Jurriën Timber

Fortitude

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Van Gaal is riddled with hate and bitterness. Full of hatefulness
Amount of people saying this or something similar: we fecked him over, and what goes around comes around. It's his right to feel however he wants.
 

phelans shorts

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Gaz. Is a Mewling Quim.
He doesn't have to put his job in second place, with the upcoming world cup and squad depth he has the power to influence players.

He is literally starting 2 players that don't start at their club over other top players that do start at their club. What he's saying is just rubbish, if he likes you enough you are exempt from this "rule" and that's it.

In this case he doesnt like Timber enough or maybe rather United.
So he’s exactly the same as every manager in every industry in the entire world then
 

Escobar

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Amount of people saying this or something similar: we fecked him over, and what goes around comes around. It's his right to feel however he wants.
Wel, whatever it is in the end: if we cant attract a player like Timber, it shows how bad our situation currently is
 

Fortitude

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Wel, whatever it is in the end: if we cant attract a player like Timber, it shows how bad our situation currently is
LVG is a huge, powerful figure in Holland, Timber is nothing compared to him and would be taking a huge risk going against such a person from his feeble position. LVG is also really petty, which is a problem in itself; even if Timber came and was a fixture for us, I'm not sure LVG would relent if it makes him look bad, and the fall guy would still be Timber.

The next World Cup is 4-years after this, which is an age, especially for a young, eager player, so with everything considered, you'd really need an intermediary massaging LVG's ego and working a better angle for the transfer so nobody has their nose put out of joint (hard for LVG's conk), otherwise it's a massive obstacle I can understand why Timber would want no part of.

People questioning his ambition would do well to consider the position he's now in, and it's a rare player who goes up against a manager whose standing outstrips theirs by miles - it's not even going up against your boss, it's going up against your bosses, bosses boss - the one no one dares look up at when he randomly turns up at the office.
 

Suv666

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Is Timber really going to ruin his chances of moving to Utd because of Van Gaal's threats?
Must he really confident of his abilities. It may happen he has a nightmare season and no one wants him.
 

Daslogisch

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This is false. There is Danjuma who's had the best season of all pir attackers also there. Lang, Gakpo are all options as well.

He is giving 2 players (Ake) the treatment which he has warned Timber for, it is just hypocritical. LvG is a very weird man, everyone knows. This is not beyond him or anything.
I forgot about Danjuma but he's been injured lately. Therefore he was not around these last matches. And even if he's done well, he's not top class or anything. It's just a completely different situation with Timber who has the best competition in the world for his position. It is double standards, but with good reasoning behind it.

Van Gaal has adressed that in the past as well. He said that he can't apply that you have to play every week to everyone anymore because times have change. With the players we have it simply makes sense as well. In this case I agree as well, although I dont agree with v.Gaal about the left footed CV that much. I wouldn't put Ake in the team and then bench De Ligt for example, but v.Gaal has also been quite clear how much in favor he is for a left footed CV. so there is reasoning behind it. Timber is facing competition of three world class CVs and then playing time obviously has a big effect. Bergwijn does not have that competition and nor does Ake in v.Gaals philosophy.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Is Timber really going to ruin his chances of moving to Utd because of Van Gaal's threats?
Must he really confident of his abilities. It may happen he has a nightmare season and no one wants him.
Going to the world cup or even the Euros is a really strong incentive for any player. Even Luke Shaw's fat ass got in shape and played in top form for it.
 

diarm

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Is Timber really going to ruin his chances of moving to Utd because of Van Gaal's threats?
Must he really confident of his abilities. It may happen he has a nightmare season and no one wants him.
Or maybe he's confident enough in his own abilities, that he believes he can have another strong season with Ajax, feature heavily and impress at the World Cup and then secure himself a move on better terms next summer.
 

GazTheLegend

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Funny how summer gets people to forget. Varane was injured and average when he played, Lindelof has been average at his best in his whole time here and Maguire was a luaghing stock.
The corollary to that: people have been unbelievably quick to forget how GOOD Maguire was in getting to the European Championship final, and that season overall only two years ago where he helped us to second in the league. People really seem to have a hate boner for Maguire despite his sometimes excellent performances for us. We have always looked -worse- without him (remember that week where we played 3 games without him and conceded some stupid number of goals?). Lindelof and Varane have been utter shit for us quite frankly and in the 4-0 Brighton game particular (where Maguire was on the bench) looked like amateurs, and not international players and 4x cl winners. He needs someone with pace and ability next to him to look good, the same way Smalling always looked better next to Daley Blind because they complimented each other so well. Timber could be that for Maguire.
 

DickDastardly

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LVG is a huge, powerful figure in Holland, Timber is nothing compared to him and would be taking a huge risk going against such a person from his feeble position. LVG is also really petty, which is a problem in itself; even if Timber came and was a fixture for us, I'm not sure LVG would relent if it makes him look bad, and the fall guy would still be Timber.

The next World Cup is 4-years after this, which is an age, especially for a young, eager player, so with everything considered, you'd really need an intermediary massaging LVG's ego and working a better angle for the transfer so nobody has their nose put out of joint (hard for LVG's conk), otherwise it's a massive obstacle I can understand why Timber would want no part of.

People questioning his ambition would do well to consider the position he's now in, and it's a rare player who goes up against a manager whose standing outstrips theirs by miles - it's not even going up against your boss, it's going up against your bosses, bosses boss - the one no one dares look up at when he randomly turns up at the office.
Yeah, but one is your daily job (club play) and the other is your five times a year side job (national team play).

Why would you prioritize your side job and jeopardize your daily job?
National team play doesn't put bread in your mouth.
 

Fortitude

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Yeah, but one is your daily job (club play) and the other is your five times a year side job (national team play).

Why would you prioritize your side job and jeopardize your daily job?
National team play doesn't put bread in your mouth.
Because World Cup >>>>> club football for a lot of players and they'll sort out their career after or around aspirations of playing in the most revered tournament of them all.

I think Timber just wants to be there, but a smart agent will be telling him that he can have a pick of clubs if he shines on the greatest platform of them all.
 

Suv666

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Or maybe he's confident enough in his own abilities, that he believes he can have another strong season with Ajax, feature heavily and impress at the World Cup and then secure himself a move on better terms next summer.
Big gamble that. Only time will tell if its confidence or over confidence.
 

DickDastardly

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Because World Cup >>>>> club football for a lot of players and they'll sort out their career after or around aspirations of playing in the most revered tournament of them all.

I think Timber just wants to be there, but a smart agent will be telling him that he can have a pick of clubs if he shines on the greatest platform of them all.
World cup > Club football?

Let's not derail this topic but i wholeheartedly disagree.
And that's coming from someone whose NT came second in 2018.

NT does not sort players careers. Club football does. You think anybody would know who Alphonso Davies is if he didn't play for Bayern?

So, if Timber indeed has a smart agent, he'd tell him to snap our hands off for an offer and tell LVG to feck off.
 

choccy77

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What worries me, Is how we are going after all these Dutch players, yet VDB was a flop & is this because, no one else wants to join us & so ETH is going around begging his old players to join us?

What if we had signed Potch instead? Who would we be trying to sign then?

Clearly, the club are a mess still due to past mistakes, but it is embarrassing how it appears, we only started looking for players for the past month only based on who ETH might be able to convince into joining.

There are better players than Timber out there as an example, so why focus on him etc.
 

Fortitude

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World cup > Club football?

Let's not derail this topic but i wholeheartedly disagree.
And that's coming from someone whose NT came second in 2018.

NT does not sort players careers. Club football does. You think anybody would know who Alphonso Davies is if he didn't play for Bayern?

So, if Timber indeed has a smart agent, he'd tell him to snap our hands off for an offer and tell LVG to feck off.
It doesn't matter what a fan thinks; players do all sorts to feature in a World Cup: lie about existing injuries; save themselves end of season to avoid injury: play out of position, any and everything they can. It isn't even a question for the majority of players, they aren't putting club football before a World Cup.

If you shine at a World Cup you get more opportunities than for anything else. Perhaps James Rodriguez is the best example of this on the planet, but the competition is littered with players earning mega moves off the back of good, let alone great World Cup performances.

Alphonso plays for Canada, so that's a moot point.

From an agent's perspective, jumping at the first big opportunity for your client is a terrible thing to do *if* you believe he has it in him to be a suitor for a host of elite clubs in the future.

The question is: does he need United? If yes, why does he? Staying at Ajax for a year, potentially enhancing his reputation and development and going to the World Cup is nothing to be sniffed at - your perspective is that of a fan; both player and agent have a lot more to consider.
 

DickDastardly

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If you shine at a World Cup you get more opportunities than for anything else. Perhaps James Rodriguez is the best example of this on the planet, but the competition is littered with players earning mega moves off the back of good, let alone great World Cup performances.

Alphonso plays for Canada, so that's a moot point.

From an agent's perspective, jumping at the first big opportunity for your client is a terrible thing to do *if* you believe he has it in him to be a suitor for a host of elite clubs in the future.

The question is: does he need United? If yes, why does he? Staying at Ajax for a year, potentially enhancing his reputation and development and going to the World Cup is nothing to be sniffed at - your perspective is that of a fan; both player and agent have a lot more to consider.
That's a big IF, if you ask me.

Purely percentage based, gambling your career on 3 games every 4 years is not a smart move.

Footballers careers are not long, 10 years max if you're lucky. Getting 2 big contracts and securing your life financially - that's a smart move.
 

Suv666

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Didn't Timber say he'd focus on international games then go on holiday and decide? So he's deciding right now. It may still happen.
According to the media the deal has broken down and we are already linked with alternatives so it seems like this won't he happening anytime soon
 

Daslogisch

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Is Timber really going to ruin his chances of moving to Utd because of Van Gaal's threats?
Must he really confident of his abilities. It may happen he has a nightmare season and no one wants him.
Ruin a chance or a carreer. Donny has ruined his carreer by moving to United. Has missed the last EC and looks likely to miss the WC unless something dramatically changes next season. Had he stayed at Ajax he would be in the NT squad for sure and quite possibly starting.

It's all about making the move at the right time and playing regularly for a team like Ajax is way more valuable (except for the bankaccount of course) than being on the bench at United. Timber is assured first team football at Ajax, but might not be a regular at United yet. With a WC coming it's just not a smart move right now. He's very young, relatively inexperienced and still has enough to learn at Ajax. Making the move next season, or even in two seasons, makes much more sense, in the best interest of his carreer.
 

Suv666

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Ruin a chance or a carreer. Donny has ruined his carreer by moving to United. Has missed the last EC and looks likely to miss the WC unless something dramatically changes next season. Had he stayed at Ajax he would be in the NT squad for sure and quite possibly starting.
Donny is also shit so there's that as well
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't understand how it is on LVG but not Man Utd if Man Utd failed to convince a player it is his best interest for his career to join them, but sure let's blame LVG.
I think everyone are only having banter at LVG mate. Don’t take the banter seriously
 

Fortitude

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That's a big IF, if you ask me.

Purely percentage based, gambling your career on 3 games every 4 years is not a smart move.

Footballers careers are not long, 10 years max if you're lucky. Getting 2 big contracts and securing your life financially - that's a smart move.
But it’s not 4-years we’re talking about; it’s less than 6 months, which is precisely why it is a decision he has every right to weigh up.

And you’re talking like this is his one and only chance at the big time and if he doesn’t come here, he’s cooked. If he and his agent back his talent and ability, it is actually prudent to wait and see if his stock rises. You have to take note that we’re chasing him, not the other way round, which means he was comfortable with the trajectory he was on, and may well still be - it’s us shaking that up because of our desire for the player.

l hope he does come here, but the reasons to wait and survey are clear as day.
 

Adamsk7

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He’s not ruining anything and it’s quite sensible. If Ten Hag likes him as much as is stated, he will absolutely still be interested in him come January or next summer. LVG is right - he’s currently a regular at Ajax and at his age, he needs to be playing. He could come here and hit the ground running but he’s also equally likely to need some time. He’s absolutely better off staying at Ajax for at least 6 more months and securing a World Cup place. If he’s really gonna be the next big thing in defenders, he’ll always have a queue of clubs waiting for him.
 

Salford_Red83

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Meh, if he doesn't want to come now then he missed his chance. Thats how it should be...


"Wanna join Manchester United. Pretty high chance you'll be a regular starter."
"Ohhh... uhmm.. LvG said... World Cup..."
"Ok, see ya later."


Then on to the next option. None of this "ohhh he'll join in January, lets wait for him" nonsense.
 

KirkDuyt

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He's not been great last few games. I think Van Gaal prefers Van Dijk and De Vrij / Timber for the CB and RCB positions. De Ligt has played LCB, but he's rubbish at it. Or, well, rubbish is pushing it, but the competition is a bit fierce at CB in our team.
 

Bosws87

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Never watched a more boring team then when Van Gaal was in charge, so irrelevant what he thinks.
 

Daslogisch

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He's not been great last few games. I think Van Gaal prefers Van Dijk and De Vrij / Timber for the CB and RCB positions. De Ligt has played LCB, but he's rubbish at it. Or, well, rubbish is pushing it, but the competition is a bit fierce at CB in our team.
I'm not sure if he will pick Timber over De Ligt. They're probably both be on the bench as De Vrij (RCB) and VVD (CB) seem like pretty certain picks at this point. That leaves the LCB position open, where LvG clearly prefers a left-footed player. Therefore Ake is in a good position. If he makes a transfer to a club where he plays regularly he has a good chance.

I don't rule out Blind either, who is actually by far the best (left-footed) option there, but it'll depend on whether Van Gaal sees Wijndal or Malacia as sufficient options for LB. If so, then probably Blind will be LCB (that chance also increases if Ajax sell Martinez and Blind moves back to LCB at Ajax).
 

KirkDuyt

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I'm not sure if he will pick Timber over De Ligt. They're probably both be on the bench as De Vrij (RCB) and VVD (CB) seem like pretty certain picks at this point. That leaves the LCB position open, where LvG clearly prefers a left-footed player. Therefore Ake is in a good position. If he makes a transfer to a club where he plays regularly he has a good chance.

I don't rule out Blind either, who is actually by far the best (left-footed) option there, but it'll depend on whether Van Gaal sees Wijndal or Malacia as sufficient options for LB. If so, then probably Blind will be LCB (that chance also increases if Ajax sell Martinez and Blind moves back to LCB at Ajax).
Really disagree Blind is the best option there. He has never been particularly good at the defending aspect of the game and now that he's getting older and (even) slower, I think putting him as a central defender would be rather suicidal. Van Gaal has always used hin at LWB and I cannot imagine him suddenly switching this up.
 

AjaxCunian

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I forgot about Danjuma but he's been injured lately. Therefore he was not around these last matches. And even if he's done well, he's not top class or anything. It's just a completely different situation with Timber who has the best competition in the world for his position. It is double standards, but with good reasoning behind it.

Van Gaal has adressed that in the past as well. He said that he can't apply that you have to play every week to everyone anymore because times have change. With the players we have it simply makes sense as well. In this case I agree as well, although I dont agree with v.Gaal about the left footed CV that much. I wouldn't put Ake in the team and then bench De Ligt for example, but v.Gaal has also been quite clear how much in favor he is for a left footed CV. so there is reasoning behind it. Timber is facing competition of three world class CVs and then playing time obviously has a big effect. Bergwijn does not have that competition and nor does Ake in v.Gaals philosophy.
Though Danjuma, Lang, Gakpo not being world class. Neither is Bergwijn, they are very much of his level and Danjuma has shown a higher level than Bergwijn ever has this season.

I get your reasoning, and Bergwijn is playing very well for the Dutch NT, but just keep it at that. Either you like Timber enough to start him / call him or you dont.
 

Daslogisch

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Really disagree Blind is the best option there. He has never been particularly good at the defending aspect of the game and now that he's getting older and (even) slower, I think putting him as a central defender would be rather suicidal. Van Gaal has always used hin at LWB and I cannot imagine him suddenly switching this up.
Blind defends pro-active (reading the game) which isn't appreciated cause most people don't recognise that. In pro-active defending he's probably the best in the business, which is why he has been coping fine at any level for a long time. As a reactive defender he has his limitations indeed. He is not particularly strong/tall and has no speed. But actually with 3 at the back those weaknesses are covered better by the organization and Blind's footballing IQ and pro-active defending is actually a perfect fit with De Vrij/De Ligt and VVD who have more of a traditional defending skills. It's actually a perfect combination. I think there's a decent chance it will turn out that way but it'll depend on whether Van Gaal trusts Malacia or Wijndal enough to be a starter.
 

mu4c_20le

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Think he will wait until after WC. January maybe.
That's a big IF, if you ask me.

Purely percentage based, gambling your career on 3 games every 4 years is not a smart move.

Footballers careers are not long, 10 years max if you're lucky. Getting 2 big contracts and securing your life financially - that's a smart move.
He doesn't even need to have a blinder, just not a shocker. If he has another strong season, which I fail to see why he wouldn't, then he probably won't move in Jan and will prefer to wait until the summer where other big boys will join in. He is one more season away from another De Ligt situation, and unless we have an amazing year, we'll probably be on the outside again looking on.
 

KirkDuyt

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Blind defends pro-active (reading the game) which isn't appreciated cause most people don't recognise that. In pro-active defending he's probably the best in the business, which is why he has been coping fine at any level for a long time. As a reactive defender he has his limitations indeed. He is not particularly strong/tall and has no speed. But actually with 3 at the back those weaknesses are covered better by the organization and Blind's footballing IQ and pro-active defending is actually a perfect fit with De Vrij/De Ligt and VVD who have more of a traditional defending skills. It's actually a perfect combination. I think there's a decent chance it will turn out that way but it'll depend on whether Van Gaal trusts Malacia or Wijndal enough to be a starter.
Him being compatible with 2 others at the back with him is a good point, but I do find his footballing IQ and anticipation get a tiny bit romantisized, as was his tine at United for some reason.If he was a bit stronger and a bit faster, Im convinced he'd be one of the best defenders of his generation, but he's been no more than adequate outside the Dutch league.

I like Blind mind you and think he should start, but at the left where there is plenty of defensive coverage from 3 tough guys in the centre. And because I think Malacia isnt ready.
 

Huddsred

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Yeah, but one is your daily job (club play) and the other is your five times a year side job (national team play).

Why would you prioritize your side job and jeopardize your daily job?
National team play doesn't put bread in your mouth.
International level footballers don't need to worry about where their next meal is coming from. But they do always want to represent their countries at the World Cup. Young players who aren't yet established names also know that having a good tournament will really put them in the shop window for a lucrative move.
 

DickDastardly

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He doesn't even need to have a blinder, just not a shocker. If he has another strong season, which I fail to see why he wouldn't, then he probably won't move in Jan and will prefer to wait until the summer where other big boys will join in. He is one more season away from another De Ligt situation, and unless we have an amazing year, we'll probably be on the outside again looking on.
He does have to start though.

Considering there is VVD, De Ligt, De Vrij, Ake, Blind and Dumfries in contention, that's quite a gamble.
Plus, he's the youngest one in the squad.

A move to Manchester United makes him a better contender.