Kevin De Bruyne

Oranges038

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What do you mean by kicking style? If you mean bending the ball, there's a whole bunch of Brazilians I could introduce you to that would blow your mind, with all due respect.
Lots of players can kick and bend a ball.

If you don't realise that Beckham developed a unique style that allowed him to whip and bend the ball where he wanted it to go then there's not much point in me explaining it to you.
 

RedRonaldo

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I'm not sure how this works so categorically. DeBruyne was deemed the best player in Germany and then the best player in the Premier League at various points. I don't recall David Beckham, for all his quality, ever being viewed as the outright best player in the Premier League, or in any other league.
Beckham was 2nd in Ballon D’or, only behind peak Rivaldo. He was also voted 2nd in FIFA world player of the year twice, only behind peak Rivaldo and peak Figo. Sure that would mean he is being viewed as best player in the league at some point too?
 
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He certainly took a big step in italy that's for sure. I suppose getting dumped from Chelsea just made him work even harder which is an impressive mentality.

I must admit also from the few times I saw him at Chelsea I didn't see it either - but then again the amount he played/conditions just never let him reach his best form. Probably just the wrong step at that point in his career.

KDB always looked a player but Jose just used him in such weird situations. I remember he played him at OT as a false 9, he was completely useless and got subbed at 45 minutes. How on earth can that be helpful? Jose really was an odd manager sometimes. No surprises once he found a manager that played him in the right position and believed in him, he blossomed. The talent was always there to see.
Yeah I remember that game at OT. I think Jose played KDB just one more time after that game and it was an early round cup game against Swindon. A game we won but Jose wasn't happy with the application of a couple of players, KDB being one of them. Rarely saw him again after that and in January he asked for a transfer and that was it. Utter waste of a player as close to generational as you'll get.
 

AltiUn

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Beckham was 2nd in Ballon D’or, only behind peak Rivaldo. He was also voted 2nd in FIFA world player of the year twice, only behind peak Rivaldo and peak Figo. Sure that would mean he is being viewed as best player in the league at one point too?
You can gleam a lot about when a poster started watching football by their opinions on Beckham. Modern football fans seem to think he was a glorified free kick merchant.
 

Rooney in Paris

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You can gleam a lot about when a poster started watching football by their opinions on Beckham. Modern football fans seem to think he was a glorified free kick merchant.
The re-writing of David Beckham's career, and the underrating of his peak, is something that will never cease to amaze me.
 

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Disagree about Salah. It gets said a lot that he didn’t look too good at Chelsea but even then he had an amazing knack for getting on the end of chances. He was a woeful finisher at the time but that’s the sort of thing that can be improved with age, whereas being able to sniff out such a high volume of chances isn’t something you can really teach.
Maybe, but I didn't see it at the time. If I re-watch all the games from his Chelsea period with a more informed eye, I might end up with a different perspective but I was happy to sell him at the time and I wasn't even particularly upset or scared when he rocked up at Liverpool. KDB on the hand, I was devastated when we sold him and I was horrified when City signed him not long after that.
 

RedRonaldo

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Nope.

Beckham was technically unique, basically invented a whole new way of hitting a football and could manipulate the ball in ways KDB could only dream of doing.

For me Beckham was technically and physically just a far better player. He also showed up in the big games when his team needed something.
Agree Beckham is very special, in my opinion, no one ever cross the ball better than Beckham, he is a cheat code in football at times, with his pin point perfect crossing. I’ve simply never seen anything like that, before and after.

But I also think KDB is very special too, with his “weight of pass”, in my opinion, is second to none.
 

AltiUn

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The re-writing of David Beckham's career, and the underrating of his peak, is something that will never cease to amaze me.
Indeed, Beckham was an exquisite player, a magisterial footballer. He didn't become one of football's biggest icons purely by taking good free kicks, he was so much more than that, but over the years his game seems to have been diluted down (I blame the 5 million Liverpool fans working for Sky). I suspect if you showed some people any of our season reviews from 94-99 they'd be blown away by how talented he was.

I think there's always an interesting discussion to be had regarding recency bias vs nostalgia goggles. To me a lot of the discussion surrounding de Bruyne being miles better than Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham etc is due to them not playing in the same era and maybe some actually forgetting just how good these players were, had de Bruyne played in the noughties then he'd have been considered their peer, not some next level playmaking savant by comparison. Scholes and Beckham played in some of the greatest sides ever and accomplished feats that even de Bruyne has yet to achieve, conversely de Bruyne also has feats that Scholes and Beckham didn't have but to me that shows their similarity in level more so than a huge gulf in quality we're seeing portrayed in this thread.

It's a similar discussion to people calling van Dijk the greatest PL CB ever, I find that to be another instance of recency bias, had he played in Terry and Ferdinand's era I think he'd have been considered on par with them rather than this player who was a million miles above them.
 

Oranges038

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Agree Beckham is very special, in my opinion, no one ever cross the ball better than Beckham, he is a cheat code in football at times, with his pin point perfect crossing. I’ve simply never seen anything like that, before and after.

But I also think KDB is very special too, with his “weight of pass”, in my opinion, is second to none.
Yes, but as a player he was so much more than crossing and set pieces. People who never really watched him play seem to forget that. It's like people who think Keane was a faux hardman and a thug on the pitch. When in fact he was an incredible footballer and probably twice the player Kante is or ever was at his peak.

I agree, I do like the way KDB passes, it reminds me of Beckham's style. Having the right weight in the pass is something that is not appreciated as much as it should be. Both hit the ball in such a way that the receiver doesn't even have to think about what way to connect with it, the pass makes their mind up for them.
 

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Indeed, Beckham was an exquisite player, a magisterial footballer. He didn't become one of football's biggest icons purely by taking good free kicks, he was so much more than that, but over the years his game seems to have been diluted down (I blame the 5 million Liverpool fans working for Sky). I suspect if you showed some people any of our season reviews from 94-99 they'd be blown away by how talented he was.

I think there's always an interesting discussion to be had regarding recency bias vs nostalgia goggles. To me a lot of the discussion surrounding de Bruyne being miles better than Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham etc is due to them not playing in the same era and maybe some actually forgetting just how good these players were, had de Bruyne played in the noughties then he'd have been considered their peer, not some next level playmaking savant by comparison. Scholes and Beckham played in some of the greatest sides ever and accomplished feats that even de Bruyne has yet to achieve, conversely de Bruyne also has feats that Scholes and Beckham didn't have but to me that shows their similarity in level more so than a huge gulf in quality we're seeing portrayed in this thread.

It's a similar discussion to people calling van Dijk the greatest PL CB ever, I find that to be another instance of recency bias, had he played in Terry and Ferdinand's era I think he'd have been considered on par with them rather than this player who was a million miles above them.
Yeah agree on all counts. Recency bias + Liverpool mouthpieces all over the place have led to this.
 

horsechoker

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Salah is less painful than KDB because I actually felt he was the guy even back then. He was superb in preseason and I remember watching the opening game of the season and he had a fantastic assist for Oscar. Do you know how excited I was about the team after this game?



Salah's rise totally took me by surprise. Even when Liverpool signed him I thought they were getting a good player, much improved on the guy I saw at Chelsea, but I had zero inkling he was about to explode into being one of the best players in the world.
I maintain Liverpool got lucky with Salah, Mane's improvement is much more realistic. If you asked Liverpool to do that again, they wouldn't be able to.
 

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I'm gonna be a bit contrarian here.

De Bruyne is a great player but I can't help but feel something is missing. I think overall he could have had better NT performances in the Euros and World Cups.

And I think his CL performances, while good, weren't that remarkable since he joined City.

I actually think his 2014/15 season with Wolfsburg rivals any season he had for City.
Agree with this take. Nobody bullies the weak teams like KDB. Against the likes of Newcastles and Burnleys of this world he is exceptional and there is probably nobody better. But his big game record in Europe is terrible which has to be held against him when talking about the greats of football.
2016 Euros Quarter. 2018 WC semi, 2020 CL quarter, 2021 CL final, 2021 Euro Quarters, 2022 CL semi, even the nation's league semi. All Legacy defining games that KDB went missing in. When he was needed to turn up in the biggest CL, WC and Euros games he served up disasters in nearly every one of them.


He is a very good player though and United fans that compared Bruno to him should be cancelled.
 

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Yes, but as a player he was so much more than crossing and set pieces. People who never really watched him play seem to forget that. It's like people who think Keane was a faux hardman and a thug on the pitch. When in fact he was an incredible footballer and probably twice the player Kante is or ever was at his peak.

I agree, I do like the way KDB passes, it reminds me of Beckham's style. Having the right weight in the pass is something that is not appreciated as much as it should be. Both hit the ball in such a way that the receiver doesn't even have to think about what way to connect with it, the pass makes their mind up for them.
Of course he is much more than just crossing. He was also great in freekicks/long pass, good in work rate/technique etc. I particularly enjoyed watching him switching side with his glorious long ball, or his linking up play with Gary on the right. He is intelligent footballer too, who always pass the ball with a purpose.

But I feel people don’t fully understand how good was his crossing. He is not just another brilliant crosser of ball, in fact, I rate him as “cheat code” in crossing, because his pin point perfect cross alone, would easily won 10-15 points for his team in a season. I don’t think people necessarily fully appreciate how good he was in that. I’ve watch football for nearly 30 years. No one ever come close.
 

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Beckham was 2nd in Ballon D’or, only behind peak Rivaldo. He was also voted 2nd in FIFA world player of the year twice, only behind peak Rivaldo and peak Figo. Sure that would mean he is being viewed as best player in the league at some point too?
Not to the best of my recollection. Others may recall it differently. United had a lot of good players at that time obviously and I don't have a clear memory of Becks being viewed as even the undisputed best player in the team, let alone the league or the world.
 

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Salah is less painful than KDB because I actually felt he was the guy even back then. He was superb in preseason and I remember watching the opening game of the season and he had a fantastic assist for Oscar. Do you know how excited I was about the team after this game?



Salah's rise totally took me by surprise. Even when Liverpool signed him I thought they were getting a good player, much improved on the guy I saw at Chelsea, but I had zero inkling he was about to explode into being one of the best players in the world.
Every PES player knew Salah's potential even when he was still at Roma. Could beat any defender easily even then.
 

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Not to the best of my recollection. Others may recall it differently. United had a lot of good players at that time obviously and I don't have a clear memory of Becks being viewed as even the undisputed best player in the team, let alone the league or the world.
But you can also argue there was no “undisputed” best player in the team too, as many of them are brilliant - doesn’t mean they would not become the best in todays standard.
 

Andrade

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You can gleam a lot about when a poster started watching football by their opinions on Beckham. Modern football fans seem to think he was a glorified free kick merchant.
He wasn't a glorified free kick merchant. I'd rate him as one of the best midfielders of his generation, but I would say that the iconic level of fame he attained was totally beyond his actual footballing ability. Usually that kind of status is reserved for the likes of Pele, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo.
 

Oranges038

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Of course he is much more than just crossing. He was also great in freekicks/long pass, good in work rate/technique etc. I particularly enjoyed watching him switching side with his glorious long ball, or his linking up play with Gary on the right. He is intelligent footballer too, who always pass the ball with a purpose.

But I feel people don’t fully understand how good was his crossing. He is not just another brilliant crosser of ball, in fact, I rate him as “cheat code” in crossing, because his pin point perfect cross alone, would easily won 10-15 points for his team in a season. I don’t think people necessarily fully appreciate how good he was in that. I’ve watch football for nearly 30 years. No one ever come close.
All part of why I think Beckham was a better player. He just had more to his game. Sure he didn't use his left foot much but he did use it to destroy Germany that one time.
 

RedRonaldo

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All part of why I think Beckham was a better player. He just had more to his game. Sure he didn't use his left foot much but he did use it to destroy Germany that one time.
Personally I’d rate them both similar actually. I do rate Beckham very high, but I also rate KDB very high too - he is clearly the best midfielder in the world today. However if we bring back KDB in Beckham’s era, I’d probably rate him similar as Beckham, but maybe a tier lower than the likes of Zidane, Figo, Rivaldo during their peak.

Unlike today, Beckham was playing in the golden era of midfielders, with many Ballon D’or contenders/winners playing as midfielders.
 

Tavern in the town

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Zidane was less consistent than De Bruyne in the league and Europe for what it's worth
This is spot on and something people are scared to mention. I think he’s one of the most overrated footballers in history and he’s remembered a lot more fondly because he was superb in big games. In terms of on a week to week basis he was very inconsistent.
 

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Surely will go down as one of the best players in Premier League history. I'd have him up there, anyway. Think he's exceptional.
 

Andrade

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From 99 treble winning team (no undisputed best player), to any team of today (best player)
Well I think most people would say that KDB is the best player in City's recent team, even though they have lots of great players. DB doesn't stand out in United's side in the same way IMO.
 

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Indeed, Beckham was an exquisite player, a magisterial footballer. He didn't become one of football's biggest icons purely by taking good free kicks, he was so much more than that, but over the years his game seems to have been diluted down (I blame the 5 million Liverpool fans working for Sky). I suspect if you showed some people any of our season reviews from 94-99 they'd be blown away by how talented he was.
I think part of the reason Beckham is now highly underrated is that the four-man midfield is a rarity, and so it becomes less common for you to make positive direct comparisons to current players. I know he played central midfield too, but his prime position/role (as a wide midfielder) is as much as anachronism to the modern game as someone like Duncan Edwards's was.
 

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Technically Lukaku scored the winner in that game.

And De Bruyne had prime Hazard in the 2018 World Cup, and more than enough weapons around him to beat Wales in 2016. Let's not act like Messi's Argentina or Ronaldo's Portugal were better than what De Bruyne had around him at Belgium during 2014-2018, let alone Uruguay. His generation disappointed in the end.
It was De Bruyne vs the USA in 2014, the first time in their history they reached the quarter finals.

"Prime Hazard" in 2018 did nothing in the KOs.

The Generation disappointed, yes but Messi and Ronaldo are still better than all of them.
 

RedRonaldo

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Well I think most people would say that KDB is the best player in City's recent team, even though they have lots of great players. DB doesn't stand out in United's side in the same way IMO.
That’s where you don’t get - the United side Beckham played back then has peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs etc. when they won the treble. Which current player from City side (apart from KDB) do you think is comparable to peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs? They are literally all time best PL players.
 

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That’s where you don’t get - the United side Beckham played back then has peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs etc. when they won the treble. Which current player from City side (apart from KDB) do you think is comparable to peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs? They are literally all time best PL players.
This is just revisionist. At no point during their playing careers were either of Scholes or Giggs considered our best player.

Keane, yes.
 

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It was De Bruyne vs the USA in 2014, the first time in their history they reached the quarter finals.

"Prime Hazard" in 2018 did nothing in the KOs.

The Generation disappointed, yes but Messi and Ronaldo are still better than all of them.
Wrong again on two counts. De Bruyne scored the 1-0, it ended 2-1, so Lukaku's second goal is the "winning goal". It wasn't the first time we reached the QFs as we played a semifinal in Mexico 1986. Get your facts straight mate.
 

RedRonaldo

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This is just revisionist. At no point during their playing careers were either of Scholes or Giggs considered our best player.

Keane, yes.
See you are just running back in circles

Your question is basically "at no point during their careers of "Scholes" or "Giggs" or "Beckham" being considered our best player"

Because they are all among our best, and among all time PL best, hence its really hard to pinpoint one clearly over the other, do you get it?

KDB doesn't have any player in current City side comparable to Scholes, Giggs or Beckham. They are brilliant as a team, but none, except KDB, would be consider PL all time best.
 

Andrade

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That’s where you don’t get - the United side Beckham played back then has peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs etc. when they won the treble. Which current player from City side (apart from KDB) do you think is comparable to peak Keane, Scholes and Giggs? They are literally all time best PL players.
This iteration maybe, but the previous bunch that KDB also played with e.g. Aguero, Silva, Kompany etc are very comparable to the players that you named.
 

Andrade

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Wrong again on two counts. De Bruyne scored the 1-0, it ended 2-1, so Lukaku's second goal is the "winning goal". It wasn't the first time we reached the QFs as we played a semifinal in Mexico 1986. Get your facts straight mate.
Maybe Maradona's best ever performance. I used to like Enzo Scifo's game a lot.