Why does nobody ever keep the same energy for McTominay? He’s literally the worst footballer of the 3.
James Garner
- Thread starter RussellWilson
- Start date
There’s a lot of potential there and a fair amount of ability. Bringing him in could allow us to focus funds elsewhere.
If he reads this, one thing I’d like you to focus on a bit more mate is your marking. Not particularly because it’s a weakness but just because I think it’s some low hanging fruit for you and especially important to the role I’d like you to play for us.
Developing in a really promising way though.
If he reads this, one thing I’d like you to focus on a bit more mate is your marking. Not particularly because it’s a weakness but just because I think it’s some low hanging fruit for you and especially important to the role I’d like you to play for us.
Developing in a really promising way though.
people keep saying fred out but he’s literally the safest of all our midfielders I think. he’s massively underrated in terms of what he brings to the team.
You mean the guy who keeps losing us key games?
His numbers are better than McT in every single game. Pass completion, ball recoveries, tackles, etc. Every game he outperforms him. Yet he is the scapegoat while McT gets off Scott free (see what I did there)
Id rather Garner go on loan to a PL team & get games than sit on our bench all season anyway. He needs minutes to develop.
Yeah those daft losses of possession and shit passes really spurred us on this year. He’s shit.
Because he scores goals so at the very least we can bring him on to help attack when needed
Fred is also the most dribbled past player in the team outside of Bruno.His numbers are better than McT in every single game. Pass completion, ball recoveries, tackles, etc. Every game he outperforms him. Yet he is the scapegoat while McT gets off Scott free (see what I did there)
Id rather Garner go on loan to a PL team & get games than sit on our bench all season anyway. He needs minutes to develop.
'Pass completion' means nothing if you give away passes straight into a counter opportunity and frankly Fred has more than a few mad moments in him both on the ball and trying to win it back.
The sooner we see the back of him the better for our chances of winning anything.
On Garner we should keep hold of him, he'll get plenty of game time if we're not able to bring in someone to improve the pivot and Matic leaves.
Yeah, Fred is at least a consistent 6 out of 10. McTominay has a couple 8 out 10 performances a season, but several more 3s and 4s.
It's literally the opposite of what you just posted.
McTominay has been off the boil very recently but he's usually reliable. I guess in football people are only as good as their last game...
No way Fred is the safest. McTominay is absolutely the safest. He’s the best in the air from defensive set plays and probably the best at bringing the ball upfield with his dribbling. Where he lacks is in his passing from deep where he’s not super accurate and oftentimes “safe” (something you seem to admire in Fred).
On the other hand Fred is super inconsistent with his touch and his passing from deep is very hit and miss. Also he has a tendency to overplay right in front of our penalty box and give away stupid balls in dangerous areas that lead to chances.
jeez, this thread is another mess and full of McT fanboys. He's by far the first player to upgrade after Lindelof in the team. He can't really defend, clos spaces quickly enough to be even dependant defensively, but obviously a slight upgrade on Matic in that regard. Also very slow moving around to be available for a pass, he's got absolutely horrible passing stats, attempted stats because he's hiding all the time or not dynamic enough to be available for a pass and when he plays some it's 5 meter pass mostly like if he's got blinders on him and usually takes so much longer without creating anything.
I mean how are people so blind or lack any kind of knowledge not to see he's pretty much useless as a midfielder other than adding some strgnth but really he wouldn't start for any team in the premier league, once we upgrade on him teams like WBA will go snap him up maybe.
Fred on the other hand is not flawless but he's much better at covering spaces and for his players when they lose the ball, he's first player to defend and attack too . His passing is so much sharper and faster with an occasional brainfart, complecancy but his contribution passing wise and defensively is incomparable with the likes of McT who showed in two games last season that he can bring some goals but he never showed that again because he neither has that ability or mentality to match performances like that. In longterm we would hope to upgrade on both Fred and McTominay but Fred is least of our problems now while with McTominay we can't really think of challenging against the best teams in the country longterm, the gulf of quality is really huge.
First we should upgrade/release Matic, then McTominay, then Fred but without Fred there's no other midfielder to run and win the ball for us in midfield in such rate while providing dynamic quick passing. If people can't see our football resembles a game with zombie tempo than obviously we it's absolutely needless to discuss it as for me it has to be clear to see even for a football fan coming from and with non-footballing background or knowledge. But yeah waste of time.
Why have you come into a Garner thread and made a post that long about McT & Fred without one mention of the player this thread is about?
Go post about it in one of their threads.
If you ignore the stupid ball-losses Fred has almost in every game he is a very good player - the problem is you can't ignore ball-losses like that.
Just a reminder, this is a Garner thread, not a thread to talk about Fred and McT.
Back to Garner, he offers something none of our CMs do and would be great in the squad next year, he seems to deal with the physicality of the Championship well too.
Back to Garner, he offers something none of our CMs do and would be great in the squad next year, he seems to deal with the physicality of the Championship well too.
You do know that McTominay is our top scorer outside of attackers right? In spite of the fact he's usually the one to maintain the defensive shape when our fullbacks progress up the pitch which is something we barely ever ask Fred to do because he is like a red setter bounding after a fecking tennis ball. Fred gets passed by almost as much as he gets the tackle in which leaves us exposed with space in behind him. His two redeeming qualities are his stamina / recovery speed and his two footedness, beyond that he's average as they come.
Its funny that you talk about people not knowing football when teams usually use Fred as either the spare man in midfield because he's so inoffensive with the ball that there's almost no risk to him having it, or as the trigger to press because he freaks out and loses it a lot- but he's obviously a great sharp passer.
Arguing Fred vs McTominay is like arguing shit buttie vs vomit smoothie, as for Garner, the rumoured Brighton loan would be ideal given how Potter plays and a season in the PL will test him physically.
Garner loan so we can get Bissouma?
Bissouma and Garner would be a really good midfield.
Having not watched much of him, is he capable of being a metronome?
Does he keep the game ticking for a team?
We don’t necessarily need a CDM if we have a Carrick player recycling possession and keeping the team flowing.
Does he keep the game ticking for a team?
We don’t necessarily need a CDM if we have a Carrick player recycling possession and keeping the team flowing.
That's exactly the type of player he is, I would say.
must be a goldfish.
yes he made an error against liverpool but shaw should have got rid of it, henderson should have caught it.
he has the odd iffy pass but he’s nowhere near as bad as you make out.
Fred has been 'loose' with the ball all season long. Giving away possession with horrible passes.
Garner is one player that doesnt seem to do that often, he seems comfortable holding off players with the ball and has much better passing range.
We know his passing is the weakest point of his game, he makes up for it in other areas. His work rate and interceptions are top class, he's constantly helping out Shaw when our LW doesn't track back, he practically plays 2 positions.
He just needs to tidy up those brainfarts that he sometimes has, but like his 2nd half performance away to Tottenham when he's good he's very good.
He'll never be good enough in my opinion or at least he shouldnt be the best CM we have, to some extent McT and Fred are too similar that neither makes up for the others weaknesses(except McT is decent in the air).
Both Fred and McT COULD be in the pivot of a title winning team, just with a better player next to them.
I don't think we should be in a rush to get rid of either, we should be intending to buy a better CM.
As I've mentioned Garner has the attributes to be a great partner next to either as he is really comfortable on the ball. I don't mean that to say that Garner is the player we need to help win the league, he's a few years off being THAT good.
It goes without saying that if the pace of the game is quick than the individual would need to have a good turn of pace as well, the rest of the traits you mention should be prerequisites for a professional footballer as far as I am concerned.
Both mct and fred are way off what we need in the middle of the park. The difference between the 2 is that Mct has some potential to develop into a goalscoring box to box midfielder, whereas Fred has hit his ceiling, which not good enough.His numbers are better than McT in every single game. Pass completion, ball recoveries, tackles, etc. Every game he outperforms him. Yet he is the scapegoat while McT gets off Scott free (see what I did there)
Instead, Garner goes on loan to a PL team & get games, then sit on our bench all season anyway. He needs minutes to develop.
So you're telling the Garner thread has turned into McT vs Fred... Never change caf! 
Back to Garner, he's not a viable option yet is he? I hear he did well on loan but would he be being ready for us at this stage or would he need a PL loan?
Back to Garner, he's not a viable option yet is he? I hear he did well on loan but would he be being ready for us at this stage or would he need a PL loan?
Posters were saying the same thing this time last year about Bellingham and yet he goes straight into the Dortmund side and he will probably be in the National side for the EurosSo you're telling the Garner thread has turned into McT vs Fred... Never change caf!
Back to Garner, he's not a viable option yet is he? I hear he did well on loan but would he be being ready for us at this stage or would he need a PL loan?
I take the point about Bellingham but 20 is generally too young for a CM/DM at a club like United.
I'm not making assumptions, I'm asking for other's opinions as I haven't watched him play for Forest.
I remember back when people said the same thing about Lio Messi and Giu Rossi.
Joke aside, I like James Garner, both in style and attitude. I have no idea when it would be ideal for him to come back to United. It took Michael Carrick until 25 to reach that level in a similar position, though.
Garner should phase out Matic and Fred slowly.
Give the lad games with our team. He can always go back out on loan after
Give the lad games with our team. He can always go back out on loan after
The only way we will know if he's ready, if we give him a chance in the first team. And considering the lack of craft and guile in our midfield, it's plausible to say he deserves a chance.
Paul Scholes, Iniesta, Xavi. None of them were quick.
Scholes was not slow but the three you have mentioned would be classified as world class footballers.
What about players like Jorginho who looked good in their former league but are as slow as a wet week.
Jorginho's problem is that he's a bit shit, not that he's slow.
Neither of them should be regular first eleven starters, whether one is better than the other is irrelevant. For me we definately dont need both and either of them are really valuable squad members but very average starters. A quality central midfield signing will hopefully rectify that
Fred or McTominay would look so much better playing alongside a proper DM. They're box to box midfielders who've been asked to do a job for 2 seasons. Their energy, physicality and ability to bomb forward would get used more while their suspect positioning and inconsistent passing would matter less.
Of course, Pogba would also benefit massively in midfield just as he did when paired with Matic in his swansong period post-lockdown. But Pogba can now also conceivably play on the left forward area, though at the expense of Rashford.
Ultimately, I hope very much that Garner gives us.a great long-term option as a DM. It's the biggest ROI area in Solksjaer's team right now.
Of course, Pogba would also benefit massively in midfield just as he did when paired with Matic in his swansong period post-lockdown. But Pogba can now also conceivably play on the left forward area, though at the expense of Rashford.
Ultimately, I hope very much that Garner gives us.a great long-term option as a DM. It's the biggest ROI area in Solksjaer's team right now.
I always think of box to box as a midfielder who can score goals and Scott fits the bill but Fred simply cannot shoot a ball FFS!
Garner isn't slow either so I'm not sure why you keep commenting as if he is. I'm not suggesting he's rapid but I've never watched him and thought he looks painfully slow.
McT spent his time in reserves when he was 19/20 years old. McT only started getting decent amount of first team football games at 21. Going on loan is probably better than spending in reserves for Garner, thus why people were expecting one more season on loan and may be ready for first team football games at 21.