Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)

[Kapardin]

Jose was 100% at fault for the Sevilla game, but otherwise, a large portion of the blame does fall on some players considering the season as a whole. We have been wanting someone to call out this group for 3 years on some of their inconsistent performances.

Rashford's fits of petulance, Mata's ineffectiveness in many games, Pogba's sometimes can't-be-arsed body language, full-back problems etc etc. Im quite happy Jose is taking this route. No chance of downing tools as the players know that he has the club's backing.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If you want to get rid of the manager, you will need to get rid of most of the team, as a lot of these players have already seen off two manager or at least one. They will be the same whoever the manager is as they cannot take criticism and some are focused more on their image and outside activities rather than playing for Manchester United. Both sides of this are at fault, but the players get far too much protection.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Some of Jose defenders Must be paid to write this genius stuff.

They are all at fault, but I am sick to death of the old thing about not calling out players. Why? The manager get absolutely ripped to pieces in all quarters, yet these wimps cannot deal with a bit of criticisms. Well diddums. Man up for a change.

 

[NikSab]

Ferguson never called out individuals. Even with the David Beckham incident, he'd refuse to get sucked into the presses questions. Ferguson was famously overly defensive of his players publicly. And our players done some fecked up stuff. Keane and Cantona especially. Scholes refused to play in a cup game, and was quietly shunned by the gaffa, but we never found that out until Scholes told the story years after he retired. Not to mention all those goalkeepers who were painfully shit, and Ferguson didnt hang them out to dry. Not even Taibi.

You dont hang your players out to dry. That leads to ... well ... the same thing that happens to Mourinho at most of his club. He leaves because either the fans, the players or the board are sick of his shit and things on the field go tits up.

I can tell you about two famous instances where he called out his players after a win. One was at Aberdeen after winning the Scottish cup and one was at Anfield where Fergie didn't hide his disappointment about our performance .

 

[NK86]

For that you also need squad like the absolute top teams. No, our squad can't do both, play attacking as well as win big. I don't mean the squad is shit or players are incapable but the mentality of many is questionable while dealing with pressure situations. I don't have an issue with hoping for better football? Why would I? Why would anyone? It isn't debatable whether we play a fluid brand of football. We don't. I have issues with comments which imply it is all down to Mourinho and if we get Jardim or Sarri or whoever, it will magically transform, while keeping results consistent as top clubs.

Unless you have met them in person, you are no one to judge that. Classic case of eating out of Mourinho's palm. Are we talking about the same players who came back twice in the last couple of weeks to win? But yeah, it's their mentality which is the problem.

 

[eat_grass]

...
So basically he inherited a shit team and everyone except ddg is not worth keeping from the team he inherited.

Now either I don't know what defending someone means and we have all been doing it wrong or mourinho doesn't seem to.

Mourinho defended the players after the Sevilla loss? Have you somehow missed the presser?

Yes. He did. Post-match interview and press conference after Sevilla:

I cannot say that my players had something wrong in terms of their attitude and intention to play.

I don't think the intention was bad. I think the way we started was really good and really positive (first 10-15 minutes).

Reporter: Is the performance of your team something you can accept (given the disparity in squad price between United and Sevilla)?
Mourinho: Yes.

Reporter: Do you leave this competition with any regrets?
Mourinho: Regrets? No regrets. I did my best, the players did their best, we tried, we lost. And that's football.

Mind you, that's immediately after a very hard loss to take (some players were reportedly crying in the locker room), and facing questions from a combative and antagonistic media.

I've no doubt his mood soured prior to the Brighton press conference after re-watching the match and reading the sh*t the media was blasting him with.

He backed the players in the MUTV interview, too, but I can't find that on YouTube anymore.

 

[NK86]

I can tell you about two famous instances where he called out his players after a win. One was at Aberdeen after winning the Scottish cup and one was at Anfield where Fergie didn't hide his disappointment about our performance .

Yes, called out his "players" as a whole. The only time I remember him singling out individuals was when Nani lost the ball near the end of the match against Chelsea, they broke and scored the equaliser. Then they won the match in extra time. Apart from that, I don't recall him singling out individuals after poor or good performances. Maybe there are more such examples I may not be aware of but 2-3 over the course or 30 odd years in management is nothing. Mourinho does that everywhere he goes.

 

[NK86]

Yes. He did. Post-match interview and press conference after Sevilla:






Mind you, that's immediately after a very hard loss to take (some players were reportedly crying in the locker room), and facing questions from a combative and antagonistic media.

I've no doubt his mood soured prior to the Brighton press conference after re-watching the match and reading the sh*t the media was blasting him with.

He backed the players in the MUTV interview, too, but I can't find that on YouTube anymore.

Did you somehow miss the part where he said a lot of the Sevilla team will get into his team?

 

[tenpoless]

If you want to get rid of the manager, you will need to get rid of most of the team, as a lot of these players have already seen off two manager or at least one. They will be the same whoever the manager is as they cannot take criticism and some are focused more on their image and outside activities rather than playing for Manchester United. Both sides of this are at fault, but the players get far too much protection.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Treble]

They are all at fault, but I am sick to death of the old thing about not calling out players. Why? The manager get absolutely ripped to pieces in all quarters, yet these wimps cannot deal with a bit of criticisms. Well diddums. Man up for a change.

Jose had a whole season to evaluate the players and see who are up to the task. He could sell those who were seen as pussies and generate money to sign other players. Like Guardiola did. He was content with the squad though apart from not having Perisic (who would have dispalced Martial/Rashford). He signed Sanchez who is regarded as better than Perisic.

It's the job of the manager to create an atmosphere and a style of play which help the players thrive. When many players look lost, the buck stops with the manager. Most people are terrible psychologists. Most footballers are neither particularly brave per se or cowards per se. The atmosphere at the club and the manager make them act like having big balls or small balls. Do you think that most City players are brave? Most of them look like normal nice guys, they too would look lost when the atmosphere/style of play is bad.

 

[The Man Himself]

Unless you have met them in person, you are no one to judge that. Classic case of eating out of Mourinho's palm. Are we talking about the same players who came back twice in the last couple of weeks to win? But yeah, it's their mentality which is the problem.

By that logic unless you have personally met Mourinho and watched all training sessions you have no right to question him and decide how he trains team. Also going by your further points, then are we talking about same Mourinho who made important changes in key games and got his tactics spot on in 2 big games? Yes Mourinho is the root of all problems.

 

[NK86]

They are all at fault, but I am sick to death of the old thing about not calling out players. Why? The manager get absolutely ripped to pieces in all quarters, yet these wimps cannot deal with a bit of criticisms. Well diddums. Man up for a change.

Players are being torn apart and have been for a long time now. However when everyone is underperforming, you have to look at the common thing - which is the manager.

I refuse to believe our team is so poor they cannot play better while winning too.

 

[eat_grass]

Did you somehow miss the part where he said a lot of the Sevilla team will get into his team?

Where did he say that? It wasn't in the post-match press conference or BTSports post-match interview (or MUTV interview).

 

[Ish]

Just wait when main followers wake up and see your thread

Sneaky sneaky to start this thread when they’re all asleep

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Jose had a whole season to evaluate the players and see who are up to the task. He could sell those who were seen as pussies and generate money to sign other players. Like Guardiola did. He was content with the squad though apart from not having Perisic (who would have dispalced Martial/Rashford).

It's the job of the manager to create an atmosphere and a style of play which help the players thrive. When many players look lost, the buck stops with the manager. Most people are terrible psychologist. Most footballers are neither particularly brave per se or cowards per se. The atmosphere at the club and the manager make them act like having big balls or small balls. Do you think that most City players are brave? Most of them look like normal nice guys, they too would look lost when the atmosphere/style of is bad.

Then who do you have as the manager? I would still get rid of most of this team. Unfortunately nowadays too many have people whispering in their ears all the time about how great they are or agents touting them round from club to club whenever their is the slightest bump in their careers.

 

[Varun]

Where did he say that? It wasn't in the post-match press conference or BTSports post-match interview (or MUTV interview).

Do you think they didn't have any players who could play in my team? I cannot name them. If I name them their agents will jump with happiness and they will say: 'Tag, tag, price', this and that. In Sevilla, there are many players who would play in my team

..

 

[Treble]

Then who do you have as the manager? I would still get rid of most of this team. Unfortunately nowadays too many have people whispering in their ears all the time about how great they are or agents touting them round from club to club whenever their is the slightest bump in their careers.

Jose is finished. Look at his last 3 campaings in the CL. All ended with abject performances at home. Besides, next season will be his 3rd at the club. He has failed in the 3rd season at Chelsea and Real. He didn't have a 3rd season at Porto and Inter but one could see why his methods are supposed to work quickly and within a short period (2 years).

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Players are being torn apart and have been for a long time now. However when everyone is underperforming, you have to look at the common thing - which is the manager.

I refuse to believe our team is so poor they cannot play better while winning too.

Until we get a world class CB who can pass out from the back, world class not just good and sort out the wide area of the pitch. The fullbacks need upgrading and really we need a wide right forward who can run at defenders. Someone, either Jose or a new manager has to tell Sanchez that Martial or Rashford play on the left, you either have to settle for behind a striker or the right. Like it or lump it. Pogba needs to grow up, which I suspect Jose was alluding to last night.

We now are gunning for sacking our third manager. You say the manager is the common factor. Well so are some of the players.

 

[red devil whitey]

No wonder players dont look like they want to play for him, even putting them down after a quarter final win. Way to go to boost thier confidence Jose. Poor man management skills.

 

[eat_grass]

..

Where did he say it? I'd like to watch the interview.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Jose is finished. Look at his last 3 campaings in the CL. All ended with abject performances at home. Besides, next season will be his 3rd at the club. He has failed in the 3rd season at Chelsea and Real. He didn't have a 3rd season at Porto and Inter but one could see why his methods are supposed to work quickly and within a short period (2 years).

You may be right, but who replaces him and do you trust Ed Woodward to make the right choice with SAF and Sir Bobby in the background. I could just imagine them going for Carlo and it would be a big mistake and he also will not build for the future and his style of play according to Bayern fans is not great, funny now he is gone that Muller is back to somewhere near his best. Also didn't they say the players were under trained? They go for the lazy option instead of doing their research and thinking about the future. Jose was a lazy options and letting SAF pick his successor was as well, as it took the blame off the board to an extent.

 

[Hitchez]

Said this before but if Jose is not happy with the players after spending over 300m then he only has himself to blame.

I call bullshit anyway. We have the attacking players to play very good attacking football. You're not telling me that the likes of Lukaku, Mata, Martial, Sanchez, Rashford etc.. are incapable of playing attacking football.

 

[Varun]

Where did he say it? I'd like to watch the interview.

Post match presser for the FA cup tie.

 

[Treble]

You may be right, but who replaces him and do you trust Ed Woodward to make the right choice with SAF and Sir Bobby in the background. I could just imagine them go for Carlo and it would be a big mistake and he also will not build for the future and his style of play according to Bayern fans is not great, funny now he is gone that Muller is back to somewhere near his best. Also didn't they say the players were under trained?

I don't know. Monaco's manager? Enrique? Think Pochetino would be the best option. He hasn't won titles but he has taken Spurs to a much better level without much money.

 

[Santoryo]

Once again it has become everyone else's fault but Mourinho. He even has managed to convince some that the negative drab we play is on the players, not him because he went and shout in a post match interview how he trained them agressive attacking plays for a whole 2 days.

Throwing players under the bus and actually managing to convince fickle fans that they are shit and lack quality (which a blatant lie) and has started his petty little wars with his own players.

Just a month or so ago people were convince that we have one of the best squad in the league, especially after the acquisition of Sanchez and even Mourinho himself felt that he doesn't see the need to add more attacking players yet after getting shown up for the negative manager he is in his defeat against Sevilla, he started this narrative that players aren't good enough to spare his own skin while throwing players under the bus.

And people are swallowing his nonsenses like valiums.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't know. Monaco's manager? Enrique? Think Pochetino would be the best option. He hasn't won titles but he has taken Spurs to a much better level without much money.

If Poch can break his duck with the F.A. Cup then maybe. Problem there is I think he wants to go to the new stadium and then is looking towards Spain. United is turning into the graveyard for managers. Enrique would be interesting up against Pep. Is he just a poor imitation of Pep though? You would think our style would change. Jardim, he has done a good job, but most of the time it is in front of next to noone and he is used to dealing with younger prospect, which is a good thing, but how would he be with star players who think they know it all.

 

[el3mel]

If he had come and praised the players for such a performance and showed he's content with it, would everyone have been happy ?

 

[Stringer]

Not sure what he’s on about. Sadly last night’s performance wasn’t unusually poor compared to what we have seen over the last two seasons. I’m assuming he is mainly criticising the players for not following his instructions last night but I find it hard to believe that two days of attacking training is enough to offset what has been going on ever since he joined. That should have been identified and sorted far earlier. If he has been emphasising it for longer, then it doesn’t say much for his ability to coach, as even Pogba and Sanchez have deteriorated under his management.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Wasn't Jose just a few months ago, after signing Sanchez saying he only needed 2 or 3 players in the summer, and that he was not going to sign an attacker, and now all of a sudden only Lukaku, Matic and DDG are good enough and the rest is shit ?? Quite a change of opinion in such a short time.

I was in favor of him getting another season because the squad was starting to look good, but now he seems to want a rebuild, which I doubt he will be backed with, nor do I thnk it is needed. My concern about him was about our performances, and our lack of cohesion in any department, but still it was not such a huge concern that I wanted him gone though.

This just looks like another attempt to deflect the blame from himself, saying he is trying, but the players are just not good enough for him, and that is bs. The game itself was no different than the stuff we have been seeing for his whole tenure here, and normally he himself would have said that the win is all that matters, especially in poor conditions and off the back of a disappointing result midweek. But now he wants to believe that with just two days of training, we should be playing attacking football all of a sudden, when for nearly two seasons he has been training them to do the opposite ?? That is obviously not going to work, and he knows that.

Honestly, the whole thing could have been avoided, but it has just kept on escalating more and more. The loss against Sevilla was disappointing, but it was not the end of the season and we still have the FA cup and the league to play for. His comments have been bizzare, ever since the Sevilla result. He has basically blamed everything and everyone for the way things are, but has not taken a bit of responsibility himself. If he is trying to build a siege mentality, he is doing it wrong.

 

[Santoryo]

Sneaky sneaky to start this thread when they’re all asleep

 

[MS.08]

I think there is something fundamentally wrong with mourinho. His conduct with players, bad results , club and fans isn't proper. Not just at united but at Chelsea too. Remember that interview ...Nothing to say ? Who does that?

 

[Snowjoe]

If he had come and praised the players for such a performance and showed he's content with it, would everyone would have been happy ?

Nah the people who hate him will always find something.

 

[Stringer]

If he had come and praised the players for such a performance and showed he's content with it, would everyone would have been happy ?

You do realise there is a middle ground between what he said last night and just being content, don’t you?

 

[anant]

If people like OP believe that some other manager can get more out of these players, especially when things are going tough, then deluded and stupid are only words to describe such thinking. What Mourinho is doing is risky but he probably has drawn a line knowing he has club's backing and will replace such players if there is no improvement. Also I don't care about the so called progressive football if it doesn't bring trophies and with our current bunch even if some managers may get more pleasing on eye performance, it won't bring trophies. More likely we will be worse in table.
People should really keep their biases and hate towards Mourinho aside before commenting.

There is absolutely no way Mou will be even allowed to get rid of 6 players that started yesterday. Just think about it: 6 from yesterday and add to that Zlatan, Carrick, Fellaini, Blind, Darmian -that's 11 players you are talking about. He's not going to get budget to sign 8-10 players. It would be a disaster waiting to happen if he anyone leaves except the 5 that I mentioned earlier + Shaw. He'd then cry about lack of depth, Board not supporting him and the usual stuff from his 3rd season. So, not why he is throwing a good chunk of players under the bus when they're going to play for him next season.

 

[NK86]

By that logic unless you have personally met Mourinho and watched all training sessions you have no right to question him and decide how he trains team. Also going by your further points, then are we talking about same Mourinho who made important changes in key games and got his tactics spot on in 2 big games? Yes Mourinho is the root of all problems.

Yeah when we win, it's on Mourinho. When we play tumescent shite, it's the players. Bravo!

Also, I am not questioning Mourinho's mentality. You are doubting the players' mentality though based on sfa.

As for Mourinho's methods, his past teams and even his own books show the kind of football he plays. You make it sound like he is a newcomer or some manager playing open brilliant football before he came here and poor old Mourinho is being done in by the players being too stupid to understand how he wants them to play. Not once was did he come out with such statements earlier, but no magically players aren't good enough to follow simple instructions?

 

[el3mel]

You do realise there is a middle ground between what he said last night and praise, don’t you?

The reporter would ask him if he's happy with the player's reaction after the defeats now tell us that "middle ground" answer for such a question.

 

[eat_grass]

Post match presser for the FA cup tie.

Hmm, but I said he defended the players after the Sevilla loss, so your quote doesn't contradict what I said. You're pointing out that he called them out after the Brighton match, and I already explained why: the mentality some players displayed in that match, and their lack of response to the Sevilla loss. Isn't he saying "some Sevilla players showed the mentality and killer instinct some of my players lacked tonight"?

I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement, it's just we disagree whether Mourinho is its root cause or the players.

 

[Random Task]

They are all at fault, but I am sick to death of the old thing about not calling out players. Why? The manager get absolutely ripped to pieces in all quarters, yet these wimps cannot deal with a bit of criticisms. Well diddums. Man up for a change.

Absolutely.

 

[NK86]

Where did he say that? It wasn't in the post-match press conference or BTSports post-match interview (or MUTV interview).

In the pre-match conference against Brighton

 

[Stringer]

The reporter would ask him if he's happy with the player's reaction after the defeats now tell us that "middle ground" answer for such a question.

Seriously? Mourinho could have said it was okay and that there were obvious areas for improvement. He’s not compelled to give specific reasons to the media. The way he laid into Shaw for no reason whatsoever is an obvious example. Instead of saying it was a tactical decision to replace him, he decided to question his character and desire.

Do you believe Mourinho has been training the team to play attacking football?