Jose Fonte

sun_tzu said:
the FA is trying to make it 12 players (and you have to play for 3 years before turning 18 to qualify as homegrown - if that change comes in then we will struggle!)

As of now regulars in the first team squad
Johnson, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Carrick, Young, Lingard, Rooney, Rashford,

If the changes dont come in then we are still going to need some english players given that over the next few years certainly carrick, probably young and potentially rooney / lingard may not be here - throw jones in the mix and we struggle - if the FA do make it 12 homegrown players and change the homegrown requirements then we will be paying (even more) crazy premiums for english players like jones
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Cannot see that rule happening considering that pretty much all the top clubs won't be able to satisfy the requirements (or go near it) and it will further affect English teams performances in UCL, making an UCL win completely impossible.

Also, within the current rules, you have Schneiderlin as homegrown too, Januzaj, Pereira, Wilson and CBJ might return, TMF will be homegrown in the future etc etc. So not a problem at all to replace Rooney, Young, Carrick and Jones when the time comes.

If the new rules happen it will be a problem, but we will know about them a few years in advance, and anyway, it is quite unlikely that they are going to happen.
 
OohAahMartial said:
Just goes to show Duncan Castles isn't the mouthpiece of Mourinho like he likes to think of himself as.
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Why's that? Castles never said we would sign Fonte. We may well have been interested, but Southampton refused to sell. I think Castles has too much right about Mourinho for it to a fluke imo.
 
I'm happy enough that this isn't going to happen. We have Bailly, Blind and Smalling. I'd rather see us bringing through a youngster rather than buying a 32 year old who would have to be given games over them and isn't really that good anyway.
 
United Pro said:
Why's that? Castles never said we would sign Fonte. We may well have been interested, but Southampton refused to sell. I think Castles has too much right about Mourinho for it to a fluke imo.
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The whole idea of Jose wanting to buy an experienced CB, with Fonte as one of those options, came from him. As did Blind (our new vice captain) and Mata (starter for first game) leaving. He's got plenty wrong. Jose has always said he's happy with the squad.
 
OohAahMartial said:
The whole idea of Jose wanting to buy an experienced CB, with Fonte as one of those options, came from him. As did Blind (our new vice captain) and Mata (starter for first game) leaving. He's got plenty wrong. Jose has always said he's happy with the squad.
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But again like I mentioned before, he never said they would be sold, just that they were on the transfer list, along with Schweinsteiger and Rojo. I'd say that is very believable and we could still see Bastian and Rojo leave. Things change, and the fact that Mata and Blind played well in the first few games of the season, meant that Mourinho has given them a chance to prove themselves.
And in terms of Mata playing, I have a sneaky suspicion that he was starting in order to not lower his market price, as other clubs would see the situation and lower their bids thinking that Mata wasn't wanted. I mean look at Bastian's situation, where the club would be happy to sell him on a free.
 
OohAahMartial said:
The whole idea of Jose wanting to buy an experienced CB, with Fonte as one of those options, came from him. As did Blind (our new vice captain) and Mata (starter for first game) leaving. He's got plenty wrong. Jose has always said he's happy with the squad.
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But all that information may have been correct at the time of writing it. Things do change. Mata and Blind have probably impressed Jose during pre-season and our opening games.
 
Sounds like he might be off in January but maybe it depends on what happens with Van Dijk. I doubt they'd allow both CB's to leave in one window.

I think Fonte is the CB we should have signed from Southampton.
 
I'm not sure if it's down to the contract saga itself, but he's not been that great this season for Southampton. I had a quick look over the Southampton forum and some have him pegged as their 'third best CB', and others who disagree still say he's quite a distance behind van Dijk. There's no denying he'd offer some experience/seniority in the squad, but even if he was at his best level, he's still on a level of ability that is similar - if not slightly worse or better - than Blind/Jones/Rojo. Not really worth pursuing, in my opinion.

Jose loves an old CB though, and Egghead Castles has been banging on about how Mourinho went into the season with his most experienced CB having less than 150 PL caps(!!) So it could be likely. Bailly will be gone for a portion of January/February due to AFCON too...
 
I think Fonte is a player that Mourinho would like, and possibly go for in January. We could definitely find a use for him, experienced PL defender, Euro winner.
 
This ship has sailed. Once it didn't happen last summer, it shouldn't happen again. He's 33 or what?
 
Scholes, Giggs, Bastian, Valdes, Ibra and now Fonte

We do seem to like to keep/bring players who are well past their expiry date just because they happen to be the manager's mate
 
devilish said:
Scholes, Giggs, Bastian, Valdes, Ibra and now Fonte

We do seem to like to keep/bring players who are well past their expiry date just because they happen to be the manager's mate
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Wow.

Giggs you can argue only went one year too long. Scholes was class to the end. Ibrahimovic has like 12 goals already this season.

You really underrate the importance of experience. Part of the reason United are on a consistent rebuild now is because we dumped Giggs Evra Vidic Rio all in one go. Haven't had that leadership on the pitch ever since.

I'd welcome Fonte. Let Bailly work with him for a year and learn from him
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Wow.

Giggs you can argue only went one year too long. Scholes was class to the end. Ibrahimovic has like 12 goals already this season.

You really underrate the importance of experience. Part of the reason United are on a consistent rebuild now is because we dumped Giggs Evra Vidic Rio all in one go. Haven't had that leadership on the pitch ever since.

I'd welcome Fonte. Let Bailly work with him for a year and learn from him
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Experience is overrated and we should know about that more than anybody else. After all we’ve spent years taunting Hansen about his infamous ‘you can never win with kids’. How things have changed isn’t it.

So lets move to the apex of United’s football history ie the treble. We won the treble mostly with the team below.
Schmeichel-Gaz-Stam-Johnsen-Irwin-Beckham-Keane-Scholes-Giggs-Cole-Yorke

From that team only two were way beyond their 30s while Johnsen hit 30 that year. The most influential players in that team were Keane (28), Stam (27) and the class of 92 who were in their mid-20s. Jaap Stam was the undisputed leader at the back. He stepped up quickly from Dutch football to the EPL and was the best defender in the world that year. To think he did that he was as old as our own Smalling currently is now is amazing. In comparision Smalling is still a non league player in terms of maturity and football brain

Now what caused United’s decline? I can write a book about that. However the root of the problem lie in 1 simple fact ie we lost our aim. Were in the past winning and dominating the EPL was everything, somewhere along the lines we lost our way. That explains many things including why we kept SAF’s boys when they were way past their expiry date while talent like Drinkwater and Pogba had to leave to get games, why we replaced top quality people with SAF’s friends and family and why we found it so hard to boot the likes of Ando and Cleverley even though we knew that they will never make it. It also explain why Moyes was appointed despite United could get any manager they wanted. Why Fellaini was bought when it was evident he was not good enough and why Rooney was given a long term contract despite being in decline. Such nepotism is not restricted to British managers only. LVG was a master in it, adding players like Valdes and Bastian whose former clubs were just happy to get off their hands. Mou seem to following the same route by signing and had already committed to extend Ibra’s contract despite the fact that he’s 35 and had hardly set United on fire and we seem set to add another to the list ie a player not even Southampton seem to really want anymore.

Experienced is good when the player is still top quality + you’ve got a brilliant young side and you need an experienced head to keep them in line. We don’t have that quality team

To think we used to laugh at AC Milan once. At least they were getting old players because they couldn’t afford better. What is our excuse?
 
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Pointless if TFM isn't going on loan and Blind is going to be considered in midfield.
 
Scholesy said:
Smalling
Bailly
Rojo
Jones
Blind
TFM

No need to sign another
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Considering at this point Fonte is a better centre defender than all those bar Bailly then getting fonte on a year or 2 contract on the cheap wouldnt be a bad thing.

If he's available for a cheap price then he's worth it.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
Considering at this point Fonte is a better centre defender than all those bar Bailly then getting fonte on a year or 2 contract on the cheap wouldnt be a bad thing.

If he's available for a cheap price then he's worth it.
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I really don't think he is. He's been a mixed bag this season and he's not getting any younger. He's starting to decline. In late September Southampton conceded three penalties in three consecutive games and Fonte was at fault for two of those, one of them in the last minute of stoppage time which gave Arsenal an undeserved 2-1 win. If he did that at United they'd be calling for his head. He's not as good as he's been in the past and he's not United material.
 
devilish said:
Experience is overrated and we should know about that more than anybody else. After all we’ve spent years taunting Hansen about his infamous ‘you can never win with kids’. How things have changed isn’t it.

So lets move to the apex of United’s football history ie the treble. We won the treble mostly with the team below.
Schmeichel-Gaz-Stam-Johnsen-Irwin-Beckham-Keane-Scholes-Giggs-Cole-Yorke

From that team only two were way beyond their 30s while Johnsen hit 30 that year. The most influential players in that team were Keane (28), Stam (27) and the class of 92 who were in their mid-20s. Jaap Stam was the undisputed leader at the back. He stepped up quickly from Dutch football to the EPL and was the best defender in the world that year. To think he did that he was as old as our own Smalling currently is now is amazing. In comparision Smalling is still a non league player in terms of maturity and football brain

Now what caused United’s decline? I can write a book about that. However the root of the problem lie in 1 simple fact ie we lost our aim. Were in the past winning and dominating the EPL was everything, somewhere along the lines we lost our way. That explains many things including why we kept SAF’s boys when they were way past their expiry date while talent like Drinkwater and Pogba had to leave to get games, why we replaced top quality people with SAF’s friends and family and why we found it so hard to boot the likes of Ando and Cleverley even though we knew that they will never make it. It also explain why Moyes was appointed despite United could get any manager they wanted. Why Fellaini was bought when it was evident he was not good enough and why Rooney was given a long term contract despite being in decline. Such nepotism is not restricted to British managers only. LVG was a master in it, adding players like Valdes and Bastian whose former clubs were just happy to get off their hands. Mou seem to following the same route by signing and had already committed to extend Ibra’s contract despite the fact that he’s 35 and had hardly set United on fire and we seem set to add another to the list ie a player not even Southampton seem to really want anymore.

Experienced is good when the player is still top quality + you’ve got a brilliant young side and you need an experienced head to keep them in line. We don’t have that quality team

To think we used to laugh at AC Milan once. At least they were getting old players because they couldn’t afford better. What is our excuse?
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You're strengthening my point more than disproving it. Look at those players you named. Pretty much all of them were on pitch leaders. Stam Schmeichel Neville Keane.. And at that point Beckham, Giggs, Scholes etc had been in the first team for about 5/6 years.

When Hansen said you can't win anything with kids, there was plenty of experience in that team. A good blend of experience and youth.

Right now we have too many in between. Smalling and Jones have been here long enough for this not to be a discussion but neither has grabbed that brass ring, and neither is remotely worthy of being called a leader. Valencia at the back, as far as I'm aware, still hasn't bothered to learn English despite being here probably 12 years or so now. He's not a leader. Shaw is still clearly immature.

Imo we need that presence back there. A Vidic or Rio. Someone who'll organise things and keep the it calm. It'll help the whole team too knowing there's an experienced head back there. Fonte is far from the perfect signing but i personally think he will be a big help, even if it's just for 6 months
 
LawCharltonBest said:
You're strengthening my point more than disproving it. Look at those players you named. Pretty much all of them were on pitch leaders. Stam Schmeichel Neville Keane.. And at that point Beckham, Giggs, Scholes etc had been in the first team for about 5/6 years.

When Hansen said you can't win anything with kids, there was plenty of experience in that team. A good blend of experience and youth.

Right now we have too many in between. Smalling and Jones have been here long enough for this not to be a discussion but neither has grabbed that brass ring, and neither is remotely worthy of being called a leader. Valencia at the back, as far as I'm aware, still hasn't bothered to learn English despite being here probably 12 years or so now. He's not a leader. Shaw is still clearly immature.

Imo we need that presence back there. A Vidic or Rio. Someone who'll organise things and keep the it calm. It'll help the whole team too knowing there's an experienced head back there. Fonte is far from the perfect signing but i personally think he will be a big help, even if it's just for 6 months
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Actually no. Im highlighting the fact that you don't need age to be mature. You only have to have some brains and hunger to win stuff. Hence why Stam was a leader at age 27 and despite having no experience in a top league whatsoever. Smalling is at his same age and he's nowhere near the great man.

What we need is not yet another has been who'll come to OT for their final paycheck. What we need is top quality talent, people whose hungry for success and would do anything to win. Our current defense is filled with wimps and players with no talent. The only player whose got some fire in him is Bailly. He's more solid then all of our defenders put together and he's one of the youngest.
 
Loublaze said:
Yes he is
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He isn't. He might be in the future once he starts feeling some top quality players breathing at his neck and his guaranteed first team place is at stake but currently he's not. Hence why we need to add top quality players who'll challenge the ones we have to do better. Fonte will be yet another washed up defender whose bound to feck off in the near future.
 
Raoul said:
Of course he is. He was one of the best defenders in the league over various stretches over the past few years.
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Personally, I don't feel he can be the bedrock of a title winning defence unless he improves. As a raw athlete and defensive instinct, yes. But leadership and authority, which I feel are key skills back there, he lacks.
 
One of the best defenders in the premier league basically from their promotion. Not sure if we need him as we would have to offload some and none of them would deserve it
 
Even if Smalling isn't, his replacement needs to be definitely superior to him. Somebody like Fonte isn't.
 
Smalling and Bailly aren't a fit together, especially not when Smalling plays in the left channel, he struggles on the ball enough when he's on his strongest side.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Yes. That Chelsea game is clouding people's memory of how consistently dominant he has been over the past 2 years.
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Nothing to do with her Chelsea game. My judgement is from his whole time here, and to me he's never shown he can lead the defence. Next to an organiser like Blind or Rio, he's perfect. A brilliant athlete who can dominate nearly any striker.

However Bailly isn't that leader and neither is Smalling. So for me, one has to go (not be a starter). I feel Bailly's ceiling is higher. But of course signing that leader and having him play next to Smalling and rotating Bailly is an idea. I'd just rather him play next to Bailly.
 
Bubz27 said:
Nothing to do with her Chelsea game. My judgement is from his whole time here, and to me he's never shown he can lead the defence. Next to an organiser like Blind or Rio, he's perfect. A brilliant athlete who can dominate nearly any striker.

However Bailly isn't that leader and neither is Smalling. So for me, one has to go (not be a starter). I feel Bailly's ceiling is higher. But of course signing that leader and having him play next to Smalling and rotating Bailly is an idea. I'd just rather him play next to Bailly.
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:lol:
 
devilish said:
Actually no. Im highlighting the fact that you don't need age to be mature. You only have to have some brains and hunger to win stuff. Hence why Stam was a leader at age 27 and despite having no experience in a top league whatsoever. Smalling is at his same age and he's nowhere near the great man.

What we need is not yet another has been who'll come to OT for their final paycheck. What we need is top quality talent, people whose hungry for success and would do anything to win. Our current defense is filled with wimps and players with no talent. The only player whose got some fire in him is Bailly. He's more solid then all of our defenders put together and he's one of the youngest.
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I don't understand what you're doing. You're trying to disagree with me but basically repeating everything I've said. You're clearly not actually reading my posts, or just skimming them
 
Skills said:
:lol:
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What's funny? Blind is always talking back there. The issue he has is sometimes he's he one in the wrong position, maybe as he's been a CB for about 12 months. Doesn't stop him organising back there.

And I know he isn't good enough as a long term option there, barely a stop gap. But that's the point of this thread.
 
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