats the best next step for his development, do we rush him to the main team or let him spend another year on loan in a premier team.
That's true. I do think it's harder for young deeper midfielders like Garner to really break through, and not every player can develop the same way. Garner has hopefully progressed a lot, but it's definitely "safer" to loan him out again in the Premier League. The absolute last thing he needs is to have a Tuanzebe situation, where he impressed, then came here and sat on the bench all year because he wasn't quite good enough to play regularly and just stalls. Who knows how Tuanzebe might have developed if he got another loan to get used to the prem at Villa. He's at a crucial stage of his development, and assuming we sign at least just 1 defensive midfielder, we'll have the new DM, Fred, McTominay and Van de Beek as deeper midfielders next season. Its nothing special, but it is 4 senior players. Fred will likely be a starter next to the new DM, and ETH will likely use VdB properly or at least give him a try, so it's a risk bringing Garner in to sit him. He really has to impress in pre season and show he's capable.
Tuanzebe is nearly as injury prone as Phil Jones, he started that season as our 3rd choice but he couldn't be relied on at all.
Love some of his passing.
I hope Ten Hag can come soon and assess this kid out a bit during pre-season.
It could really save us some money instead of having to target a playmaker like neves or caqueret.
I hope Ten Hag can come soon and assess this kid out a bit during pre-season.
It could really save us some money instead of having to target a playmaker like neves or caqueret.
Some of their fans are hope we do so if they get the promotion thankfully with hag coming in thats out of the equation.Sell Garner?
Good one.
I still think his ceiling would be highest as a ball playing central defender; his posture and positioning in midfield just look wrong to me.
I didn't say his main talents didn't lie elsewhere, just that I find his positioning and tackling to be quite impressive.
Got to give him his chance next season. Barring a rubbish pre-season, he should get good game time during the season to continue his development surrounded by better players and hopefully some great coaching and he can show what he’s made of.
If you ever watched him at the start of the season, and compare it to the second half of the season, you will see how much improvement he have made to his games. Steve Cooper definitely helped a lot as he slowly grows more and more comfortable in his role. We are talking about a player that went from one of the more decent midfielders in the league to one of the best. If he were playing for other clubs instead of us you lot would be clamoring for his signing. But since he's homegrown and is "free", suddenly the excitement is not there and you lot want to loan him out for yet another season despite our atrocious midfield.
We all need something to be positive about, hopefully that doesn't mean the whole fanbase puts massive expectations on him being the next best thing.
He should aim next season to match Matic's contribution from this season.
He should aim next season to match Matic's contribution from this season.
40+ games in the PL and all competitions is what he would get if he stays at Forest if they managed promotion.
Id prefer to leave him at Forest for another year if we aren't going to start him regularly.
Coming back to United in 23/24 with around 140 games played would be an excellent foundation for him.
Problem is we need legs in midfield now. We’ve been undercooked there for years. Two new signings would still only leave us with 4 players including Fred and McT. We’d need a 5th option. We’re never going to sign 3 midfielders in one window.
He will get the full opportunity in Europa. Plus regular games in the league. Remember the league will have 5 subs from next season so not only do we need a deep squad but his chances of getting significant game time will also improve.
Or coming to united with 2 full seasons in the championship, the equivalent of playing in the dutch/French/portuguese leagues and gaining promotion is already an excellent foundation.
As others have said if he was 21 playing in the french/dutch/portuguese league playing for a team pushing for their top 4, whilst performing like one of if not the best young cm in the league everyone would be salivating over him.
The kid has everything, passing, tackling, positioning. The question is not whether he can hack it in the premier league as nowadays the championship is so strong there is not much difference being in a top 5/6 championship team and a bottom 5/6 premiership team The only question is can he hack it at united which can only be assessed by him playing for united.
Regarding tuanzebe, I had high hopes for him but even I could see the weaknesses that he had whilst at villa, mainly being very bad aerially for a defender and sometimes struggling physically. These weaknesses combined with Ole not giving him enough gametime practically killed his career.
Does he have any real potential, or is he just another Gibson?
Yeah I don't have any real opinion on him either way unlike some posters in here that say he isn't good enough but haven't watched him much at all. But I completely disagree with wanting to loan him back out again. It's been evident in football that if you're good enough you are good enough, and him coming back under a new manager and clean slate in a squad that will be ripe with spots in the starting XI for players to win is an ideal situation if he's ever to play for us. Not comparing the two skill wise (obviously), but Pedri is bossing the best teams in the world as a 19 year old that was shoved into an abomination of a Barca side. This idea that players need to have at least 100-200 games for lower level teams in order to help us as a club is outdated, especially when we are as bad as we are. I'd rather have him battling it out here even if we aren't a great side as opposed to him being under siege at a bottom table team.
Wouldn't be the worst thing if United have no intention of giving him game time next season.Sell Garner?
Good one.
Buyback clauses exist you know...
This seems like a good time to make a decision on Garner. He's 21 years old, he's had a couple of successful years on loan, the squad needs refreshing. What else are we really waiting for? There are plenty of data points available to either support his inclusion in the squad or to consider selling him with a clause included, as suggested. His stock will be relatively high. I'd love to see him get a go because he's come through the system and that's important, but only if he's truly good enough.
It will show that the club is starting to change. He is a valuable asset now and if they don't think he has it in him to be a top midfielder, just sell him.
Let's not make him into another Tuanzebe.
With us not having DM as it is and Matic and Pogba leaving I think Garner will be here to make up the numbers in the squad. We basically need 2 DMs.
I don't see us signing 2 midfielders.
His contract is 2024+1 I believe.
Telegraph saying Ten Haag rates Garner highly along with Garnacho and Mejbri. Seems like he'll be with us next season.
You are overrating the Championship and underrating these 3 leagues. There is no way the Championship is the equivalent of them 3 tbh.
Never a better time to breakthrough.
We don't have a midfield so if he does well he can surely walk into one of the spots.
We don't have a midfield so if he does well he can surely walk into one of the spots.
Maybe in terms of the top teams (Ajax, Benfica etc). But I think if you take the 3 promoted teams from the past couple seasons and put them in those leagues they'd be midtable pretty easily.
Is there any way we can recall Garner back for these last few matches?
Forest fans think he is brilliant and could be a future England player. They might be getting carried away, but he's done very well on loan. I'd be temped to give him another season there - we already need to sign two midfielders and we shouldn't risk one of them being him. If he's really good he'll come into our side next year and we'll hopefully have great options in midfield
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