His refusal to wear the poppy etc pre-dates BLM by years so there’s no need to shoe-horn that in.
James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'
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This has made me want to go through the poppy thread again.
He is. If he were kept his head down and didnt make it public they wouldn't notice him.
Half of the posts i see every year about it is if he hates Britain so much why is he taking queens head added with his republican views. It all follows the same pattern.
He shouldn't have to justify why people racially abusing hinlm is wrong but theres a lot of he deserves it sentiment floating about.
Don't understand? My bloody father is a a Catholic from Derry. I know all to well.
I 100 percent believe McLean is abused because he's McLean and not because of his beliefs.
I honestly think if another nationalist player brought this up and made it a talking point it would gain traction and something would be done.
That’s niche.
Ok I will, I think you are uneducated in terms of history, you are totally clueless in trying to justify him getting abuse and you are classless by saying if it happened to Shane Long everyone would back him but they wont back McClean. So make a stadn against Racism and Bigotry as long as the person involved isnt a dick.
Absolute nonsense
I personally have no problem with getting anti Irish abuse hurled at me and I've got plenty of it over the years from the neighbours to people outside of Ireland. I just laugh and give it back. But to some other folk that might not be the case.
McClean is correct. But like anytime he speaks you can spot the bigots straight in claiming its just because he a twat and deflecting any abuse coming his way like he asked for it. Best one was him spending the queen's money playing for a English club, how dare he........he didn't earn it..........should go back to where he came from...........he should do what he told the wee Paddy.
It's pathetic to be honest. It flare up again around rememberance day and people get up in arms about the lad from Derry who refuses to wear one like it's a serious debate, and be same abuse, but sure he a plonker
You've come at me saying he's a horrible character with his on pitch demeanour, by making a totally unrelated comment about abuse he receives.
Complete whataboutery.
Save your questions about whether things "deserves" abuse, to people who make comments saying stuff he does deserves abuse.
See above.
There are lots of people trying to make the same point to this lad, but his dad is a catholic from Derry so he knows what he is talkin bout. Also he knows everyone would back Shane Long, but wont make a stand because McClean is a twat. There ya go. Thats a summary of where we are at. Sad but sure look, no point arguing with people who know betterAbsolute nonsense
I personally have no problem with getting anti Irish abuse hurled at me and I've got plenty of it over the years from the neighbours to people outside of Ireland. I just laugh and give it back. But to some other folk that might not be the case.
McClean is correct. But like anytime he speaks you can spot the bigots straight in claiming its just because he a twat and deflecting any abuse coming his way like he asked for it. Best one was him spending the queen's money playing for a English club, how dare he........he didn't earn it..........should go back to where he came from...........he should do what he told the wee Paddy.
It's pathetic to be honest. It flare up again around rememberance day and people get up in arms about the lad from Derry who refuses to wear one like it's a serious debate, and be same abuse, but sure he a plonker
Im saying I understand the the history and the beliefs that McLean has, and has a right to stand up and defend, and be heard which you tried to say I don't.
Well, I personally disagree, that it’s the right way to go about it. Shouldn’t matter, whether he has lapses of judgment i.e balaclavas and quoting lyrics about the RA. Although, of course daft as they are. Whatever his opinion is, at the end of the day he feels very strongly about it, and now he feels like the FA aren’t dealing with the issue. I see his point. I’m happy to agree to disagree on the matter though.
Oh I see his point, sorry I know its not coming across like that because I've gone abit of tangent here.
My original point was I don't think anyone will do anything about it because its McLean.
No one should be suffering abuse for anything in this day and age and its not on whatsoever.
We agree on that entirely paxi
He needs someone else pushing for the change for the chnsge to be made.
Boring topic to be honest.
fair play to him for highlighting the abuse he receives but sure he has asked for it, for being vocal about where he from and what his beliefs are, oh and not wearing a poppy which I thought be obvious. How dare he, keep quiet and if you don't like go back to Derry
I think my background means I have nearly as much of an insight as you just because your father being from Derry.
Being 6years old, in my fathers arms waiting from a train in London in the 1980s and witnessing a Policeman spit in my fathers face because he was speaking irish to my mother at the time. Having spent years in England with a thick Irish accent, I can confirm there are plenty who still mock and abuse irish. The "dont have any bombs on ya" comment is a particular favourite. If you think anti-irish sentiments are only a form of football terrace abuse save for people deemed to be idiots, then I can see why you have the view you do have.
Well that’s the crux of the problem, just because it’s McLean and he espoused republican, anti-British views, doesn’t make him fair game.
BINGO!!!!!!
It's horrible you had to go through that, and people shouldn't have to go through that or any other type of abuse.
The people doing this and racism, bigotry etc are all scum.. no one is denying that.
I live in omagh and we as a town obviously had the omagh bomb, so i could be totally biased against someone dressing in a balaclava "teaching" his kids. I will freely admit that.
But I also 100 percent believe if there was someone else leading and calling for sectarian abuse to be stamped out, something would be done about it.
Do you not think that?
I spent time in the British military and I occasionally got called a paddy and a bog rat, although I laughed it off, primarily because I wasn’t even Irish or Northern Irish by birth. I just grew up in Northern Ireland. Though I understood those soldiers as well, most of them have served in Northern Ireland and they still had their own entrenched views.
Attacking the mans intelligence or character while pretending to condemn the bigotry and abuse he receives is such a tired play.
You've seen it for years. People pretending they hate racism, but not those black fellas who don't help themselves by breaking the law. People pretending to support women in the workplace but not that one because she has to be such a bitch about it.
For centuries the English have loved painting the thick Paddy as an uncultured, uneducated idiot because it allows them to discredit and silence the individual any time he points out the atrocities they committed over here. They've used the same tactics in India and Africa - it's textbook from them.
Nowadays it's not even intentional from the average Joe on the street - it's just so ingrained in their culture that they default to "ah yeah sure it's not great, but he's a thick Paddy so he probably deserves it" whenever an issue pops up that threatens cognitive dissonance.
You've seen it for years. People pretending they hate racism, but not those black fellas who don't help themselves by breaking the law. People pretending to support women in the workplace but not that one because she has to be such a bitch about it.
For centuries the English have loved painting the thick Paddy as an uncultured, uneducated idiot because it allows them to discredit and silence the individual any time he points out the atrocities they committed over here. They've used the same tactics in India and Africa - it's textbook from them.
Nowadays it's not even intentional from the average Joe on the street - it's just so ingrained in their culture that they default to "ah yeah sure it's not great, but he's a thick Paddy so he probably deserves it" whenever an issue pops up that threatens cognitive dissonance.
Not every Irish player was born in Derry and actually don’t understand or know half of what actually went on up there. He’s seen it at 1st hand so if he doesn’t want to wear the poppy he’s well entitled to do so . He mightn’t be the cleverest at dealing with it but he definitely doesn’t deserve half the crap he puts up with.
What I was trying to say..............nailed it
I've kept quiet about this over the last few years, mainly because even though I'm an Irish Republican myself (would have no love for McCleans political beliefs, however), and have no issue with saying it, the issues surrounding James McClean are extremely nuanced.
1. I think he's a bit dim, he puts his foot in his mouth the odd time with his social media posts almost always have him coming across a bit simple.
2. He's absolutely right that there is still a lot of Anti-Irish discrimination in The U.K. Is it as bad, or as prevalent as the racism other communities suffer? Of course not. Does that mean that the abuse he's received online, and in the media, and in the terraces any less bigoted, and upsetting to him and his family?
3. A lot of British people through no fault of their own are completely oblivious to the terror that was done in the name of Queen and Country in Ireland, especially in Northern Ireland, especially in Derry. Perhaps the Current Events Forum is a better place to open up that particular Pandora's box.
4. Again, he's a bit dim.
1. I think he's a bit dim, he puts his foot in his mouth the odd time with his social media posts almost always have him coming across a bit simple.
2. He's absolutely right that there is still a lot of Anti-Irish discrimination in The U.K. Is it as bad, or as prevalent as the racism other communities suffer? Of course not. Does that mean that the abuse he's received online, and in the media, and in the terraces any less bigoted, and upsetting to him and his family?
3. A lot of British people through no fault of their own are completely oblivious to the terror that was done in the name of Queen and Country in Ireland, especially in Northern Ireland, especially in Derry. Perhaps the Current Events Forum is a better place to open up that particular Pandora's box.
4. Again, he's a bit dim.
The Omagh bomb was perpetrated by the RIRA, who are despised by most nationalists and Republicans. No one supported that, even hardcore republicans.
The teaching his kids, wearing the balaclava was silly. but the singing old republican song, i would have no issue with. Walk into ANY pub in Ireland (hopefully they open soon so we can all stay off the internet) that has a live band, you can be guaranteed to hear old IRA songs, with everyone singing along. That doesn't mean that we are all Brit hating, IRA members.They are songs about freedom fighters and heroes from the past. "Come Out Ye Black in Tans" was number one in Irish charts recently at Xmas recently ffs hahaha
I understand what you are saying, and I fully believe that most people are not scum, but there are a large element who think this is acceptable because of McCLeans background and use the "he is a dick" to justify it . Being a dickhead would never be used to excuse anti-Islam, anti-Asian, racism or any other type of abuse so it shouldn't use it here.
Could you explain this one?
Number 3 is a very good point
You put this more eloquently than I have.
I agree entirely.
Do you think if someone else was the face of anti sectarian movement within English football, the fa would do more about it?
If not, why aren't they?
Yeah I dont understand that myself, and also agree with point 3.
No he gets abuse for not wearing a poppy. Does this make him a plonker?
I take on board everything your saying. I think you realise now that I also agree its totally unacceptable.
But when it comes to sectarian abuse in football, why do you think he is the (only?) Main Irish player to get abused?
Do you not think its because of things like the balaclava picture, which of course was obviously intended as a joke.
Wouldn't have any time at all for the PIRA at all, I'm a firm follower of James Connolly and Wolfe Tone, McClean would be a fairly well known supporter of PSF. Again, a debate for another day
The poppy and blm movements are both political and shouldn’t be in football whatsoever.
Certainly even among a lot of British people who wouldn't consider themselves anti-Irish at all. I reckon for many him refusing to wear the Poppy draws attention to events that most would like to forget and/or pretend never happened. So it's easier to demonize him and paint him as a terrorist supporting troublemaker.
He brings it upon himself they say or he's not being abused for being Irish. But he is receiving racial/sectarian anti-Irish abuse so seriously how the feck does that work?
He might be a dick but that doesn't make any of the abuse he receives ok. Especially not the racial abuse he regularly receives.The usual shit like these below every time he tries to raise the issue, if an Asian/Black/Jewish/whatever player was being racially abused i seriously doubt many would say they've brought it upon themselves. Well not many outside of the Daily Mail/Express comments sections anyway.
Because he is the only one who has refused to wear a poppy. Simple. Media called him scum. Twitter followed.
Because he bowed his head during GSTQ. Media hounded him as an terrorist lover.
He is portrayed as an uneducated lout,when the ironic thing is, its the people who believe this are the ones uneducated in terms of what the British Army did in Ireland, but especially in Derry.
Non-scum like yourself, then view all these negative things about McClean and come to the conclusion he isn't getting abuse for being irish, that it is because he is an idiot. That is wrong, so wrong. And shows that the world hasn't changed much since the 70s and 80s.
Regards blm etc,.football need to do more not less imo. They have the audience and the reach to try and make a dent in racism etc
What?
He’s the only one who doesn’t wear a poppy and he’s the only one who would be openly republican as far as I know. (Can’t think of any other Irish players who express an opinion tbh).
He wasn’t going to win any fans in England with the balaclava thing obviously-but there is another discussion to be had around that part of our history.
Absolutely, I agree. But I don’t think the black lives matter organisation is any good. Anyway- discussion for another thread.
But surely he isn't the only one not to wear a poppy?
Obviously an entirely different situation but matic doesn't wear a poppy for instance.
I'm sure if we dug hard enough we could find other Irish players playing in England not wearing one
I don’t have a problem with him not wearing one. Or having no love for GSTQ. Or with BLM. I have a problem with FA whom seem to pick and choose which battles to fight.
Yeah, I feel like the FA jump on the band wagon regarding a lot of stuff. I have the impression that they’re happy with BLM as longs as it looks like they’re the ones actively tackling the issue. When in reality: feck all is being done.
You’re right, you are a self absorbed fecking idiot.
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