Joao Neves

Drz

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He's pretty bloody good in the air for his size and I don't think he'll struggle much physically, but I'm not too sure about building a midfield around two 19 year olds, regardless of their quality. Chelsea's attempts to get Caicedo and Enzo going is a bit of a cautionary tale and they've got years on Mainoo and Neves - arguably talent too. Experience does help.
Very fair assessment. Obviously I don't have an issue with his aerial ability but doubts about physicality given the premier league... Experience as you point out is an issue.
Related, but on another note I was always surprised we signed Bruno, as I never felt United operated with a 10. In an alternate word for example, a 27 year old Casemiro with Mainoo and Neves either side of him would offer us more balance than any combination involving Bruno (as much as I love the player).

Also a question I have to ask regular viewers of J.Neves, what's his speed like? Because I also feel, in our current setup, Bruno drops deep too often as he seems faster than Casemiro and Mainoo. (In that sense Ole's recent comments on Fred ring true).
 

Ali Dia

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I’d say we could get him for £75 million if we are decisive. They’ll offer him a new deal soon with a big release clause on it and then they’ll hold onto him until someone cracks and just goes and pays it or else keep the player and enjoy for another few seasons. If he doesn't fully live up to it they’ll still get big money for him at any point over the next few years. It just depends on how sure of him succeeding we are. If he’s the one then we need to move a lot smarter and quicker than we have been. I’d imagine even Real might sign him if Modric goes.
 

CannonBalls

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I’d say we could get him for £75 million if we are decisive. They’ll offer him a new deal soon with a big release clause on it and then they’ll hold onto him until someone cracks and just goes and pays it or else keep the player and enjoy for another few seasons. If he doesn't fully live up to it they’ll still get big money for him at any point over the next few years. It just depends on how sure of him succeeding we are. If he’s the one then we need to move a lot smarter and quicker than we have been. I’d imagine even Real might sign him if Modric goes.
He is not moving for anything below his release clause of 120m euros.
They want to increase that to 150m+ in the new deal.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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Looks good, just don’t see it happening. Like I’ve never been so sure of a transfer not happening.

Destined for Bayern, PSG, City or Atletico.
 

Bondi77

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Why are the Benfica players so expensive to buy?
I know they are probably the biggest club in their country but the league is not the greatest and yet they cost a fortune.
Dias was a decent buy but he has matched his fee I would imagine by today's standards but I struggle with the rest.
 

Lu Tze

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These types of players are a trap we should not fall into.

For big sums, we should be buying players that have truly proven themselves over 3-4 seasons in other leagues and are recognised top performers. Ideally those that also have limited time left on their contract and clearly want a bigger move.

Our scouting needs to be focused on finding these kids before they break into the first teams (E.g Garnacho) and not paying £100m for them after 1 year.
 

daba

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These types of players are a trap we should not fall into.

For big sums, we should be buying players that have truly proven themselves over 3-4 seasons in other leagues and are recognised top performers. Ideally those that also have limited time left on their contract and clearly want a bigger move.

Our scouting needs to be focused on finding these kids before they break into the first teams (E.g Garnacho) and not paying £100m for them after 1 year.
Have you seen him play? He’s immense, very hard not to be impressed when you’ve watched him.
 

Lu Tze

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Have you seen him play? He’s immense, very hard not to be impressed when you’ve watched him.
I've not seen him play live, but I still don't think any kids (outside of clearly generational ones like Mbappe etc) are worth 100m after one season of experience. The risk is just too high. A lot of players look great in Portugal that don't translate at all.
 
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Baneofthegame

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Just don’t see him as a 100 million talent, especially with our limiting spending, could probably buy Varela and Thuram or Todibo and Branthwaite for a similar amount of money.

Especially with the drop off in the quality from our first team to the reserves currently spending 100 million on Neves with a years worth of Portuguese league experience seems very risky.
 

José Mateus

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Why are the Benfica players so expensive to buy?
I know they are probably the biggest club in their country but the league is not the greatest and yet they cost a fortune.
Dias was a decent buy but he has matched his fee I would imagine by today's standards but I struggle with the rest.
Every >15M€ departure in the last ~15 years

João Félix
Enzo Fernandez
Darwin Núñez
Ruben Dias

Gonçalo Ramos
Ederson
Axel Witsel

Raul Jimenez
Nelson Semedo
Victor Lindelof
Renato Sanches
Angel Di Maria
Fabio Coentrão

Rodrigo
Nico Gaitán
Nemanja Matic
Enzo Perez
David Luiz
Lazar Markovic
Raul de Tomás
Luka Jovic
Ramires
Javi Garcia
André Gomes
Talisca
Pedrinho
Roman Yaremchuk
Jota
Jan Oblak
Bernardo Silva
Mitroglou
João Cancelo

I have highlighted a world-class top XI (4-3-3) for you
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
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Every >15M€ departure in the last ~15 years

João Félix
Enzo Fernandez
Darwin Núñez
Ruben Dias

Gonçalo Ramos
Ederson
Axel Witsel

Raul Jimenez
Nelson Semedo
Victor Lindelof
Renato Sanches
Angel Di Maria
Fabio Coentrão

Rodrigo
Nico Gaitán
Nemanja Matic
Enzo Perez
David Luiz
Lazar Markovic
Raul de Tomás
Luka Jovic
Ramires
Javi Garcia
André Gomes
Talisca
Pedrinho
Roman Yaremchuk
Jota
Jan Oblak
Bernardo Silva
Mitroglou
João Cancelo

I have highlighted a world-class top XI (4-3-3) for you
Matic should be in that 11 to be honest
 

José Mateus

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Matic should be in that 11 to be honest
Tbh his last 6 months before departing to Chelsea were the most impressive I've ever seen in the club

But I think Witsel, Enzo Fernandez and Bernardo had (or will have) a better international career
 

daba

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I've not seen him play live, but I still don't think any kids (outside of clearly generational ones like Mbappe etc) are worth 100m after one season of experience. The risk is just too high. A lot of players look great in Portugal that don't translate at all.
Tbf I agree on the 1 season of experience part (Joao will have about 1.5 seasons worth by summer), I think the ideal scenario is we hold off and sign him in summer 2025, using this summer to plug as many gaps as possible. However, I think come 2025 more teams may be looking for a CM and we’ll have more competition so if it’s a matter of getting him this summer or never I’d veer towards this summer.
 

Bondi77

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Every >15M€ departure in the last ~15 years

João Félix
Enzo Fernandez
Darwin Núñez
Ruben Dias

Gonçalo Ramos
Ederson
Axel Witsel

Raul Jimenez
Nelson Semedo
Victor Lindelof
Renato Sanches
Angel Di Maria
Fabio Coentrão

Rodrigo
Nico Gaitán
Nemanja Matic
Enzo Perez
David Luiz
Lazar Markovic
Raul de Tomás
Luka Jovic
Ramires
Javi Garcia
André Gomes
Talisca
Pedrinho
Roman Yaremchuk
Jota
Jan Oblak
Bernardo Silva
Mitroglou
João Cancelo

I have highlighted a world-class top XI (4-3-3) for you
There are a few top class players there but to call that 11 world class is pushing it a bit.
 

jesperjaap

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I know Benfica are tough negotiators but why do people think he is going to cost the full release clause? seen very little at all of him even though heard about him ages ago to make ay judgements or comparisons but would I pay a high fee for a top quality tenacious midfielder, yes. Bar the 6/7months of Casemeiro last season which made a world of difference we have been starved of a tenacious cm all the way back to Roy Keane, Carrick was good but he wasnt tenacious and I grew up on Robson/Ince/Keane and I miss that type of player. There were cries of delusion over the Rice transfer to Arsenal and personally though the fee was way too high I dont think Enzo has or will be a failure once they sort that side out.

Despite the emergence of Mainoo, I think our midfield is still a priority in terms of a major rebuild, we havent got the character, ability.balance or right signings there in a very log time and we have spent a fortune.

Personally I think we should be making 3/4 majoy signings that could cost £250-300m even and then realying on the new staff we are putting together to make a similar number of signings for about 10-20% of that cost....whilst actually raising a apretty similar fee from sales as there are a lot and several bigger ones we can make this summer.

Whether Neves really fits the bill of a major signing, I dont know, but I am not against a couple of big fees if he does. Yes we have made a lot of bad ones I feel but bar Pogba and to a much lesser degree Sancho and believe it or not Bissaka....none of our bigger transfers over the last decade even have filled me with any enthusiasm
 

DJ_21

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It’s risky spending 100m on any player but if you do and he succeeds and turns out to be a great signing then no one ever mentions the price. No one mentions how Madrid spent like 103m on Bellingham because it’s turned out to be a bargain… people talk about the 2 Chelsea signings because they haven’t lived up to expectations as of yet. If they put in the numbers and performances then they already pay back the money you spent on them… only the flops get talked about.
 

RuudTom83

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Benfica are taking the piss, a DF in his second season as a pro, that will be 100+ million please haha.
 

Dion

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It’s risky spending 100m on any player but if you do and he succeeds and turns out to be a great signing then no one ever mentions the price. No one mentions how Madrid spent like 103m on Bellingham because it’s turned out to be a bargain… people talk about the 2 Chelsea signings because they haven’t lived up to expectations as of yet. If they put in the numbers and performances then they already pay back the money you spent on them… only the flops get talked about.
The problem is Bellingham is vastly more experienced and Real Madrid have Kroos and Modric to put next to Bellingham, not to mention Tchouameni. You can't go into a Premier League season with 2 midfielders who have played less than 100 games combined, you just can't. And if you're spending a massive amount on him then that's your resources for that position gone.

We need someone who is much closer to his peak years to provide legs for Casemiro and experience for Mainoo.
 

aeh1991

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It's absolutely fair to consider signing a highly talented young player for big money. However, this summer and probably the next one, too, we have to sign 5-6 players and IF we are going to spend big money on one player, it should be spent on a position where we need a clear upgrade. Neves plays the exact position where we have our biggest talent and I doubt they can co-exist as long as we play with Bruno centrally. Sure it would hurt to see a potential generational talent go to another team, but it's just not the right timing, as he wouldn't solve our actual problems. It would be a different story if we didn't have Mainoo. I'd rather try getting Zubimendi + Kone/Thuram for the same money as Neves.
 

NoPace

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There are a few top class players there but to call that 11 world class is pushing it a bit.
Eh, play a 4-2-2-2 and this side is pretty rock solid:

-------------Darwin-Joao Felix----------
--------Di Maria-------Bernardo--------
--------------Matic-Witsel------------
Coentrao---Dias-Luiz-----Cancelo
------------------Ederson

Accomodates Joao Felix being an annoying but talented player who doesn't seem to fit most formations, the attacking mids are world-class, the DMs are giant, boring and reliable as hell and the fullbacks provide decent width. Good CBs and goalkeeper. That's like the definition of a Champions League quarter-finalist loser. Could also bring in Enzo Fernandez for a DM when you want more progression, though protecting the Luiz-Cancelo right side and tasking them with hitting accurate longer passes probably works better in practice.
 

Messier1994

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Very fair assessment. Obviously I don't have an issue with his aerial ability but doubts about physicality given the premier league... Experience as you point out is an issue.
Related, but on another note I was always surprised we signed Bruno, as I never felt United operated with a 10. In an alternate word for example, a 27 year old Casemiro with Mainoo and Neves either side of him would offer us more balance than any combination involving Bruno (as much as I love the player).

Also a question I have to ask regular viewers of J.Neves, what's his speed like? Because I also feel, in our current setup, Bruno drops deep too often as he seems faster than Casemiro and Mainoo. (In that sense Ole's recent comments on Fred ring true).
He is deceptively fast for sure, it’s a legitimate question in relation to a kid build like him. But he is not only quick for shorter distances, his speed is an asset when covering longer distances too.
 

Woziak

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yep.
Point is though, Enzo set Bdnfica's price for young midfield stars. No one will get Neves for less than his buy out clause.
I agree so let’s look elsewhere unless we sell £150m and add £250m for a £400m budget too much to do this summer to spend £100m+ on one player, there is logic in this that the wages will be low probably £6m per year so overall £26m per year on our books you could get £40m for Casemiro and then take his £16.5m per year off the wages. We still owe three installments of £13m but I’m guessing when you sell to Saudi you receive the payment as full up front payment ?
 

R0nald0

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The reality is no player from the Portuguese league (and so limited proven ability) should have a £100m price tag. The talent is plain to see but the quality of the opposition, in the main, is vastly inferior to the EPL. For £70m, I'd be open to this!
 
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I agree so let’s look elsewhere unless we sell £150m and add £250m for a £400m budget too much to do this summer to spend £100m+ on one player, there is logic in this that the wages will be low probably £6m per year so overall £26m per year on our books you could get £40m for Casemiro and then take his £16.5m per year off the wages. We still owe three installments of £13m but I’m guessing when you sell to Saudi you receive the payment as full up front payment ?
Saudis pay upfront, yes...
 

Rozay

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...
The reality is no player from the Portuguese league (and so limited proven ability) should have a £100m price tag. The talent is plain to see but the quality of the opposition, in the main, is vastly inferior to the EPL. For £70m, I'd be open to this!
Portuguese/Superliga players have consistently translated well in the PL tbh. You may he right, but I do also think that a player consistently playing well there, and in Europe, will likely translate their abilities over here.
 

criticalanalysis

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Tbh his last 6 months before departing to Chelsea were the most impressive I've ever seen in the club

But I think Witsel, Enzo Fernandez and Bernardo had (or will have) a better international career
Witsel and Enzo over Matic is mad.

Matic in the Belgium or Argentina international team is a certified upgrade at pretty much any time of his career post Benfica.

Enzo's rise is at younger age than Matic's and yes he's won the world cup with good performances but what he's achieved now doesn't compare and what he may do in the future is pure conjecture.
 

TheRedHearted

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Eh, play a 4-2-2-2 and this side is pretty rock solid:

-------------Darwin-Joao Felix----------
--------Di Maria-------Bernardo--------
--------------Matic-Witsel------------
Coentrao---Dias-Luiz-----Cancelo
------------------Ederson

Accomodates Joao Felix being an annoying but talented player who doesn't seem to fit most formations, the attacking mids are world-class, the DMs are giant, boring and reliable as hell and the fullbacks provide decent width. Good CBs and goalkeeper. That's like the definition of a Champions League quarter-finalist loser. Could also bring in Enzo Fernandez for a DM when you want more progression, though protecting the Luiz-Cancelo right side and tasking them with hitting accurate longer passes probably works better in practice.
In what universe is Darwin Nunez world class?
 

parmenio

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The reality is no player from the Portuguese league (and so limited proven ability) should have a £100m price tag. The talent is plain to see but the quality of the opposition, in the main, is vastly inferior to the EPL. For £70m, I'd be open to this!
That is absolute EPL superiority drivel. Like a lot of leagues most Portuguese players have a release clause. Joao is just starting out. He literally the world at his feet but he’s very young and just starting out. However Benfica are the biggest club in Portugal by far. The are very solid financially in recent years selling Enzo, Darwin and Goncalo. Joao has a well known release clause a club either pays it or not. Up to any buying club pay it or don’t. Benfica don’t want to sell. If Silva goes in the summer Joao won’t . Rui Costa has said they will sell 1 in the summer not both. Joao won’t rock the boat to get a move as Benfica is his team and he’s living the dream. When he does move will be with clubs blessing.
 
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jesperjaap

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Dont get the wouldnt pay £100m would pay £70m type comments. Its £30m difference for a 15year career and if the player reaches the potential the money would pretty much if not more be recouped in 5/6years.

The spend in a position shouldnt be a huge factor either, the cost or position player is in should be irrelevant...it is more a case of is this the right player, for the right position with the right character that progresses us.

The Rice and Grealish threads were very similar when we were linked. Rice was supposedly no better than McTominay and not worth half the money he would cost and Grealish wouldnt even get a game here....absolute nonsense at the time and very apparent now. We spent what was it £60/70m for a 30year old midfielder and appear to have got months out of it, Arsenal have got a player for the next decade barrign injuries.

Barely seen Neves to say whether he is that player, but personally I think we need three top signings minimum and at least that number in the gamble type of signings, so why would Neves not be one of them, I think RCB and DCM are probably the two areas with Varane and Casemeiros age and injury woes and fall from grace with the latter we can most improve and need to most.

For me there are only two £50m+ signings I would love to see and neither are going to happen. One would be Viniscus if Mbappe goes to Madrid and we offload Rashford to PSG, the other which I doubt many woudl agree with would be selling Fernandes, buying Eze to replace him. So a top top cb and cm maybe should be the big money and a lot of the potential options at CB seem to be in Portugal too
 

cpresc

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Jul 5, 2016
Messages
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Every >15M€ departure in the last ~15 years

João Félix
Enzo Fernandez
Darwin Núñez
Ruben Dias

Gonçalo Ramos
Ederson
Axel Witsel

Raul Jimenez
Nelson Semedo
Victor Lindelof
Renato Sanches
Angel Di Maria
Fabio Coentrão

Rodrigo
Nico Gaitán
Nemanja Matic
Enzo Perez
David Luiz
Lazar Markovic
Raul de Tomás
Luka Jovic
Ramires
Javi Garcia
André Gomes
Talisca
Pedrinho
Roman Yaremchuk
Jota
Jan Oblak
Bernardo Silva
Mitroglou
João Cancelo

I have highlighted a world-class top XI (4-3-3) for you

Jeez..

I hope we're talking to their Director of Football/Recruitment, this is a great list.
 

didz

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May 17, 2014
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Dont get the wouldnt pay £100m would pay £70m type comments. Its £30m difference for a 15year career and if the player reaches the potential the money would pretty much if not more be recouped in 5/6years.

The spend in a position shouldnt be a huge factor either, the cost or position player is in should be irrelevant...it is more a case of is this the right player, for the right position with the right character that progresses us.

The Rice and Grealish threads were very similar when we were linked. Rice was supposedly no better than McTominay and not worth half the money he would cost and Grealish wouldnt even get a game here....absolute nonsense at the time and very apparent now. We spent what was it £60/70m for a 30year old midfielder and appear to have got months out of it, Arsenal have got a player for the next decade barrign injuries.

Barely seen Neves to say whether he is that player, but personally I think we need three top signings minimum and at least that number in the gamble type of signings, so why would Neves not be one of them, I think RCB and DCM are probably the two areas with Varane and Casemeiros age and injury woes and fall from grace with the latter we can most improve and need to most.

For me there are only two £50m+ signings I would love to see and neither are going to happen. One would be Viniscus if Mbappe goes to Madrid and we offload Rashford to PSG, the other which I doubt many woudl agree with would be selling Fernandes, buying Eze to replace him. So a top top cb and cm maybe should be the big money and a lot of the potential options at CB seem to be in Portugal too
I don't think Rice and Grealish are fair comparisons. Both had plenty of experience and were approaching their peaks. Neves has had about a year and granted has looked very good, but for me personally I'd take a player who was a bit older and who we'd seen what they're like when they've struggled a bit over somebody who still has plenty of mistakes left to make.

I don't particularly care about us spending big on anybody in the 22-26 age range who's doing well and has a good number of games behind them. I just think that's a more stable way to build a squad than banking big on potential with players who have 'earned' the £100m tags as a teenager. A bit of balance between building fo today and tomorrow if you like.

Eze fits that (one of the best players to watch in the league too in my opinion), but I wouldn't be selling Bruno for him - they look like very complimentary players to me.
 

TheRedHearted

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Every >15M€ departure in the last ~15 years

João Félix
Enzo Fernandez
Darwin Núñez




I have highlighted a world-class top XI (4-3-3) for you
In what universe is Darwin Nunez world class?

I would also argue Enzo. Had a great cup, dazzled in Benfica but hasn’t in the premier league.

Joao Felix has never been world class, he has potential.
He is a world class donkey!
:lol::lol:
My confused friend, in a 4-2-2-2 the attacking mids are the pair behind the front 2 and ahead of the 2 deepest midfielders.
My confused friend you responded to a post about world class with a group of players that aren’t world class.
 

NoPace

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My confused friend you responded to a post about world class with a group of players that aren’t world class.
A world class side doesn't have to have 11 world class players in it. A chaotic, physically gifted very good striker doing lots of work like Nunez can easily slot into a world class side. I said the attacking mids and the sum of the parts of the side overall was world class, which I'd define as a top 6-7 or so side in the club game, which I think that team would be with the players all 2-3 seasons post-Benfica moves, and really the issue is Joao Felix being far more talented than he is productive, not Nunez, who is a handful. He's not winning any beauty contests out there, but he is an effective player.