You've argued twice now that he can just leave and work somewhere else if he wants to which is a stupid argument.
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Did you even read the article?
Jordan Henderson : voices player welfare fears | Rice: Obscene schedule of games
- Thread starter YzWayne
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And you are intentionally ignoring the part before where I said he can skip few games and training now and then if he wants too?
I am pretty sure that meeting is organised by the premier league, not Henderson himself. I don't see Henderson doing anything remotely serious except to complain to BBC.
This, most managers use older players sparingly hence Matic and Mata not playing many games. Ronaldo never complains , seems to want to play every match.
Being in highly privileged positions and extremely well paid doesn’t mean player welfare talks should be off the table.
Well said Jordan.
I don’t think people realise how on the edge of human physical fitness these guys operate on week in week out for pretty much 48 weeks of the year.
they are extremely well looked after and pampered if course but that’s because there bodies are operating on super super extreme levels. But because they earn £50,000 a week to £400,000 a week…..normal folks that lack any brain cells just think “deal with it”
it’s not that simple or safe.
Well said Jordan.
I don’t think people realise how on the edge of human physical fitness these guys operate on week in week out for pretty much 48 weeks of the year.
they are extremely well looked after and pampered if course but that’s because there bodies are operating on super super extreme levels. But because they earn £50,000 a week to £400,000 a week…..normal folks that lack any brain cells just think “deal with it”
it’s not that simple or safe.
Which also ignores the human aspects of him such as responsibility etc. You are treating footballers separate to the general population. Many people will need a day off but don’t because they feel a responsibility to their work. Perhaps he feels the same.
So what if it’s organised by the league? He’s going to put his case forward there. He doesn’t need to write a letter if he’s going to be given a platform to speak to them in person.
This is how it is in most walks of life, not that people don't have sympathy with footballers because they make zillion of pounds, but the fact that if you sign a contract you have to honour it, the organisations make you honour it, this is nothing new. What they earn is brought up because at least they're compensated well.
Covid has been around for 2 years now, so I don’t see how having a break or playing less games in December is going to solve the issue.
Less games in Dec/Jan just means more games in the coming months. Covid isn’t going to magically disappear early 2022.
Less games in Dec/Jan just means more games in the coming months. Covid isn’t going to magically disappear early 2022.
Is being a professional footballer a privileged position? I mean, most players have worked there way through academies from single digit age- gone out on loans to lower league clubs and trained every day just as long to earn the right to play in the PL. I’m not sure privilege comes into it.
Furthermore their earnings reflect their value as an asset of the club, and the short nature of there playing career.
Thirdly, don’t confuse Covid issues with player welfare. They are two different issues.
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Of course I am threating them differently because they are in much better position than general population, are you arguing that they are not? Let's not just talk about their weekly wages, let's talk about the fact that they can retire in their early 30s, that they don't have problems with hospital bills like average population, that just by being famous they can do many other things unlike general population, etc.
So again, what's the point of talking about it in the media then? It's quite obvious that he just wants sympathy, these are literally the main words from the interview:
“I don’t think people can appreciate how intense it is until you actually see it first-hand,
I'm not sure how valid the argument of 'he can skip a few games and training if he wants to' is? Players can't just decide to not play for a bit if they don't want to....its their job to play.
Completely missed the point of my post
also privilege doesn’t mean handed on a plate, I find myself in a relatively privileged position but I’ve worked my nuts off to get here too
I'm not having it to be honest. Millions of people would love to be in his position.
There are millions of people around the world who have to work punishing hours, and throughout the holidays, to be able to make ends meet. Yes, I'm talking about his wages, because I don't think that should be irrelevant.
PL players are paid a fortune partly because of all these TV deals. These TV deals are a big reason for all the demands placed on players' schedules. You can't have it both ways.
Plus, they only have to do this for 10-15 years tops, and their families are setup for life.
There are millions of people around the world who have to work punishing hours, and throughout the holidays, to be able to make ends meet. Yes, I'm talking about his wages, because I don't think that should be irrelevant.
PL players are paid a fortune partly because of all these TV deals. These TV deals are a big reason for all the demands placed on players' schedules. You can't have it both ways.
Plus, they only have to do this for 10-15 years tops, and their families are setup for life.
There are many examples of players missing games over the years without explanation. Remember when Evans and Rooney spend the night out in the festive period but Fergie didn't want to talk about that?
Pogba is in Dubai at the moment if I am not mistaken, and has Neymar's sister's birthday over yet?
Players can feel not ready to play and simply skip games, that's why clubs have squads and not just XI players, of course that's not professional but you are kidding yourself if you think that players miss games just because of injuries. I am pretty sure Henderson as Klopp's man can get always one or two games every few months from him without anyone knowing what's going on.
You're generalising every footballer as one person. Financially are they better off when they receive their weekly wage? Yes. Emotionally and Physically are they better off? That's not true. There will be some that are and some that are not and vice versa. There are some who suffer from emotional and physical trauma which means they can't retire early, that they do have hospital bill problems and who aren't famous.
To create discussion? To engage with the footballing community and see what their views are? To incite change?
Nope, I was developing the point. It was an additional thought to your post. I wasn’t challenging what you’d said.
Fully agree, only a matter of time before players start revolting and they're fully entitled to, they were used as puppets by the government for peoples entertainment during lockdown.
I am talking about best PL footballers and the problems they are facing. I am pretty sure Minamino doesn't have the same problem as Henderson simply because he is not certain starter in his team, and I am pretty sure Henderson doesn't care about him either. That's why I separated Bundeslige and La Liga in previous post, we are talking about Henderson's problem here.
If he wants to make a change he might consider watching what Rashford has done, and not ask for sympathy in interview.
Yeah that’s fine mate, I get that, and I’ve responded to your developing point on privilege
https://www.skysports.com/football/...captain-named-nhs-charities-together-champion
You're having a mare in this thread.
Henderson was actually named the UK's 6th most prolific philanthropist by The Times 2021 Rich list. It was measured by money raised/donated relative to personal wealth. Rashford was number 1 by a long way.
He's certainly not wrong, but at the same time I don't expect he's going to get a lot of sympathy. The general public who work just as hard for a pittance of what they earn and aren't paid if they are sick or injured.
The NHS staff who get beaten for trying to save people's lives and work hours just as long etc.
Yes footballers right now are running at their limits, but so are many around the country.
The NHS staff who get beaten for trying to save people's lives and work hours just as long etc.
Yes footballers right now are running at their limits, but so are many around the country.
Whilst I have some sympathy for the points he makes, its a squad game, especially around this time of the year.
Klopp can rotate if he wants, or Henderson can tell Klopp he's not physically ready to play in a game.
Not everyone has to play every game.
Klopp can rotate if he wants, or Henderson can tell Klopp he's not physically ready to play in a game.
Not everyone has to play every game.
I don't know why NHS staff are being used as an example of ordinary folks risking their lives to do their job. I'm sure if you ask those NHS staff doing their essential work they would say Henderson is making a good point and people working in non-essential industries should not be forced to risk their health and the health of those that they live with.
professional players suffers for entertainment? risking their lives for it? Come on people, everyone pushed themselves to excel in lives, not only them.
If ones body is not well and couldn’t play anymore game, they can easily sound off and sit on the bench for a few games. They are in the spotlight and easily can make their thoughts and concerns heard. Media picked it up and make stories like this.
compare that to an ordinary human working his ass off, despite some in dire health condition just to live another day. Can they make a outburst or a statement about their welfare in lives during busy festive season? No because none will care.
you guys can bash me all you want and I agree I may use the salary as a excuse. with that kind of salary.But with that amount of money, if you damage your body and not taking care of it then you only got yourself to blame. They can easily say no to one or a few games. Try asking those ordinaries to say no to a one shift.
If ones body is not well and couldn’t play anymore game, they can easily sound off and sit on the bench for a few games. They are in the spotlight and easily can make their thoughts and concerns heard. Media picked it up and make stories like this.
compare that to an ordinary human working his ass off, despite some in dire health condition just to live another day. Can they make a outburst or a statement about their welfare in lives during busy festive season? No because none will care.
you guys can bash me all you want and I agree I may use the salary as a excuse. with that kind of salary.But with that amount of money, if you damage your body and not taking care of it then you only got yourself to blame. They can easily say no to one or a few games. Try asking those ordinaries to say no to a one shift.
Is the problem too many games or is the problem a culture that wont allow you to miss games and take a break.
No. You lucky enough to have this skill, wanna be at the top and earn at the top, this is the cost. Football don't generate money from none-games. Go play non-league or amateur if you want to prioritize the health over money
I recognise the point that footballers are risking themselves for the sake of entertainment but he is only saying that because he is in a privileged position and earns millions. Even if he stops earning right now it won’t impact him whereas the general population has to go to work every single day to bring bread on the table. If footballers were earning peanuts and were dependent on their salary on weekly basis like other people then you would see them asking for more matches to be played regardless of the situation.
So when you earn a fortune and have this privilege because of fans making this sport so popular then you should have some sense of responsibility and gratitude. You just can’t isolate himself like it’s just a game because let me tell you football is not just a game for people they have put their money, time and effort for generations in this sport. In these hard times football has kept them going, giving them purpose, saving so many people from mental health. Also fans are also putting themselves at risk as much as the the players even more so and you know why? Because the love for their club means more than any other thing to them and players have as much responsiblity as others like healthcare workers to take care of people. They have to understand that it’s not just a game. Football is different to any other sport out there regards to passion. It’s the heart, soul and lifeline of the people and you have a duty towards the people who have given their all to this sport for generations and this is the only reason you earn millions and not peanuts.
Having said that I’m not asking them to play no matter what but if the environment is safe enough and protective measures are taken to make sure that they can play then I see him as a bit entitled.
So when you earn a fortune and have this privilege because of fans making this sport so popular then you should have some sense of responsibility and gratitude. You just can’t isolate himself like it’s just a game because let me tell you football is not just a game for people they have put their money, time and effort for generations in this sport. In these hard times football has kept them going, giving them purpose, saving so many people from mental health. Also fans are also putting themselves at risk as much as the the players even more so and you know why? Because the love for their club means more than any other thing to them and players have as much responsiblity as others like healthcare workers to take care of people. They have to understand that it’s not just a game. Football is different to any other sport out there regards to passion. It’s the heart, soul and lifeline of the people and you have a duty towards the people who have given their all to this sport for generations and this is the only reason you earn millions and not peanuts.
Having said that I’m not asking them to play no matter what but if the environment is safe enough and protective measures are taken to make sure that they can play then I see him as a bit entitled.
He makes a good point but really he won't have much sympathy from the general public. Already I have seen comments on his article, whether on twitter, bbc or other forums where the majority can be summarised by "you're rich, get on with it"
Needs more love, perfect description.Employee’s welfare secondary to employer’s need to generate income. Hold the front door. Won’t somebody think about these poor multi millionaires? Do me a favour.
Yeah he’s right, and it applies to all levels of football.
Both.
Increasing demands are being placed on players by the people who run football. And, in the context of the pandemic, by people outside football, including members of the UK government. Demands that weren't there when they agreed their current wages, wages which some seem to think means they aren't entitled to object to any of these ever-increasing demands being placed on them.
Meanwhile, the idea expressed by some in this thread that players can happily say "actually I'm not feeling at my best, I think I'll sit the next few games out" whenever they like without professional consequence is at odds with the reality of how football works. Players are expected to play when needed, often while already injured.
All of this seems to be underlined by some ingrained idea that footballers don't really deserve to earn the money they earn despite the mega-rich industry they're part of being built entirely off the back of their talent.
It must be so easy for the billionaire organisations who run football to ignore player welfare when the immediate response to someone raising the issue is for fans, without prompting, to leap to criticising them, comparing them to healthcare workers (who the majority of football fans also likely had an easier job than during pandemic, incidentally) for no apparent reason and using the money these mega-institutions deign to hand back to the talent driving their industry as a reason to ignore problems that directly impact the quality of the product fans pay to watch. And people wonder why those same institutions don't seem to respect the fans.
This is a dispute between the mega-rich capitalist institutions running football and the largely working-class people whose talents their ability to generate huge swathes of income is based on. It's not a dispute between players and people working normal jobs. Yet some fans seem determined to frame it as the latter, as if Henderson is calling for footballers to get the same level of sympathy as NHS nurses.
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Very much so.
So you think we should care less about players' welfare because they earn lots? What about lower league players?
They are obviously fortunate in the sense they can earn vast fortunes, but the crap about 'gratitude', 'have a duty' and 'more than a game' makes having a sensible discussion on this impossible.
Don't have a problem with his viewpoint although others may not have the luxury to demand such working conditions of their employers. Yes knowledge workers are incredibly lucky to be able to keep making money through this crisis right from the comfort of their homes without having to put themselves or their families at risk.
Other's don't have that luxury whether or not they provide an essential service. They need to earn to make ends meet so the choice really is death by covid or by hunger.
I personally would be much more supportive of Henderson's demands if he also promised to donate his salary during the lockdown weeks to a charity working to help families impacted by the pandemic.
Other's don't have that luxury whether or not they provide an essential service. They need to earn to make ends meet so the choice really is death by covid or by hunger.
I personally would be much more supportive of Henderson's demands if he also promised to donate his salary during the lockdown weeks to a charity working to help families impacted by the pandemic.
I think no matter how much you earn you are entitled to try to improve your current conditions if the current situation put your health at risk. It's got absolutely nothing to do with money. It's about being human.
Anyone putting money first should never complain about anything in their life at any point because there is always someone somewhere doing more far more work for far less money.
Anyone putting money first should never complain about anything in their life at any point because there is always someone somewhere doing more far more work for far less money.
But they are in the comfortable position of being able to suffer a slight 'professional consequence' without it having any bearing on their finances or lifestyle.
If you have Ronaldo-like drive to be the best, you make sacrifices along the way, including possibly to your long term health. It comes with the territory. Henderson seems that type. But moaning about the consequences of that mindset is rather pointless, when the rest of the world is currently having to make similar decisions on far finer margins.
If he wants to sign his next contract with a club which is prepared to let him play less, then I'm quite sure he'd find one.
If only there was a solution like putting more games on TV in the UK, the same teams wouldn't have to play 4 times in 9 days or whatever.
Think moths think. There must be a wya to get more than 4 games a week on TV.
Think moths think. There must be a wya to get more than 4 games a week on TV.
Struggle to see what the problem is.
The manager can protect the players over Xmas. In fact, if they did so, perhaps it would dilute the product and we may see less fixtures that way. They don't because they want to save their skins or go for glory.
We're talking about teams full of footballers that are mainly international players, and youth setups costing tens of millions.
Use your squad and stop complaining.
The manager can protect the players over Xmas. In fact, if they did so, perhaps it would dilute the product and we may see less fixtures that way. They don't because they want to save their skins or go for glory.
We're talking about teams full of footballers that are mainly international players, and youth setups costing tens of millions.
Use your squad and stop complaining.