Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37888868

He's apparently doing really well since being appointed. Keeping the club away from relegation and having them sit 3rd in the league at present (still unbeaten too).

Worthy of a thread imo, any of our Bundasliga fans know much about him?
 
Heard about him a while ago. Incredible stuff really, I hope they get a good league finish. It would be interesting to see more young managers given jobs like that, of course the problem is there's usually too much at stake to make it worthwhile.
 
Two things to take from this:

  • Too many managers are appointed from the bootroom and let's be honest - most footballers are total morons (at least in England) and wouldn't be anywhere near a position of power in any other walk of life if it wasn't for them being good at kicking a football.
  • There's a good case for potential "youth managers" who go down the coaching line from a young age.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Two things to take from this:

  • Too many managers are appointed from the bootroom and let's be honest - most footballers are total morons (at least in England) and wouldn't be anywhere near a position of power in any other walk of life if it wasn't for them being good at kicking a football.
  • There's a good case for potential "youth managers" who go down the coaching line from a young age.
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Morons with first hand experience of training and what it actually feels like having pressure and concentration in the game. They might not be the best tactically, but then again - you've got tactical coaches to help you with that.
It's like hiring a guy straight out of college rather than the guy who's been working with someone for 30-something years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of young management - but not if it's based on your argument
 
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GazTheLegend said:
Two things to take from this:

  • Too many managers are appointed from the bootroom and let's be honest - most footballers are total morons (at least in England) and wouldn't be anywhere near a position of power in any other walk of life if it wasn't for them being good at kicking a football.
  • There's a good case for potential "youth managers" who go down the coaching line from a young age.
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Its funny you say that because i went to school with a "total moron", who left with no qualifications and became a brickie. he now is a site manager for a large housing development.

To talk to him you'd "never have him in a position of power", but he is.

A bit like footballers really. get the right experience, apply yourself, etc.
 
Nagelsmann's an interesting prospect for sure. Was discussing him via PM just the other day, and it was quite amusing that more than half of Bayern's starting XI was either older than him, or of the same age. :lol:

Bit of a throwback, too - unlike a lot of contemporaries, he seems to be more than a head coach in his demeanor, and has the whole 'cult of personality' thing going for him - in terms of accruing support, and overall gravitas. But like a lot of contemporaries, he seems to subscribe (partially) to the Guardiola school of football - wrt. philosophical approach, and organisation with a healthy dose of aggression. And not just Pep, but Rangnick, Wenger and probably above everyone else - Thomas Tuchel:
Though Nagelsmann cites FC Bayern München coach Pep Guardiola as a source of inspiration, he acknowledges Borussia Dortmund boss Thomas Tuchel (r.) has had the biggest influence on him. While Augsburg reserve team coach during the 2007/08 season, Tuchel gave Nagelsmann the task of scouting upcoming opponents. "That was my way into coaching," Nagelsmann explained. "I learned a lot from him."
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https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-prodigy-thomas-tuchel-rejected-bayern-munich

http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-julian...ocial-maturity-that-belies-his-age/a-36205232

Could very well turn out to be one of the (if not the) most exciting young German managers after Klopp and Tuchel - from when they were at Mainz, and subsequently Dortmund.
 
nokillingmoths said:
Its funny you say that because i went to school with a "total moron", who left with no qualifications and became a brickie. he now is a site manager for a large housing development.

To talk to him you'd "never have him in a position of power", but he is.

A bit like footballers really. get the right experience, apply yourself, etc.
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Yeah, a law degree isn't exactly going to do you much good in football. It's almost as if you need completely different knowledge and experience.
 
nokillingmoths said:
Its funny you say that because i went to school with a "total moron", who left with no qualifications and became a brickie. he now is a site manager for a large housing development.
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Yes but does that mean that every single labourer that works under your friend suddenly becomes qualified to become a site manager? Because that's how it seems to work in football.

acnumber9 said:
Yeah, a law degree isn't exactly going to do you much good in football. It's almost as if you need completely different knowledge and experience.
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So what IS relevant in football? Coaching, motivational ability, tactics and management. And I believe Arsene Wenger took a degree in economics and has a masters degree in Engineering!!!?

Edit: to add, Wengers engineering degree obviously has little relevance to football but it does prove that he has a brain.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Two things to take from this:

  • Too many managers are appointed from the bootroom and let's be honest - most footballers are total morons (at least in England) and wouldn't be anywhere near a position of power in any other walk of life if it wasn't for them being good at kicking a football.
  • There's a good case for potential "youth managers" who go down the coaching line from a young age.
Click to expand...

The lot of the players in the German national team have A-levels or ended school shortly before that because of their starting career. And they do not seem to be the only country in which it is like this.

I am not so sure you are right as it is not only being good at kicking or having talent is the main factor for having a professional footballing career but mentality, drive, being able to focus on the career instead of living the usual teenager life etc., too. I think some of this aspects would be helpful in other careers, too - even if they would not make you as rich as football can.
 
If he's not doing so well next season and getting fired, hype's gone. What i want to say is let's wait a bit more will you? I've seen a lot managers over the years who couldn't maintain their success after they lost some big players, sure managers were older, but age is just a number. Everyone's younger because of the system these days...

The game against Bayern could have been easily lost, Bayern hit the woodwork two times, was lucky in the end.
 
He's a good tactician, i believe that you can be very good at man-management, but if what you say doesn't make sense, the players won't respect you, especially if you're that young. I haven't seen alot of Hoffenheim, but he seems to change formations frequently. Against Hertha he changed his approach after their goal (from three at the back to four) and Dardai didn't find an answer (:(). Not revolutionary, i guess, but he knows his stuff.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Yes but does that mean that every single labourer that works under your friend suddenly becomes qualified to become a site manager? Because that's how it seems to work in football.



So what IS relevant in football? Coaching, motivational ability, tactics and management. And I believe Arsene Wenger took a degree in economics and has a masters degree in Engineering!!!?

Edit: to add, Wengers engineering degree obviously has little relevance to football but it does prove that he has a brain.
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What point do you think that is proving? Wenger isn't a good manager because he has an economics degree.
 
Sassy Colin said:
So he had a birthday in the middle of the day, did he? The time difference isn't that great, he's only in Germany.
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In my defence, the BBC article had the age up wrong initially!
 
Theafonis said:
Vilas-Boas was a fresh, young manager at one point but things didn't seem to workout for him.
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Sassy Colin said:
He figured without the British press. Gravelly voices don't go down too well in these parts.
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I never thought he was that ambitious either. Just happy to be wherever he was. His managerial jobs since seem to show that too - currently managing a team in China.
 
Do people still believe in the idea of the super coach? Surely it's more of a case of being at the right place at the right time. The whole tactics and philosophy thing is pretty much worth less than the newspaper it's eulogised in. Paul Le Guen, Juande Ramos, Rijkaard, AVB and Brenton. They all prove to be useless in the end. The one's that don't have bought some really good players, though probably aren't greatly responsible for those signings.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Two things to take from this:

  • Too many managers are appointed from the bootroom and let's be honest - most footballers are total morons (at least in England) and wouldn't be anywhere near a position of power in any other walk of life if it wasn't for them being good at kicking a football.
  • There's a good case for potential "youth managers" who go down the coaching line from a young age.
Click to expand...


I generally agree here. The FM-era kids are now mostly late 20's to early 30's, I wouldn't be surprised to see management positions filled with people as their highest level of actually playing being the Red Lion on a Sunday soon. I mean the AVB thing might have delayed it a bit at the top, but lower leagues....possibly already happened I dunno.

I definitely think any apointments below the age of 28 might be pushing it too much though, purely for the sakes "youngest" shit publicity. You need those years of actually coaching players who think they are above you just because they are players and how to handle it, forget actually how handle coaching in general. You've got 30+ years ahead of you too, why waste that by killing your reputation too by chasing a "youngest" tag too.
 
redmeister said:
Do people still believe in the idea of the super coach? Surely it's more of a case of being at the right place at the right time. The whole tactics and philosophy thing is pretty much worth less than the newspaper it's eulogised in. Paul Le Guen, Juande Ramos, Rijkaard, AVB and Brenton. They all prove to be useless in the end. The one's that don't have bought some really good players, though probably aren't greatly responsible for those signings.
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I do not.
 
redmeister said:
Do people still believe in the idea of the super coach? Surely it's more of a case of being at the right place at the right time. The whole tactics and philosophy thing is pretty much worth less than the newspaper it's eulogised in. Paul Le Guen, Juande Ramos, Rijkaard, AVB and Brenton. They all prove to be useless in the end. The one's that don't have bought some really good players, though probably aren't greatly responsible for those signings.
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:wenger:
 
ThomasEmil said:
Morons with first hand experience of training and what it actually feels like having pressure and concentration in the game. They might not be the best tactically, but then again - you've got tactical coaches to help you with that.
It's like hiring a guy straight out of college rather than the guy who's been working with someone for 30-something years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of young management - but not if it's based on your argument
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Sometimes the guy straight out of college is better than those who have been around for a long time. Look at the founders of some of the biggest companies in the world and you'll realise that. The experienced old farts who are stuck in their ways aren't going to be innovative or necessarily connect with the younger generation. This is relevant in football just as it is in the tech industry. There's absolutely no reason a 29 year old coach can;t be more successful than fossils who move along the managerial conveyor belt because their tired and trusted methods are outdated.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
Sometimes the guy straight out of college is better than those who have been around for a long time. Look at the founders of some of the biggest companies in the world and you'll realise that. The experienced old farts who are stuck in their ways aren't going to be innovative or necessarily connect with the younger generation. This is relevant in football just as it is in the tech industry. There's absolutely no reason a 29 year old coach can;t be more successful than fossils who move along the managerial conveyor belt because their tired and trusted methods are outdated.
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Did you read my whole post?
 
acnumber9 said:
What point do you think that is proving? Wenger isn't a good manager because he has an economics degree.
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I'd like to think it's patently obvious the point I'm making and you're being needlessly obtuse!!!!
Somehow you seem to be arguing that intelligence is not beneficial to a person in management? :wenger:
 
He seems to be really flexible too. If his heroes are Cruyff and Guardiola, than his style of play right now is quite different.

Right now Hoffenheim plays a 3-5-2: Baumann - Sule, Vogt, Hubner - Kadebarek, Rudy, Demirbay, Amiri, Toljan - Wagner, Kramaric

Wagner is an old fashioned CF. But i guess his ideal style of play would be based on Tiki-Taka but the circumstances at Hoffenheim doesnt allow him to do so.

Sule looks fantastic and is the best CB talent alongside Tah in Germany. Amiri looks promising too! Baumann, Vogt, Rudy, Demirbay, Toljan & Kramaric are some pretty decent Bundesliga players.

His team also performed really good against the bigger Bundesliga Clubs this season: 2:2 Leipzig, 0:0 Wolfsburg, 2:1 Schalke, 3:0 Leverkusen, 1:1 Bayern!
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'd like to think it's patently obvious the point I'm making and you're being needlessly obtuse!!!!
Somehow you seem to be arguing that intelligence is not beneficial to a person in management? :wenger:
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I'm not. I'm saying being a football manager requires different skills than being a manager in another field. Bill Gates and Stephen Hawkings wouldn't make particularly good football managers. Because they have no footballing experience. And that is more important than being intelligent. Footballers being morons is also a bit of a stereotype and directly linked to the fact it's a working class sport that required them to focus more on playing football than studying. That doesn't effect their ability to be football managers.
 
redmeister said:
Do people still believe in the idea of the super coach? Surely it's more of a case of being at the right place at the right time. The whole tactics and philosophy thing is pretty much worth less than the newspaper it's eulogised in. Paul Le Guen, Juande Ramos, Rijkaard, AVB and Brenton. They all prove to be useless in the end. The one's that don't have bought some really good players, though probably aren't greatly responsible for those signings.
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There is some truth in this. I wonder if the manager at say, Southampton for instance has any noticeable affect on performances. They were good under Adkins, good under Poch, good under Koeman and now they're good Puel. They're just a well run club. On the other side of that there's us who are useless no matter who we appoint because we constantly make bad decisions as a club. Plus there's Ranieri who's achieved little of note throughout his whole career then out of nowhere won a prem title. Having said that there are the likes of Klopp who have come in and clearly made improvements to the team.
 
He took over when they were 17th last season (after ~21 matches) and saved them. The squad is hardly exciting and shouldn't be in the top half of the table. His impact is extremely impressive.
 
redmeister said:
Do people still believe in the idea of the super coach? Surely it's more of a case of being at the right place at the right time. The whole tactics and philosophy thing is pretty much worth less than the newspaper it's eulogised in. Paul Le Guen, Juande Ramos, Rijkaard, AVB and Brenton. They all prove to be useless in the end. The one's that don't have bought some really good players, though probably aren't greatly responsible for those signings.
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Le Guen is a weird example, he has never been rated and never been good either.
 
As stated above, on paper, the team doesn't really look like it should be CL qualification quality, so I do think he's doing an amazing job there. I don't think its a one off for him too, as they were pretty sure fire to go down last season, and when he came in he had an instant impact and they survived reasonably comfortably.
 
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41248175


Nagelsmann to Bayern is a 'done deal' - Honigstein

"There is the assumption right now that Ancelotti is probably not going to see out his contract beyond the summer," says Honigstein.

He believes the club will move for Nagelsmann this summer to avoid missing out on another opportunity to bring in a young German coach, adding: "I think it’s happening for 2018 and I think they see him as a once-in-a-generation talent of management. To not take him would be the sort of mistake they made when they took Klinsmann instead of Jurgen Klopp in 2008."
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