Kalvin Phillips

GazTheLegend

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I think we need to get a functioning system before we start buying players to fit into it

I'm pretty sure that if our midfield was comprised of Henderson, Milner, Keita and Wijnaldum we'd be saying that they were not good enough as they'd look useless in our non-system
I feel like we have a player problem not a system problem.

Tell me that our results wouldn’t improve if we didn’t replace Lingard with de Bruyne, or Young with TAA.

Or you could even go to lower level clubs and say would we not improve with Neves and Grealish instead of Lingard and Fred?

Our system makes chances and restricts teams, it’s just that bit of quality in midfield we are struggling badly with imo
 

jackal&hyde

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I feel like we have a player problem not a system problem.

Tell me that our results wouldn’t improve if we didn’t replace Lingard with de Bruyne, or Young with TAA.

Or you could even go to lower level clubs and say would we not improve with Neves and Grealish instead of Lingard and Fred?

Our system makes chances and restricts teams, it’s just that bit of quality in midfield we are struggling badly with imo
We would have been top at this point had we had Pogba and Martial fit for the season.
 

Zed 101

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would be keen on him but would Leeds sell to us???? especially when trying to get promoted??? if it were possible definitely, just think yet another pie in sky player akin to Maddison and Grealish, not sure if Woodward is working on anything but focusing on players are not realistic is our modus operandi
 

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I've watched a lot of leeds and I'd say he's good but nowhere near the quality for a title push. He's only just 24 though so he could develop a fair bit but they turned down £20m in the summer so I can't see him going to us for less than £35m which would be far too much.
 

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He won’t play like that for us. Ole would ruin his progression.
 

Rocknrolla69er

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Yes a player who could not break into the Brighton team 4 months ago is better than Lindelöf.

People seem to have short memory at times. Lindelöf has always struggeled in the first half of the season, but been better in the second half of the season. At the moment he is our best CB as Maguire looks tired.

Phillips was solid today, but is he a average player in a good system or is he really class? Would have him over Matic tbf.
Just because a young player couldnt break into a team doesnt mean hes not good, i remember a certain Maguire who couldnt get a game at Hull city when it was obvious he was better than Curtis Davies at the time and look how that turned out.

I rate White and Phillips as better currently than Lindelof and Matic

Lindelof gets bullied
 

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I was impressed by him yesterday. He did a very nice job moving for the ball, losing his marker, and getting them started in possession and he was pretty good shielding the defense in general. I don't think he has an elite ceiling or anything like that but he might be good enough to be a quality squad player at a top side.

Its hard for me to imagine Leeds selling in January though, especially after last year when they fell apart during the run-in and missed the automatic promotion places. They have a nice cushion right now and I doubt they'll be eager to take any chances by weakening the side in a key position.
 

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I´ve said it before think we should go in for this guy, he has great abilities and the right attitude.
 

Inigo Montoya

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I hope you are kidding.
He’s not! Just about every post is rubbishing Utd in every way. He’ll see a negative in everything that we do or is reported about us.

If you were in a pub with him, you’d soon feck off as it would bore you and start bringing you down :lol:
 

devips

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He’s not! Just about every post is rubbishing Utd in every way. He’ll see a negative in everything that we do or is reported about us.

If you were in a pub with him, you’d soon feck off as it would bore you and start bringing you down :lol:
Is he actually a United fan?
 

Mainoldo

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I hope you are kidding.
I wish I was. I’m negative around anything around Ole. Other than that.. I’m good. I actually like the players other than some people but get criticised for not liking the manager. Even though he’s clearly shite.
 

theklr

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I wish I was. I’m negative around anything around Ole. Other than that.. I’m good. I actually like the players other than some people but get criticised for not liking the manager. Even though he’s clearly shite.
But dont you think Ole has contributed at least somewhat to Mason, Williams and maybe Martial and Rashford’s improved form?
 

Mainoldo

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But dont you think Ole has contributed at least somewhat to Mason, Williams and maybe Martial and Rashford’s improved form?
Yes contributing as in picking them. I’ll give him credit for that. But there is going to be a point as with many young players we’re they need to develop and kick on. Like Jose’s claim as he gave Rashford minutes same for Ole it won’t be enough. Jose tactically stifles youth development Ole allows the players to express themselves which is why Rashford is benefiting but they also need to work on aspects of there game which Ole hasn’t and can’t improve.

In my opinion that is.
 

ash_86

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Yes contributing as in picking them. I’ll give him credit for that. But there is going to be a point as with many young players we’re they need to develop and kick on. Like Jose’s claim as he gave Rashford minutes same for Ole it won’t be enough. Jose tactically stifles youth development Ole allows the players to express themselves which is why Rashford is benefiting but they also need to work on aspects of there game which Ole hasn’t and can’t improve.

In my opinion that is.
It's not just about freedom is it. I can see Ole setting Rashford specific targets that Rashford is hitting pretty well. For starters, Rashford was severely one footed when Ole came in. Several times Ole has mentioned that he is working with Rashford to improve his left foot. Fast forwarding to today, Marcus has vastly improved his shot with his left. Goals against Sheffield , Partizan(at home) all allude to this fact. As a next, Headers is being improved upon. It's clear as day to see the improvements.

Our front 3 of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood has more goals than Livepool's front 3 this season. You cannot just dismiss the feat as "Ole asked them to Express themselves and thats it". There are also major developments on players like Fred who was bound to be a waste of space before Ole came in.
 

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When I see this thread I keep thinking of the deadly ex-Sunderland striker who's about 50 years old now.

He probably could still score more than Lingard.
 

Mainoldo

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It's not just about freedom is it. I can see Ole setting Rashford specific targets that Rashford is hitting pretty well. For starters, Rashford was severely one footed when Ole came in. Several times Ole has mentioned that he is working with Rashford to improve his left foot. Fast forwarding to today, Marcus has vastly improved his shot with his left. Goals against Sheffield , Partizan(at home) all allude to this fact. As a next, Headers is being improved upon. It's clear as day to see the improvements.

Our front 3 of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood has more goals than Livepool's front 3 this season. You cannot just dismiss the feat as "Ole asked them to Express themselves and thats it". There are also major developments on players like Fred who was bound to be a waste of space before Ole came in.
His finishing is not the part of the game that’s been concerning and he still finishes like he did 24 months ago, I don’t see anything different in his style he is still instinctive. What he severely lacks is a football brain.. and he’s yet to improve on that. Against Wolves was probably the most recent explain. We was on the attack on the left hand side with Williams making a perfect run on the outside of him.. instead of waiting to give that ball he cuts inside into traffic and loses possession trying to play the eye of a needle pass.

The way we play these attacking plans should happen every game.. he should already know Williams/Shaw/Young is making that run and screwing at them if they don’t.. But instead he continues to make stupid decisions. Man City at home last season.. completely ruined any counter attack with poor selections of passing. Love him as a player but he really does need programming on what to do on the pitch.

Fred again.. all he needed was more game time he did well when he came in at this stage last season then was banished. He only started this season because we had no one else. It’s more of Ole falling on him instead of some master plan of development. Nothing wrong with that.. that’s how we got Rashford I’m just not going to give him credit for it.
 

ash_86

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His finishing is not the part of the game that’s been concerning and he still finishes like he did 24 months ago, I don’t see anything different in his style he is still instinctive. What he severely lacks is a football brain.. and he’s yet to improve on that. Against Wolves was probably the most recent explain. We was on the attack on the left hand side with Williams making a perfect run on the outside of him.. instead of waiting to give that ball he cuts inside into traffic and loses possession trying to play the eye of a needle pass.

The way we play these attacking plans should happen every game.. he should already know Williams/Shaw/Young is making that run and screwing at them if they don’t.. But instead he continues to make stupid decisions. Man City at home last season.. completely ruined any counter attack with poor selections of passing. Love him as a player but he really does need programming on what to do on the pitch.

Fred again.. all he needed was more game time he did well when he came in at this stage last season then was banished. He only started this season because we had no one else. It’s more of Ole falling on him instead of some master plan of development. Nothing wrong with that.. that’s how we got Rashford I’m just not going to give him credit for it.
Decision making comes with age. Watch Jesus at Man City who's of Rashford's age . He messes up a lot of easy passes and goes for the extraordinary when an easy option was waiting in front of goal. Sterling was also the same probably a year or two back. He used to do too much by himself and spoof the shot at the end. These players are being trained by the best in the game and still you can see them do the same thing you see Rashford do. It's a learning curve and that's how young players progresses, by making mistakes. Rashford decision making has severely improved this season than previous ones. Even last match against Norwich , he released Brandon Williams that led to the penalty call (). You also don't see him run into a blind ally anymore like he used to do a season or two back.

It's not that simple to say Fred just needed game time. Fred of last season was a major failure an utter waste of 50m pounds. If the manager had no intention of playing him, he would have brought in some other midfielder atleast as a backup if things didn't work out. IMO Ole saw something in Fred and he gave him an important Role to play in the team. Now all our attacks flow through him all of a sudden. Credit has to be given where its due. We can't just keep exchanging phrases like "Scott and Fred are playing well because they was given time" . There was a clear plan for Scott and Fred and what's exactly wanted out of them. They are executing it to a Tee
 

He'sRaldo

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I agree, certain coaches have systems that make players better than their skill should allow, Klopp is the master of this. His teams have had players like Mkhitaryan, Henderson and Kagawa to name a few as key players in title and cup winning teams. Bielsa is absolutely that type of coach as well, from what I remember of that Bilbao team and his current Leeds team, I would add though that Phillips does seem very highly thought of and he does look the part as well. There are certainly worse players to be linked with.
A bit pedantic, but Mkhitaryan was Tuchel's system player, not Klopp.
 

Mainoldo

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Decision making comes with age. Watch Jesus at Man City who's of Rashford's age . He messes up a lot of easy passes and goes for the extraordinary when an easy option was waiting in front of goal. Sterling was also the same probably a year or two back. He used to do too much by himself and spoof the shot at the end. These players are being trained by the best in the game and still you can see them do the same thing you see Rashford do. It's a learning curve and that's how young players progresses, by making mistakes. Rashford decision making has severely improved this season than previous ones. Even last match against Norwich , he released Brandon Williams that led to the penalty call (). You also don't see him run into a blind ally anymore like he used to do a season or two back.

It's not that simple to say Fred just needed game time. Fred of last season was a major failure an utter waste of 50m pounds. If the manager had no intention of playing him, he would have brought in some other midfielder atleast as a backup if things didn't work out. IMO Ole saw something in Fred and he gave him an important Role to play in the team. Now all our attacks flow through him all of a sudden. Credit has to be given where its due. We can't just keep exchanging phrases like "Scott and Fred are playing well because they was given time" . There was a clear plan for Scott and Fred and what's exactly wanted out of them. They are executing it to a Tee
I appreciate your post and I’m not going to deny players have improved and are having good seasons. But with my own eyes I can see that these players aren’t getting the best Coaching and besides counter attacking there is no style to our play.

As for my point on Phillips he plays within a well oil tactician who like LVG requires players to play in a certain way. This also means what looks like a good footballer can be over inflated based on the system they are in. However there are plenty of examples of this with Klopp’s Dortmund players; probably his Liverpool players and how Pep coaches too. You mentioned Sterling and yes he might have got better with age but it’s not a coincidence he performed better under Rodger and Pep. It’s not by accident. They coach well.
 

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Is it possible that Pochettino was at the Leeds game to watch Kalvin Phillips?

The chances of Pochettino becoming our next manager looks bigger every day & he was also with a United man, potentially looking at a player in a position we need.

He's a more technical version of Dier who can play in a back 3 or in CDM so I can see why it might interest him.

Pochettino also bought alli from Mk Dons so isn't going to be exactly hesitant about buying someone from a league above like Leeds.
 
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Mark Pawelek

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He's the best English central midfielder and one of the best players in the championship. Looks like the complete defensive midfielder we need.
He doesn't really dribble from midfield does he? Not at all, in fact. So he isn't complete; although I admit he'd be an upgrade on what we have.
 

simonhch

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He doesn't really dribble from midfield does he? Not at all, in fact. So he isn't complete; although I admit he'd be an upgrade on what we have.
I am not arguing that he is complete or you are wrong, but in fairness the poster did say “defensive midfielder”, and dribbling isn’t really recognised as an important skill set for defensive midfielders. If he’d said “complete midfielder” I’d agree with your response, but he pointedly didn’t.
 

beingshe7don

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Is it possible that Pochettino was at the Leeds game to watch Kalvin Phillips?

The chances of Pochettino becoming our next manager looks bigger every day & he was also with a United man, potentially looking at a player in a position we need.

He's a more technical version of Dier who can play in a back 3 or in CDM so I can see why it might interest him.

Pochettino also bought alli from Mk Dons so isn't going to be exactly hesitant about buying someone from a league above like Leeds.
Kalvin Phillips is a Leeds United fan. And doesn't look like any Leeds fan will turn their back and join Man Utd.

And then people will bring up Alan Smith but he had to leave because Leeds were in trouble financially and had to sell to the highest bidder. In today's market, there are a lot more teams that can match our bids. So yeah this may not happen. If we do get him, he a quality player no doubt. He would improve our DM situation tremendously. The lack of a proper DM has led us to concede goals this season despite having a decent defense. A quality DM would have a Van Dijk type influence in our team.
 

Mainoldo

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Kalvin Phillips is a Leeds United fan. And doesn't look like any Leeds fan will turn their back and join Man Utd.

And then people will bring up Alan Smith but he had to leave because Leeds were in trouble financially and had to sell to the highest bidder. In today's market, there are a lot more teams that can match our bids. So yeah this may not happen. If we do get him, he a quality player no doubt. He would improve our DM situation tremendously. The lack of a proper DM has led us to concede goals this season despite having a decent defense. A quality DM would have a Van Dijk type influence in our team.
It’s called professional football. Professional being the most important bit. He’s not going to turn down Manchester United for this current Leeds. He doesn’t have that kind of power.
 

beingshe7don

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It’s called professional football. Professional being the most important bit. He’s not going to turn down Manchester United for this current Leeds. He doesn’t have that kind of power.
If it's a choice between Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester and United, I'm pretty sure I know which one he wouldn't pick. To quote myself from my last post "In today's market, there are a lot more clubs that can match our bids". So yes, it is professional football but it's not like we are at the pinnacle of football at the moment that can attract talent left and right.
 

Mainoldo

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If it's a choice between Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester and United, I'm pretty sure I know which one he wouldn't pick. To quote myself from my last post "In today's market, there are a lot more clubs that can match our bids". So yes, it is professional football but it's not like we are at the pinnacle of football at the moment that can attract talent left and right.
If he doesn’t chose us it’s got nothing to do with being a Leeds fan. He will make a professional decision. He’s what 21? We’ve never been rivals in his life time to even car that much.
 

sherrinford

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He doesn't really dribble from midfield does he? Not at all, in fact. So he isn't complete; although I admit he'd be an upgrade on what we have.
Is dribbling really something which springs into your mind when describing a player as a ‘complete defensive midfielder’? I would think the poster is merely talking about an ability to excel in terms of both attacking and defending - typically, good destructive players don’t offer as much in possession and vice versa. I would certainly say Keane and Schweinsteiger were complete but wouldn’t call them dribblers.

That being said, I’m not sure I would agree anyway. In the games I’ve seen, though his touch is very tight and passing crisp, I wouldn’t describe him as a playmaker really - his defensive game is superior to his contributions on the ball.
 

Harry Harries

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If it's a choice between Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester and United, I'm pretty sure I know which one he wouldn't pick. To quote myself from my last post "In today's market, there are a lot more clubs that can match our bids". So yes, it is professional football but it's not like we are at the pinnacle of football at the moment that can attract talent left and right.
Leicester have Ndidi, Liverpool Fabinho, and Chelsea Jorginho. None of them have a pressing need for a DM, though I can see Arsenal and City seeing it as a position that may need addressing.
 

MileStolar

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Kalvin Phillips is a Leeds United fan. And doesn't look like any Leeds fan will turn their back and join Man Utd.

And then people will bring up Alan Smith but he had to leave because Leeds were in trouble financially and had to sell to the highest bidder. In today's market, there are a lot more teams that can match our bids. So yeah this may not happen. If we do get him, he a quality player no doubt. He would improve our DM situation tremendously. The lack of a proper DM has led us to concede goals this season despite having a decent defense. A quality DM would have a Van Dijk type influence in our team.
Same was said about Maguire yet we haven't been defending any better have we?
 

Mark Pawelek

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Is dribbling really something which springs into your mind when describing a player as a ‘complete defensive midfielder’? I would think the poster is merely talking about an ability to excel in terms of both attacking and defending - typically, good destructive players don’t offer as much in possession and vice versa. I would certainly say Keane and Schweinsteiger were complete but wouldn’t call them dribblers.

That being said, I’m not sure I would agree anyway. In the games I’ve seen, though his touch is very tight and passing crisp, I wouldn’t describe him as a playmaker really - his defensive game is superior to his contributions on the ball.
Not the most important skill. Much like first touch isn't essential to a striker like Lukaku. But when opposition defenders know a midfielder will never try to dribble past them their defending got just a bit easier; because that's one less thing to worry about.

I'd really like CDM to offer more than just defending. These CDMs can, and do, dribble from midfield: Soumare, Thiago, Bennacer, Anguissa, Zakaria, Henrique, Amrabat, Arthur.

Phillips is good with key passes and makes a descent number of long balls. I think he's a good player.

Why not go after: Soumare, Paredes, or Henrique - provided they are no more expensive than Phillips? I can't stand this fixation on a single player which fans have - when you ignore the player's weaknesses. Therefore, I've appointed myself devils advocate here. Perhaps I should change my name too?
 
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He'sRaldo

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Without any sarcasm intended, how different was Klopp's style of play compared to Tuchel's? Didn't Mhiki feature as a No. 10 in both teams?
Mkhi played as a No. 10 for Klopp, but more as an inverted winger for Tuchel. Important to note though, that Tuchel's style is a lot more similar to Guardiola's style than Klopp's (previous) style. It's very positional and precise, which is a large difference from how BVB used to play under Klopp (although Klopp is using positional play nowadays).

Where both managers are similar is out of possession where they both have a high line, very compact, and an aggressive counterpress. But IMO Tuchel's more precise positional style was exactly what a player like Mkhitaryan needed, as opposed to Klopp's more hectic, "heavy metal" style.
 

Dante

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In a DM/AM/AM midfield (which is what we'll have if Grealish or Maddison sign), you wouldn't want your deepest midfielder dribbling out and potentially leaving his CBs exposed. He'd be there to sit.
 

sherrinford

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Not the most important skill. Much like first touch isn't essential to a striker like Lukaku. But when opposition defenders know a midfielder will never try to dribble past them their defending got just a bit easier; because that's one less thing to worry about.

I'd really like CDM to offer more than just defending. These CDMs can, and do, dribble from midfield: Soumare, Thiago, Bennacer, Anguissa, Zakaria, Henrique, Amrabat, Arthur.

Phillips is good with key passes and makes a descent number of long balls. I think he's a good player.

Why not go after: Soumare, Paredes, or Henrique - provided they are no more expensive than Phillips? I can't stand this fixation on a single player which fans have - when you ignore the player's weaknesses. Therefore, I've appointed myself devils advocate here. Perhaps I should change my name too?
What fixation is this? I would say the consensus is that Phillips, as a holding midfielder, is strong both defensively and offensively. He was described as a complete player because of this and to reject that notion because he is not a player who looks to dribble is unreasonable - as it is not a prerequisite for being effective in possession from that position and is certainly not a typical quality for someone deployed as the deepest, anchoring player in midfield. There are a plethora of relatively complete midfielders in football, but surely THE complete player - who excels in every facet - does not exist.

As I said, I would disagree with what I believe to be the consensus on Phillips from what I’ve seen so far - he’s very strong technically but wasn’t very progressive with his passing. Describing Phillips as being good with ‘key passes’ and providing a ‘decent number of long passes’ makes it sound dangerously like you are reading his qualities off a spreadsheet as opposed to actually watching him?

There’s certainly nothing wrong with having a preference on the type of holding players around or desiring certain qualities from that position, but of the examples you have given of players who offer dribbling in their skill sets, I would question if ‘CDM’ is the correct term for those I have seen - are Soumare, Thiago and Arthur really holding midfielders? No, they are ideally deployed with a sitting midfielder in some fashion. I take it you are proposing United go for Soumare, Paredes or Henrique because of their abilities in possession - are you saying the defensive contributions of all three are as valuable as Phillips’?

I can’t speak for the other two, but Soumare is very athletic and it shows in how he can cover ground defensively and in carrying the ball forward. He also has the occasional nimble bit of footwork to evade attempts to stop him driving on in possession. Without an inviting space to attack or the engagement of an opponent to resist and manoeuvre away from though, he struggles with what to do with the ball and the execution of his passes are well below the standards of Phillips. Defensively, he is far less concerned with what is going on behind him and I get the impression that where Soumare might require his raw athleticism to give himself or his team a chance to thwart an opposition attack, Phillips would have been more appropriately positioned to deal with the potential threat. Soumare is stylistically similar to McTominay and in terms of providing the squad with something different - with qualities that are missing - I think Phillips offers more. So that, for me, is why you would go after him over Soumare.