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2021-22 Performances


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VidaRed

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Feck me, are the players rebelling ? Ole at the wheel no more!
 

ti vu

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Fair response. I wish he’d added that it’s not his fault Ole is a fecking clown!
And Lingard is not the one who his managers have found fault in his work rate/ work ethic, and his ability to follow instruction. He's more a case of not talented enough.

Strange insult thrown at him. Kudo to Lingard with his response.
 
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Marwood

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So long for the "great man manager."
Being a good man manager doesn't mean pleasing everyone all the time.

Lingard knew going into the season he was unlikely to get much game time. If he didn't he was deluded because every single fan knew it.

Nobody to blame but himself for that.
 

VidaRed

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Being a good man manager doesn't mean pleasing everyone all the time.

Lingard knew going into the season he was unlikely to get much game time. If he didn't he was deluded because every single fan knew it.

Nobody to blame but himself for that.
Unless Ole lied to him and blocked his move to west ham.
 

Marwood

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Unless Ole lied to him and blocked his move to west ham.
Well that's guesswork but whatever Ole said, Lingard himself must have known he wasn't getting games this season. Is there anybody that really thought he'd be getting a good amount of starts?
 

SAFMUTD

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Being a good man manager doesn't mean pleasing everyone all the time.

Lingard knew going into the season he was unlikely to get much game time. If he didn't he was deluded because every single fan knew it.

Nobody to blame but himself for that.
With all the rumors surfacing about many members of the squad not happy with Ole, plus rants seen with VdB, plus Bruno's and Pogba's statements I think the theory about Ole being a "great man management coach" is crumbling.

Sure it doesnt mean pleasing everyone all the time, but it sure means keeping harmony between the squad. Which is clearly not happening at the moment.
 

Marwood

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With all the rumors surfacing about many members of the squad not happy with Ole, plus rants seen with VdB, plus Bruno's and Pogba's statements I think the theory about Ole being a "great man management coach" is crumbling.

Sure it doesnt mean pleasing everyone all the time, but it sure means keeping harmony between the squad. Which is clearly not happening at the moment.
Is it clear though? Or as you say just a bunch of rumours? The daggers are out for Ole though so any character on twitter peddling a negative story is instantly believed. Happening all across this forum and I'm sure there'll be more to come.
 

Relevated

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With all the rumors surfacing about many members of the squad not happy with Ole, plus rants seen with VdB, plus Bruno's and Pogba's statements I think the theory about Ole being a "great man management coach" is crumbling.

Sure it doesnt mean pleasing everyone all the time, but it sure means keeping harmony between the squad. Which is clearly not happening at the moment.
What did they say?
 

Teja

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It irritates me a bit that they're pulling these shenanigans tbf. Ole has never hung them out to dry and has always shielded them from criticism. The least they can do is keep their mouths shut. Or let someone in the squad leak a subtle hint to the press that not all is well and leave it at that.

Could take a page or two from Ronaldo's book.
 

HailtotheKing

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Being a good man manager doesn't mean pleasing everyone all the time.
Agree. Being a good man-manager means having high standards and upholding them. And following a simple rule - if you play well you're in the team, if you don't you're out.
That means first-team players know they can't drop their standards and squad players know if they work hard they have a chance. Soon as that stops happening, you've got problems. And Ole has got problems. Because Bailly sees a half-fit Maguire stinking the place out left, right and center. And Donny sees the same with McTominay. Then the other players suffer because of it and no one is happy. Really simple concept to understand and Ole has failed miserably at it. Has nothing to do with Lingard's talent. If he sees another players that's actually doing worse than he can, he's obviously gonna be pissed. Ditto Pogba and Donny, ditto Lindelof and Bailly and Telles.
 

SAFMUTD

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Is it clear though? Or as you say just a bunch of rumours? The daggers are out for Ole though so any character on twitter peddling a negative story is instantly believed. Happening all across this forum and I'm sure there'll be more to come.
Well the Bailly and other rants in the dressing room are rumors, you're right they could very much be nothing but lies even when being reported by differente sources. But what about Pogba's and Bruno's statements? those arent rumors. While not diggs directly they're clearly critizing between lines.

So if we are to believe than he's a great man manager based on rumors we could very well argue against it also with rumors.
 

SAFMUTD

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What did they say?
that several players are not happy about VdB not having minutes even when he's impressing in training, that some players are mad Ole decided to start Maguire even when he wasnt fit and Bailly even confronted him about it at half time against Leicester.
 

Marwood

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Agree. Being a good man-manager means having high standards and upholding them. And following a simple rule - if you play well you're in the team, if you don't you're out.
That means first-team players know they can't drop their standards and squad players know if they work hard they have a chance. Soon as that stops happening, you've got problems. And Ole has got problems. Because Bailly sees a half-fit Maguire stinking the place out left, right and center. And Donny sees the same with McTominay. Then the other players suffer because of it and no one is happy. Really simple concept to understand and Ole has failed miserably at it. Has nothing to do with Lingard's talent. If he sees another players that's actually doing worse than he can, he's obviously gonna be pissed. Ditto Pogba and Donny, ditto Lindelof and Bailly and Telles.
Yeah I think you make a good point and Ole has been guilty of that. I don't rate Bailly at all but starting Maguire after one training session ahead of him is a poor message to send out. Beek never getting a sniff is just out of order.

But in reality no team operates where a sub par game or two means you're out. Ability more tham current form has always dictated who gets a start.

Rashford was poor against Liverpool? You want him dropped for Spurs game?

Ronaldo was poor against Leicester. Would you have dropped him for the Atalanta game?

Lingard knows this because he was poor for a whole year and still got picked because he was still more talented than the bench options.

Now it's reversed.He's never displacing the front three or Bruno. He's not even first choice backup. There is no solid argument for him starting games.

So Lingard having a moan is nothing to do with Ole's man management. It's just typical footballer behaviour. They all think they should be starting.
 

Marwood

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that several players are not happy about VdB not having minutes even when he's impressing in training, that some players are mad Ole decided to start Maguire even when he wasnt fit and Bailly even confronted him about it at half time against Leicester.
But Bailly confronting him(if true) means what? That happens with all managers. Players don't get picked, they have a moan. It's standard. Happened god knows how many times with SAF.

Top level managers are now dealing with 25 coddled, high maintenance, individuals. It's impossible to keep the majority happy never mind all of them. Especially when you're not winning. That's crucial.
 

HailtotheKing

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Yeah I think you make a good point and Ole has been guilty of that. I don't rate Bailly at all but starting Maguire after one training session ahead of him is a poor message to send out. Beek never getting a sniff is just out of order.

But in reality no team operates where a sub par game or two means you're out. Ability more tham current form has always dictated who gets a start.

Rashford was poor against Liverpool? You want him dropped for Spurs game?

Ronaldo was poor against Leicester. Would you have dropped him for the Atalanta game?

Lingard knows this because he was poor for a whole year and still got picked because he was still more talented than the bench options.

Now it's reversed.He's never displacing the front three or Bruno. He's not even first choice backup. There is no solid argument for him starting games.

So Lingard having a moan is nothing to do with Ole's man management. It's just typical footballer behaviour. They all think they should be starting.
Agree but that only works a couple of times in a row. If you continuously stink the place out week on week then you should be out of the team. Players can see that and accept it. When it doesn't happen, it causes problems. Take Henderson for example. He can think he's the best, he can think he should be given a chance. That's natural/typical football behavior like you said. But if he sits there and watchedsDDG play world-class every game then he can bear no grudge. Whereas Donny...

There reaches a time when you have to take out the bad "more talented" player and give the other guy a chance. That is standard man-management. And Ole is terrible at it.
This isn't like Rooney who needed 10 games to regain full fitness, this is just players playing shit because they're badly out of form or still injured. And in this case, other players deserve their chance.
 
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lex talionis

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If I understand the facts correctly, Lingard has refused to sign the contract extension. Why should Ole start him or even play him? It's not as though he's a stratospheric talent like Pogba, wo when in the mood is one of the greatest midfielders on the planet. Best to pull back the contract offer and let him walk away on a free as soon as that's allowable under league rules.
 

Mainoldo

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Liking Instagram posts calling for him to be sacked is pathetic, to be honest.
Good on him. He could be a crucial player later this season under a good manager. Will work well under Conte’s system.
 

Marwood

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Agree but that only works a couple of times in a row. If you continuously stink the place out week on week then you should be out of the team. Players can see that and accept it. When it doesn't happen, it causes problems. Take Henderson for example. He can think he's the best, he can think he should be given a chance. That's natural/typical football behavior like you said. But if he sits there and watched DDG play world-class every game then he can bear no grudge. Whereas Donny...

There reaches a time when you have to take out the bad "more talented" player and give the other guy a chance. That is standard man-management. And Ole is terrible at it.
This isn't like Rooney who needs 10 games to regain full fitness, this is just players playing shit because they're badly out of form or still injured.
Totally agree about Beek. It's bad man management. But as far as I'm aware that's the only credible example. I'd love reporters to push Ole on that more.

Yeah not picking Bailly over an unfit Maguire is wrong but it's a micro decision that he got wrong. All managers make bad one off calls, it doesn't mean they're suddenly no good at something anymore.

Lingard I'm just not having. If anything Ole is being too generous in offering a new contract. Baffles me as to why.
 

HailtotheKing

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Totally agree about Beek. It's bad man management. But as far as I'm aware that's the only credible example. I'd love reporters to push Ole on that more.

Yeah not picking Bailly over an unfit Maguire is wrong but it's a micro decision that he got wrong. All managers make bad one off calls, it doesn't mean they're suddenly no good at something anymore.

Lingard I'm just not having. If anything Ole is being too generous in offering a new contract. Baffles me as to why.
Oh yeah, I'm not talking about Lingard. I'm more concerned with the players playing badly who are picked. Maguire has been TERRIBLE. He was terrible before his injury, he's atrocious right now. Legitimately responsible for most of our goals conceded and there could have been many more. I don't believe continuously picking him is a micro decision. It's core.
 

SAFMUTD

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But Bailly confronting him(if true) means what? That happens with all managers. Players don't get picked, they have a moan. It's standard. Happened god knows how many times with SAF.

Top level managers are now dealing with 25 coddled, high maintenance, individuals. It's impossible to keep the majority happy never mind all of them. Especially when you're not winning. That's crucial.
So what makes Ole's man managment special? to the point where it gets mentioned as a big strenght. "He's not a tactic coach, but he's a great man manager", if whats happening to him happens to all, then he's just a regular manager with regular man managment skills as poor tactic knowledge.
 

stevoc

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Agree. Being a good man-manager means having high standards and upholding them. And following a simple rule - if you play well you're in the team, if you don't you're out.
That means first-team players know they can't drop their standards and squad players know if they work hard they have a chance. Soon as that stops happening, you've got problems. And Ole has got problems. Because Bailly sees a half-fit Maguire stinking the place out left, right and center. And Donny sees the same with McTominay. Then the other players suffer because of it and no one is happy. Really simple concept to understand and Ole has failed miserably at it. Has nothing to do with Lingard's talent. If he sees another players that's actually doing worse than he can, he's obviously gonna be pissed. Ditto Pogba and Donny, ditto Lindelof and Bailly and Telles.
If I'm the manager and my options are a half fit Maguire or a fully fit Bailly. Then yeah I'd go with Maguire as well.
 

HailtotheKing

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If I'm the manager and my options are a half fit Maguire or a fully fit Bailly. Then yeah I'd go with Maguire as well.
Then what was the point in extending his contract. I would go with Bailly over Maguire anytime right now. Have you seen how bad he’s playing? I need to watch the goals back but I swear he was at fault for almost all the goals. He’s a walking liability. Far beyond anything bad Bailly has done playing for us. If Bailly could stay fit he’d be a player. An unfit and badly out of form Maguire is a health hazard.
 

stevoc

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Then what was the point in extending his contract. I would go with Bailly over Maguire anytime right now. Have you seen how bad he’s playing? I need to watch the goals back but I swear he was at fault for almost all the goals. He’s a walking liability. Far beyond anything bad Bailly has done playing for us. If Bailly could stay fit he’d be a player. An unfit and badly out of form Maguire is a health hazard.
:lol:

Some short memories on here. Towards the end of last season even his biggest defenders in his performance thread stopped banging that drum.

But anyway back to Lingard.
 

edgecutter

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Yeah let's not kid ourselves that Bailly is a better option. He's a reckless king fu kicking calamity.
It doesn't matter, players want chances to play and Bailly stated that he would only sign a new contract if he was assured some playing time. Watching a clearly out of form Maguire playing ahead of you would hurt. It suggests that you have no future here so why bother.

Ole should use his squad and stop with the favouritism.
 

Polar

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Definitely deserves to start against Tottenham.

Would like to see:

———————McT
——— Bruno ———Lingard
Sancho—————————Ronaldo/Rash
————Ronaldo/Cavani
 

stevoc

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It doesn't matter, players want chances to play and Bailly stated that he would only sign a new contract if he was assured some playing time. Watching a clearly out of form Maguire playing ahead of you would hurt. It suggests that you have no future here so why bother.

Ole should use his squad and stop with the favouritism.
Bailly's feelings are irrelevant though the manager picks the team based on what he thinks is his best option in each position. Maguire was the better option.

With the sheer amount of injuries Bailly has had he can't really complain, he's shown he can't be relied upon. He was offered a contract and signed it doubt there's a minimum playing time clause in it.

But anyway come on this is a Lingard thread let's not derail it.
 

edgecutter

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Definitely deserves to start against Tottenham.

Would like to see:

———————McT
——— Bruno ———Lingard
Sancho—————————Ronaldo/Rash
————Ronaldo/Cavani
If lingard isn't going to be here next season than no, he shouldn't get any minutes.
 

Josh 76

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If lingard isn't going to be here next season than no, he shouldn't get any minutes.
How do we know that?
If Ole is the manager then I guess he won’t be here next season, but if Ole isn’t then the new manager may want him next season.
 

jem

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Yeah let's not kid ourselves that Bailly is a better option. He's a reckless king fu kicking calamity.
I've never seen Bailly play as badly as Maguire played against Leicester and Liverpool. On balance, I think Maguire is the better defender, but you are going way over the top in your criticism of Bailly.
 

edgecutter

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How do we know that?
If Ole is the manager then I guess he won’t be here next season, but if Ole isn’t then the new manager may want him next season.
Since he hasn't signed, you go by what you know, and if he isn't signing we must assume he is going. Therefore, he shouldn't get minutes over guys that will be here or upcoming youngsters.
 

stevoc

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I've never seen Bailly play as badly as Maguire played against Leicester and Liverpool. On balance, I think Maguire is the better defender, but you are going way over the top in your criticism of Bailly.


I disagree.
 
Tottenham 0:3 Man Utd

SonyaCross493

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Feel sorry for Jesse. He's 29 in December he doesn't have time to waste.. he was West Ham's best player last season got West Ham in Europe becoming an England international.. he could be playing week-in and week-out for West Ham playing in the Premier League and helping them to try to win the Europa scoring goals and being there best player (probably shagging Dani Dyer instead of Bowen too!)

Jesse will be very very lucky to go to the World Cup with England at the minute if he doesn't leave Manchester United or gets more chances.

instead we have turned him into a jobber in wrestling terms making him a bench player who is lucky to get 10-15 minutes every now and then.

obviously Lingard was sold a pack of lies about playing time. And we have lost £15-£20M in selling him last summer as he will leave for free next summer. Just awful forward planning by the club the same as letting Pogba run down his contract when we should've sold him in the summer if he didn't want to stay.

For example there are games where we could rest Bruno and play Lingard or Donny in his role but instead Ole is going to run Bruno into the ground like last season and we will gas out.

At this moment in time if you are Lingard with 8-months left on your contract.. you ain't signing anything and it's sad as I believe Lingard loves the club and wanted to make a career here. A wasted year

when Lingard has come on he's had a massive impact like against West Ham and Villarreal. He's earnt more playing time but not getting rewarded for it

it's a wasted year for Lingard. And it's sad as why are the club doing this to international players? Like Donny, Bailly, Martial, Sancho etc it's ruining careers it's sad. And for what? Just incase we have an injury crisis? That's what the youth squad is for!
 
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SonyaCross493

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Left out of the England squad

maybe you should've avoided staying at Manchester United Jesse? You play well and score goals coming off the bench yet you don't get a chance.. what more can you do to impress Ole.. same as Donny etc who are all casualties in Ole lack of rotation and resting Bruno etc
 

golden_blunder

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Left out of the England squad

maybe you should've avoided staying at Manchester United Jesse? You play well and score goals coming off the bench yet you don't get a chance.. what more can you do to impress Ole.. same as Donny etc who are all casualties in Ole lack of rotation and resting Bruno etc
He’s a United fan all his life. If you’re told you’ll get a chance to impress at United and the coach is saying nice things about you in the press, then you’re going to stay
 

DutchCruijff

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I'm going to repeat this over and over because it goes to show the incompetency of the board (and how foolish they were in backing Ole this far) and the short-sighted desperation of Ole.

West Ham wanted Lingard. Moyes was told Lingard wasn't up for sale early on in the summer. Lingard was told he'd be getting plenty of game time. We could have received £20-25m for him.

Instead?

Lingard is off for free in the summer. In about 6 months. We've passed up on £25m for a player that is riding the bench.

In the PL + UCL, he has played 82 minutes for us.

To put that into perspective, Dan James has played 128 minutes for us this season and he left 2 1/2 months ago.

Absolutely laughable.
 
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