Jamie Turner - For those of you un-aware.

Pogue Mahone said:
Which is the point I'm making. You punch anyone in the head there's a chance they'll fall down, smack their head on something hard and end up like this bloke.

Some people on here seem to think it's ok to give out the odd slap to people who are looking for trouble but are full of hatred for rival fans who seem to have similar attitudes to the rights and wrongs of casual violence. If someone doesn't want to get involved in a fight then it's horrible for him to end up brain injured but if someone is for up a ruck does that really make it ok?

The only difference between giving someone a bloody nose or making them paraplegic is dumb luck.
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Point taken on some of that. It's not big or clever and to be honest some seem to only give a shit when it's a United fan that's the victim.

That being said that does not apply to those posting here or who gave money to the appeal.

I'd gladly do the same for a scouser, a leeds fan or whatever. Some sick people out there.
 
londonredmaniac said:
Yes, Yes there is.

If a lad comes down Sir Matt Busby way...such as they did at Bolton at home this season...singing manchester bombing songs he deserves a fecking slap.

Knocking him to the floor while a group of you kick his head in until he gets brain damage and is missing a significant proportion of his skull is very different.

Surely you can see the difference in the two??
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Just read up on the Jamie Turner case. Seems he was struck from behind a single blow, "with some sort of weapon".

So, in terms of the injury sustained, this would be no different to someone getting punched in the face, falling backwards and hitting their head on a kerb.

Believe me, I've seen plenty of people ending up with life-changing injuries, or dead, just because someone wanted to give them "a fecking slap"
 
londonredmaniac said:
Point taken on some of that. It's not big or clever and to be honest some seem to only give a shit when it's a United fan that's the victim.

That being said that does not apply to those posting here or who gave money to the appeal.

I'd gladly do the same for a scouser, a leeds fan or whatever. Some sick people out there.
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Aye, that was the only point I was making.

And I really hope this Jamie Turner fella gets over his injuries.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just read up on the Jamie Turner case. Seems he was struck from behind a single blow, "with some sort of weapon".

So, in terms of the injury sustained, this would be no different to someone getting punched in the face, falling backwards and hitting their head on a kerb.

Believe me, I've seen plenty of people ending up with life-changing injuries, or dead, just because someone wanted to give them "a fecking slap"
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Indeed Pogue...a weapon. That's not giving someone a slap. That's smashing someone with an object.

Like i said i take your point totally. But like i said with that Bolton fan...he could not have complained if he got a dig. If i was winding my way through the kop singing Hillsborough songs i would expect the same...and worse.

I don't condone it as much as i accept it.

Southampton 'lads' yesterday were mid twenties happily laying into scarfers, shirt wearers, lads with girls..kids.

I don't see that anywhere. Not anywhere mate. Shocked me so it goes to show that maybe it backs up Jamie's case.

Again i agree that unfortunate consequences can come from giving someone a dig. The pavement thing being fairly plausable when someone goes to ground.
 
londonredmaniac said:
Yes, Yes there is.

If a lad comes down Sir Matt Busby way...such as they did at Bolton at home this season...singing manchester bombing songs he deserves a fecking slap.

Knocking him to the floor while a group of you kick his head in until he gets brain damage and is missing a significant proportion of his skull is very different.

Surely you can see the difference in the two??
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surely you can see, from the above, that there might be a difference in intent - but that does not guarantee a difference in outcome. Which makes both acts equally indefensible.
 
buildabonfire said:
surely you can see, from the above, that there might be a difference in intent - but that does not guarantee a difference in outcome. Which makes both acts equally indefensible.
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I agree totally with the first part. Fair point.

But i reckon intent has an awful lot to do with it. Are you saying you have never given someone a dig?

You could have pushed someone, for example, and knocked them over a garden wall, lad bangs his head and ends up with brain damage. And you're saying that's as bad as taking a blunt instrument and smashing someone from behind over the back of the head?
 
londonredmaniac said:
Indeed Pogue...a weapon. That's not giving someone a slap. That's smashing someone with an object.

Like i said i take your point totally. But like i said with that Bolton fan...he could not have complained if he got a dig. If i was winding my way through the kop singing Hillsborough songs i would expect the same...and worse.

I don't condone it as much as i accept it.

Southampton 'lads' yesterday were mid twenties happily laying into scarfers, shirt wearers, lads with girls..kids.

I don't see that anywhere. Not anywhere mate. Shocked me so it goes to show that maybe it backs up Jamie's case.

Again i agree that unfortunate consequences can come from giving someone a dig. The pavement thing being fairly plausable when someone goes to ground.
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Yeah, I'm being devil's advocate here.

When I was a bit younger and a lot more red-blooded I gave out the occasional slap on a Friday/Saturday night. I was always pissed and usually convinced that whoever got hit deserved it. I've also been on the receiving end of a few digs in my time and I reckon I deserved it, each and every time.

It was only after working with people who were in rehab after head injuries (one of whom had hit a concrete kerb, after a single punch) that I really stopped to think about the consequences of "just a slap". Now I'm a committed pacifist and try to be a lover not a fighter.

In another decade or so the loving will probably be a lot more scarce too. Feck knows what I'll call myself then ;)
 
buildabonfire said:
surely you can see, from the above, that there might be a difference in intent - but that does not guarantee a difference in outcome. Which makes both acts equally indefensible.
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So your telling me a lad that gave me a slap at at game deserves the same as the lads that did this?

Don't be fecking stupid, he gave me a slap, provoked or not, I carried on my day as normal.

These guys took a weapon to a guys head, unprovoked, and destroyed his and his families lives. They deserve the same?

Not a chance. They should of been locked up for a long long time... scum.
 
manxmanc said:
So your telling me a lad that gave me a slap at at game deserves the same as the lads that did this?

Don't be fecking stupid, he gave me a slap, provoked or not, I carried on my day as normal.

These guys took a weapon to a guys head, unprovoked, and destroyed his and his families lives. They deserve the same?

Not a chance. They should of been locked up for a long long time... scum.
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His injuries are consistent with a single blow from a "weapon"

Or falling backwards and smacking his head on a kerb, after getting a slap.

Far as I can make out, nobody knows exactly what happened.
 
manxmanc said:
So your telling me a lad that gave me a slap at at game deserves the same as the lads that did this?

Don't be fecking stupid, he gave me a slap, provoked or not, I carried on my day as normal.

These guys took a weapon to a guys head, unprovoked, and destroyed his and his families lives. They deserve the same?

Not a chance. They should of been locked up for a long long time... scum.
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I'm saying, quite clearly I think, that you can't guarantee that a slap at a game doesn't cause the same injuries as an unprovoked beasting.

At what point does the possibility of a slap ending up with someone falling and cracking their head on the kerb make the slap wrong? 1 in a million? 1 in a hundred? 1 in 2?
 
buildabonfire said:
I'm saying, quite clearly I think, that you can't guarantee that a slap at a game doesn't cause the same injuries as an unprovoked beasting.

At what point does the possibility of a slap ending up with someone falling and cracking their head on the kerb make the slap wrong? 1 in a million? 1 in a hundred? 1 in 2?
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Theres a clear difference between the intentions thought.

Would you agree?
 
to be fair i think everyone has made their feelings on the matter clear. Mostly fair opinions i reckon.

But maybe best to get back to the subject of the thread and remember Jamie Turner...and also remember how much United and football fans donated to his treatment and all the support shown towards him. A great gesture of solidarity.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, I'm being devil's advocate here.

When I was a bit younger and a lot more red-blooded I gave out the occasional slap on a Friday/Saturday night. I was always pissed and usually convinced that whoever got hit deserved it. I've also been on the receiving end of a few digs in my time and I reckon I deserved it, each and every time.

It was only after working with people who were in rehab after head injuries (one of whom had hit a concrete kerb, after a single punch) that I really stopped to think about the consequences of "just a slap". Now I'm a committed pacifist and try to be a lover not a fighter.

In another decade or so the loving will probably be a lot more scarce too. Feck knows what I'll call myself then ;)
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10 years? You're married now. I give it 10 weeks.
 
manxmanc said:
So your telling me a lad that gave me a slap at at game deserves the same as the lads that did this?

Don't be fecking stupid, he gave me a slap, provoked or not, I carried on my day as normal.

These guys took a weapon to a guys head, unprovoked, and destroyed his and his families lives. They deserve the same?

Not a chance. They should of been locked up for a long long time... scum.
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There was a thread in the Current Events forum recently about some bloke in Wales who gave someone a slap for saying he looked like Wayne Rooney - the other bloke fell over, hit his head on the pavement and died later.
The bloke is up for manslaughter ...

Edit: https://www.redcafe.net/f13/man-killed-after-rooney-chant-228028/
 
I didn't intend fr this thread to go in this direction...

There were alot of cocks from Southampton out and about yesterday, but as always Utd had their first share aswell.

Saw quite a bit of bother.

Don't associate with Jamie Turner, he was completely innocent, there's not even a question about that...
 
Utd heap said:
I didn't intend fr this thread to go in this direction...

There were alot of cocks from Southampton out and about yesterday, but as always Utd had their first share aswell.

Saw quite a bit of bother.

Don't associate with Jamie Turner, he was completely innocent, there's not even a question about that...
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The sad thing is that it is often the completely innocent people who end up getting caught in the crossfire between different factions
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Like I said, I know nothing about the specifics of this case.

Out of interest, and I'm talking hypothetically here, would you extend the same sympathy to a United fan who got all bevvied up and initiated a bit of a ruck with some local fans who were up for a scrap - which ended in the same outcome?
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What hospital do you work in Pogue ? One of my sisters worked in the ICU of St. James' for years
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I did a stint in James' a while back. In "hospital 6". Your sister will be able to confirm to you what a shit-hole it is/was!
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That the one in Leeds?

My cuz worked there, she often informed us how bad it really was...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
No, Dublin. But hospitals seem to be shit-holes pretty much everywhere I've worked.

I used to go out with nurse who worked in Leeds. She was from Bolton though.

Christ, could this thread get any more off-topic?!? ;)
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Blimey.
 
roodboy said:
The sad thing is that it is often the completely innocent people who end up getting caught in the crossfire between different factions
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Hence, surely, the need to decry all such violence - rather than glory in a certain 'reputation' of Utd's away fans as some have done.
 
To make Jamie's plight doubly sad was that NHS would not do the final operation because it was not urgent despite what his course of treatment recommended. So he lived over 6 months with a hole in his skull which was in danger of caving in and making him a vegetable. It took an on-line petition of thousands of signatures and the intervention of local MPs before the bastards at the NHS gave in. Fortunately, the op was done in a hospital different than the one he was originally treated in.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, I'm being devil's advocate here.

When I was a bit younger and a lot more red-blooded I gave out the occasional slap on a Friday/Saturday night. I was always pissed and usually convinced that whoever got hit deserved it. I've also been on the receiving end of a few digs in my time and I reckon I deserved it, each and every time.

It was only after working with people who were in rehab after head injuries (one of whom had hit a concrete kerb, after a single punch) that I really stopped to think about the consequences of "just a slap". Now I'm a committed pacifist and try to be a lover not a fighter.

In another decade or so the loving will probably be a lot more scarce too. Feck knows what I'll call myself then ;)
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ya hooligan you :D
 
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