Bony done well for Swansea in his first season. 25 goals for them.
Jurriën Timber | Arsenal player
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I guess I meant in recent years as the gap in quality has grown between the 2 leagues since the early 2000s.
He may turn out to be a great signing but I'm a bit concerned by his height and how quickly he can adjust to the Premier League.
Wijnaldum was an Eredivise success.
Eriksen too.
Quality is quality.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I think with a lot of the Eridivisie flops it was just poor scouting. If you look past the numbers they put up, nothing about players like Memphis or Bergwijn in terms of their qualities as players would really scream out big success to me. Or you look at someone like Davinson Sanchez who only had one year at Ajax and wasn't taught the finer points of defending, technique, or tactics coming through the Ajax system. Its not a surprise that he turned out to be kind of brainless and weak on the ball.
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You’re right, but there have been rumours that he’s seen as a 6 long term, and he does seem to have the ball retention and mobility to make it possible and not just the typical lazy “what if lindelof was a DM” stuff. My larger point is that if we sign Timber, his role this season with us may not be his long term role here, and it might be about putting out a fire at whatever position we’re short at, whether that’s RB, LCB, RCB or DM.
Wijnaldum, Veltman, Graziano Pelle and Pieters (I think) were good in their first season.
Don't know if Fer, Van Aanholt, Janmaat and Krul hit the ground running.
The answer is plenty. The league is weaker and the players are cheap for English teams, which is why they take a lot of cheap punts.
The succes rate of tranfers will obviously be lower.
Veltman is one of the few starters from the ED in the league off the top of my head. If you're making this 'ED signings are crap' argument and are omitting him you' clearly haven't thought about it or you're being dishonest.
Don't know if Fer, Van Aanholt, Janmaat and Krul hit the ground running.
The answer is plenty. The league is weaker and the players are cheap for English teams, which is why they take a lot of cheap punts.
The succes rate of tranfers will obviously be lower.
Veltman is one of the few starters from the ED in the league off the top of my head. If you're making this 'ED signings are crap' argument and are omitting him you' clearly haven't thought about it or you're being dishonest.
Krul never played ED. Pieters and Veltman werent even really highly rated here.
The reality is in the end you never know. There are no guarantees. Timber might flop, but could also be a success. I am still convinced Donny can be a success in the PL, but he is what they call on this forum a 'system player'. I am convinced that goes for 90% or even more of the players, especially if they are not physical beasts.
I remember back in the days even Veron was seen as a flop and he was an absolutely cracking player. But players need to be used correctly to utilize their qualities in maximum fashion. More often than not this doesn't happen, especially in a league where most teams have too much money to spend. They don't scout players based on how the team plays and what qualities are required for a certain position. They just buy a player doing well in that position at another club, regardless of the tactics used by that team and specific qualities shown by that player. Thats why there are so many 'PL flops'. This is not because the PL is so great, but because the scouting in PL clubs is nearly non-existant.
Not to mention for Sanchez, in the Europa League final, Mourinho literally targeted him... Also looking at Ajax's 18/19 team, De Jong and De Ligt were obvious stars. Van de Beek was hyped, but also clearly as a byproduct of the system rather than him "running" the system.
Blind for example showed his quality in the prem right away. Some issues with physicality naturally as Blind is weak and slow, but his main attributes were still pretty clear and transitioned fine.
Timber is one where his attributes are pretty clear, and he plays a huge part for Ajax. He's not just another player in the team, he's one of the keys to the team. His pace, strength, on ball ability to move with it through the lines, and passing it forward are all important.
Sure, but that wasn't the discussion. It was about which ED player did well in their first season in the EPL. It's disingenuous to ignore those 2 and only focus on the high profile flops like a poster naming Memphis and Bergwijn and such to illustrate his point. They're literally the only Dutch starters in the EPL. (edit: oops forgot about Virgil, but he didn't come directly from the ED)
Didn't know that about Krul. Agree with the rest.
It feels like this could be close, I dont want to blow my own trumpet but I am liking the potential speed of transfers compared to when Ed would dither over a few quid and elongate over an entire summer.
Always feel like the Memphis one is very harsh. He was really young and is a free-spirited, improvisational player who was strait-jacketed under LVG. Even Di Maria regressed before our eyes under him. He left United and was was absolutely brilliant for Lyon before winding up with another Dutchman who didn't play to his strenghts.
This is quite a post. Unless you are John Murtough I don't really know what to make of it.
Rumbled, knew he'd be on the caf
Did you mean to say "count my chickens before they've hatched' because that's definitely what you're doing here? You get to congratulate yourself (or the recruitment team if you're feeling modest) when we've actually signed someone.
Let's see, first it needs to be official
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This cannot be true as the United Stand have stated he will be our first signing
I think it’s actually very appealing to be interested in him seeing he can play in various positions. Meaning he will be tactically adaptable.
That’s lacking in this squad. You put any of our guys in other than their preferred position we get zilch out of them. I personally believe him to be more of a DM than any other.
This lads should be a priority over any signing. I’ve not been invested in a signing since Ronaldinho and see how that wasn’t one to lose. He seem the type to build a team around.
A 20 year old centre back (and as per reports, potential utility man) from Ajax for £20-30m is the type of player to build a team around? I find it strange you've put this signing on the same pedestal as us going for (and failing to sign) Ronaldinho back in 2003. Am I missing something?
Any peoples out there that watch the Eredivisie and Ajax in particular have any opinions on retraining Timber as a DM?
Definitely has potential there, maybe in PL even more in that position than as a CB. However he's not played there often so far.
With the other Dutchman you mean Koeman? If there's one manager who's played Memphis to his strenghts it's Koeman. Memphis evolved when Koeman was NT coach and made him his main man. In his Man Utd days Memphis just wasn't ready yet. He's developed a lot since but even he's just the type of player for a 2nd grade club in my opinion. I think at this moment in his carreer he's good enough to handle himself in any league, but he just lacks that little bit of quality to be able to carry a true top team.
He could do well in a top team though, but more as a supporting player rather than a player carrying the team. For example the way how Benzema played as a supporting player to Ronaldo most of the time. If Memphis can accept this kind of role and accept he's not the main guy in his teams offense and also sometimes have to come from the bench then I do think he can be a very useful player for any team (as long as the tactics suit him of course).
You see just a CB. I see a player more than just a utility CB. What gives you
the right to question how I process things??I wanted Ronaldinho here so we can build a forward line around him. At the time that’s the direction I wanted us as a club to head. Now I see Timber as the guy to build the back 6 around.
Tell me where am getting it wrong?
Honestly, as nice as it would be to have someone with Timber's profile, this transfer hasn't passed the sniff test for me from the start.
- While 30-40mn is value for a player of his promise, we have a finite budget and it seems like too big a proportion to pay for someone who his biggest fans on here seem to think won't even play in the position he plays week in week out for his club.
- Timber is right footed but we've been looking for a left footer for a long time to balance that back line.
- The aerial weakness issue keeps getting glossed over/pooh pooh'd by people but it's just a fact in Timber's case regardless of whether Steve Bruce or Cannavarro or whatever sub 6ft player from the past you can think of was good at heading.
Very few players are good enough to build a team around. You could probably count on one hand the number of centre backs in the last ten years that this would apply to. A relatively unproven, middle shelf centre back from the Dutch league is absolutely not a good example of this.You see just a CB. I see a player more than just a utility CB. What gives you
I wanted Ronaldinho here so we can build a forward line around him. At the time that’s the direction I wanted us as a club to head. Now I see Timber as the guy to build the back 6 around.
Tell me where am getting it wrong?
I understand your point.. What will make him a proven player? He plays for the best team in the league and a leader within the team. Top players can come from any league, Red Star Belgrade produced some of the best players I’ve seen in the 90s and they were from a tinpot league. Talent and a manager to deem him worthy is all he needs.
We built a team around Fernandes, how proven was he before he got here? We a multitude of teams across the world and each will tell you the team is built around a player or two. When you add them all up across Europe, it stops being a few.
I’ll be very very surprised if he isn’t a United player when pre season starts. Seems a very obvious signing to do especially the positions he can play and what the team probably exactly needs
What exactly does this mean? How do you “build a team around” a centre back? What does that even entail?
Ok my thought process. You really want a peek in my head. Each team plays in two phases, defensive and attacking. In the attacking phase right now Bruno seem to be the leader whilst in the defensive phase we are lacking. That’s where a leader comes in.
I tend to prefer a DM as the defensive leader not a CB. I always saw Carrick as the leader of that back line, not Vidic or Ferdinand due to what the role entails.
This lad might not be everyone’s cuppa but he is mine. Every time I watch him I believe him to develop into a super DM.
That’s hardly building a team around him. Most top teams have leaders all over the pitch.
Each team plays in two phases, defensive and attacking. In the attacking phase right now Bruno seem to be the leader whilst in the defensive phase we are lacking. That’s where a leader comes in.
I tend to prefer a DM as the defensive leader not a CB. I always saw Carrick as the leader of that back line, not Vidic or Ferdinand due to what the role entails.
This lad might not be everyone’s cuppa but he is mine. Every time I watch him I believe him to develop into a super DM.
I completely disagree with you here on both highlighted but cant articulate my counter argument.
Especially the second bit, it’s against everything I believe a team should be. I can be wrong all this years but it’s not the way I see team set ups.
Ten Hag will most likely want to build a young exciting team with a few older players who bring leadership. If he’s going to be our manager for the next 4/5 years then building a young team who are going to be playing together for years will be a good thing to do.
Can he play as a RB?
I dont think I'm counting any chickens before they have hatched, I am speculating. Ed has gone who I believe was toxic for this club and one of the biggest reasons why things have been so messed up over the last 15 years. End of an era, I am an optimist, hardly a crime and worth your judgement.
Touché, I really don't know what to make of your passive reply.
Exactly, thats why I am hoping for Malacia and Timber. Don't know about DM. I was really hoping for Tchouameni but it seems he goes to Real Madrid.
Nice data-driven scout report which highlights Timber’s strengths and weaknesses here.
https://marclamberts.medium.com/jurrien-timber-scout-report-ba0a66e4fefe
https://marclamberts.medium.com/jurrien-timber-scout-report-ba0a66e4fefe
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