Sweet Square
Full Member
What they offered in 2017 was light reforms, there was nothing that should of scared any moderated centre liberal voter. The manifesto 2017 was about updating Britain into the 21st century.Do you think a Corbyn-led Labour government would be just a standard social democratic regime that no reasonable moderates should worry about (seems to be the implication of your posts above)? Or is Corbyn Britain's only chance for real, radical workers-led change/revolution?
The next manifesto might be a little bit different. The pushing forward of ideas similar to the Meidner Plan and the 4 day work week I image do test what a moderated views as well......moderated. But while testing it's not revolutionary, the percentage of shares start off I think at 10%, there's good data showing a 4 day work week would actually be more productive, some unions in Germany have recently won the right to a 28 work hour week and the guy who basically saved liberalism - Keynes thought we'd all end working 15 hour work weeks by now.
Yes big changes but not revolutionary and considering the future we are facing - Climate change, rising far right, rising inequity etc. It isn't so much socialism or barbarism but potentially radical social democracy or barbarism(Isn't as catchy sadly). If someone is struggling to move to the left then I'm not sure how liberal or moderate they really are.(Btw we are in this situation because of the failures of liberalism which have resulted in the only people offering reforms being marxists)
To me the potential for real worker power will be the reaction to a Labour government
- A coalition government with Lib Dem/SNP/Green then I think we will get basic reforms such living wage, better union rights, pv voting and at the most extreme - top down nationalisation. With the Labour government under constant media attack and a somewhat stubborn civil services. None of this is a enough to solve the crisis we are in.
- Labour majority(I know unlikely but it's worth saying anyway)then I think we will see a civil service trying its best to stop any reforms, constant attacks from the media, revolts from people inside the on the Labour right and outside inference from the US. All of this won't lead to any sort of revolution but I could see it pushing the Corbyn project to further to the left which could lead to mass strikes, protest movements etc.
You've turned Tory into a pejorative word and are using it to insult anyone who disagrees with you. Why do you think people will take you seriously?
Mr Bevan seem to do alright in life.What is Toryism but organised spivvery? … No amount of cajolery can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party … So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
To be more serious it's about peoples class interest. Thatcher with the backing of British capital was able to appeal to a broad range of the public and to her credit made people into long term tory voters. I always say this but people really should watch The Long Good Friday & The Cook The Thief His Wife And Her Lover.Like the millions of non-Tories who voted for Thatcher because every couple of months for years, they made a quick couple of hundred quid buying and immediately selling shares in the privatisations which she instigated and which have done so much to leave the UK's economy and infrastructure in the hands of foreign governments and Hedge Funds or bought their council houses for next-to-nothing and for which she should be dug up and then publically executed on the Town Hall steps before being put back where she came from.
Yeah I would agree this could happen. Although its impossible to know at the moment, I'm not even sure after the tory leadership race that the brexit party will be around.I think Corbyn will have to come up with even more expensive, vote winning promises to get these people to vote for Labour again - the pro-Brexit lot would vote for Johnson or Farage ( if the GE was to be before the UK is out of the EU, which is quite possible the way it's going ) because of the antics of Starmer, Cooper, Benn, etc, and those for who anti-Brexit is more important than who's in charge after the GE will vote LibDem because of the obfuscation and antics of Corbyn.
The fear of McDonnell, the clumsiness of Abbott and the hypocrisy of Thornberry probably wouldn't even be a factor.
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