Khéphren Thuram

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Our fan base will say there is no other talent apart from Mount and rabiot but other clubs seems to find them.

I’m not saying this guy is going to be the next big thing but we always seem to go after the most obvious of talents. What is our scouting or data team doing??
Last summer was the first time in about a decade the ones who endorse purchases for us actually listened to our scouting team at senior level
 

Mainoldo

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No one is asking us to sign 16-18 year olds to solve our midfield problem. It's the lack of unimaginative signings who are ready for the first team that we are discussing about.
Who? How man unimaginative signings do Bayern and Real Madrid make?

We attain players fit for our current purpose.
 

Cloud7

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True we could just stop it and build a nice PRocess catch line about how we are building a team to challenge the league and Europe in 3 years time and for fans to be patient.
Almost every other top team incorporates young signings into their starting lineups?
 

gajender

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Our fan base will say there is no other talent apart from Mount and rabiot but other clubs seems to find them.

I’m not saying this guy is going to be the next big thing but we always seem to go after the most obvious of talents. What is our scouting or data team doing??
And how do you know Mount isn't actually the name agreed upon by Ten hag , Scouting team and the Data Team while looking at specific requirements for the team .

Its actually not the most obvious fit on surface maybe data team and scouts have actually done deeper analysis to arrive at conclusion that it could work.

Just like you I don't believe Mount is the right fit but unlike you I am more than willing to give it a chance .
 

Mainoldo

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Almost every other top team incorporates young signings into their starting lineups?
Yep so do we. I don’t get your point?

We’ve signed Antony and Jadon Sancho as recent examples.
 

golden_blunder

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He’s not in our first time after buying him 2 years ago.

We can include Garnacho.. we signed him as a promising youth prospect with the hope he could make it to the first team in years to come.

Touchwood he’s done that.

We need first team players who are ready now.. that’s why we sign who we sign. It was the same decision that seen us not buy Camavinga.
No, he was always set on Real Madrid. Unless we signed him at 15 there was no chance
 

Gordon S

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I've never heard of the Davies story. If true that's a sackable offence IMO. We have to stop this nonsense of asking managers to choose players. All the managers have to do is give a profile of what they need not who they need. It obvious that EtH has knowledge about other talents apart from the ones he works with or sees, his knowledge is going to be very much limited.

Yes when we signed Amad I thought things were changing a bit but here we are back to being shit again.
Maybe not the best source but i have seen comments about it elsewhere also
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...al-urged-Red-Devils-sign-Alphonso-Davies.html

Yeah fully agree, our DoF together with the heads of scouting should be in charge of ins and outs of the squad with the input of course from the manager.
They should have a long term strategy in place and not have to do 180s every time we change manager imo

Yes, think Amad was very smart business and something we should do more. I thought Bruno Fernandes, Varane, Jadon Sancho were good transfers that made decent sense as well.
Thought we actually started thinking before signing. Then BOOM, 36 year old past it superstar striker is signed for 500 000 pounds a week. After spending the entire spring persuading Cavani to stay for another season.

What it says to me is that there are way to many people with a say in transfers. Some makes some sense and feels like the scouts are allowed to do their work, some feels like it is way more managers choice than anything else, and some feels like the older farts in the boardroom gets giddy over getting big names on the shirt, they see dollar signs.
 

Mainoldo

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No, he was always set on Real Madrid. Unless we signed him at 15 there was no chance
Yeah I wouldn’t say that’s not true. But there was the circulated comment by Mike Phelan the club thought he wasn’t ready for the first team which is why they didn’t continue their interest that summer.
 

Mainoldo

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Maybe not the best source but i have seen comments about it elsewhere also
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...al-urged-Red-Devils-sign-Alphonso-Davies.html

Yeah fully agree, our DoF together with the heads of scouting should be in charge of ins and outs of the squad with the input of course from the manager.
They should have a long term strategy in place and not have to do 180s every time we change manager imo

Yes, think Amad was very smart business and something we should do more. I thought Bruno Fernandes, Varane, Jadon Sancho were good transfers that made decent sense as well.
Thought we actually started thinking before signing. Then BOOM, 36 year old past it superstar striker is signed for 500 000 pounds a week. After spending the entire spring persuading Cavani to stay for another season.

What it says to me is that there are way to many people with a say in transfers. Some makes some sense and feels like the scouts are allowed to do their work, some feels like it is way more managers choice than anything else, and some feels like the older farts in the boardroom gets giddy over getting big names on the shirt, they see dollar signs.
What happens when you have Woodward and Ole running things.
 

gajender

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Maybe not the best source but i have seen comments about it elsewhere also
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...al-urged-Red-Devils-sign-Alphonso-Davies.html

Yeah fully agree, our DoF together with the heads of scouting should be in charge of ins and outs of the squad with the input of course from the manager.
They should have a long term strategy in place and not have to do 180s every time we change manager imo

Yes, think Amad was very smart business and something we should do more. I thought Bruno Fernandes, Varane, Jadon Sancho were good transfers that made decent sense as well.
Thought we actually started thinking before signing. Then BOOM, 36 year old past it superstar striker is signed for 500 000 pounds a week. After spending the entire spring persuading Cavani to stay for another season.

What it says to me is that there are way to many people with a say in transfers. Some makes some sense and feels like the scouts are allowed to do their work, some feels like it is way more managers choice than anything else, and some feels like the older farts in the boardroom gets giddy over getting big names on the shirt, they see dollar signs.
What happens when you have Woodward and Ole running things.

Davis was recommended as academy signing at the age of 14 according to the article , I don't believe it's even relevant to the conversation here I thought it was about first team squad .
 

golden_blunder

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Yeah I wouldn’t say that’s not true. But there was the circulated comment by Mike Phelan the club thought he wasn’t ready for the first team which is why they didn’t continue their interest that summer.
Oh, maybe that’s true then, I hadn’t seen that comment
 

Mainoldo

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Davis was recommended as academy signing at the age of 14 according to the article , I don't believe it's even relevant to the conversation here I thought it was about first team squad .
I was referring to his comment about CR7 and our decision making.

Ignored the Davis bit as I’m not surprised it was someone being hysterical with something not true. A bit like we turned down Haaland from Molde.
 

golden_blunder

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Davis was recommended as academy signing at the age of 14 according to the article , I don't believe it's even relevant to the conversation here I thought it was about first team squad .
Going by some, we should be scouting sperm and dammit if someone else beats us to a signing, who was the scout that got it wrong??
 

Gordon S

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I was referring to his comment about CR7 and our decision making.

Ignored the Davis bit as I’m not surprised it was someone being hysterical with something not true. A bit like we turned down Haaland from Molde.
Who is hysterical?
 

glasgow 21

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Going by some, we should be scouting sperm and dammit if someone else beats us to a signing, who was the scout that got it wrong??
This is again an argument that get thrown on the scrapheap. If we are to change United these question need answering. There is a detail report online of a United scout recommending not once not twice but made 40 calls to United about Davies. At the same time my brother who lives outside Vancouver ( a United fan) was raving and I mean raving about this kid Davies that has turned up in Vancouver. So the question is relevant who and why was this ignored. It a small cog in the wheel but the culture we have seen for years is no forward planning and to instead be a cash cow for other teams, and it in clear view that we failed in the scouting areas not only for young talent but for players about to get the bounce. Surely this is a reasonable review as with Ciacedo for £4m (and United fan) or are we all happy for mid teams to make 40/50million tax just cause we are incompetent in the previous 12/24 months earlier. We all go on about financial doping but if we have a slick well oiled scouting system then that should be also be a priority (outside of first team ready assets) as a mechanism to alleviate the needs to spend big always. Finally I just think we had the money men waiting to manage signing like with an inferiority complex "Look everyone we bought him for 10x amounts of millions, surely you fans must love us now, aren't we great ?"
 
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Don't Kill Bill

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This is again an argument that get thrown on the scrapheap. If we are to change United these question need answering. There is a detail report online of a United scout recommending not once not twice but made 40 calls to United about Davies. At the same time my brother who lives outside Vancouver ( a United fan) was raving and I mean raving about this kid Davies that has turned up in Vancouver. So the question is relevant who and why was this ignored. It a small cog in the wheel but the culture we have seen for years is no forward planning and to instead be a cash cow for other teams, and it in clear view that we failed in the scouting areas not only for young talent but for players about to get the bounce. Surely this is a reasonable review as with Ciacedo for £4m (and United fan) or are we all happy for mid teams to make 40/50million tax just cause we are incompetent in the previous 12/24 months earlier. We all go on about financial doping but if we have a slick well oiled scouting system then that should be also be a priority (outside of first team ready assets) as a mechanism to alleviate the needs to spend big always. Finally I just think we had the money men waiting to manage signing like with an inferiority complex "Look everyone we bought him for 10x amounts of millions, surely you fans must love us now, aren't we great ?"
That begs the question on how many recommendations do we receive each year, how many turn out to be correct, and who else was at UTD in that recommendations position at the time?

Just because we don't move on a player doesn't mean we are not aware of that talent.
 

golden_blunder

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This is again an argument that get thrown on the scrapheap. If we are to change United these question need answering. There is a detail report online of a United scout recommending not once not twice but made 40 calls to United about Davies. At the same time my brother who lives outside Vancouver ( a United fan) was raving and I mean raving about this kid Davies that has turned up in Vancouver. So the question is relevant who and why was this ignored. It a small cog in the wheel but the culture we have seen for years is no forward planning and to instead be a cash cow for other teams, and it in clear view that we failed in the scouting areas not only for young talent but for players about to get the bounce. Surely this is a reasonable review as with Ciacedo for £4m (and United fan) or are we all happy for mid teams to make 40/50million tax just cause we are incompetent in the previous 12/24 months earlier. We all go on about financial doping but if we have a slick well oiled scouting system then that should be also be a priority (outside of first team ready assets) as a mechanism to alleviate the needs to spend big always. Finally I just think we had the money men waiting to manage signing like with an inferiority complex "Look everyone we bought him for 10x amounts of millions, surely you fans must love us now, aren't we great ?"
We don’t know if we looked at them and decided that something wasn’t quite right/developed enough. We simply can’t sign every single young player that someone reports as being great.
the lad from Brighton was different, we walked away because the deal was too complicated with different parties representing him
 

golden_blunder

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That begs the question on how many recommendations do we receive each year, how many turn out to be correct, and who else was at UTD in that recommendations position at the time?

Just because we don't move on a player doesn't mean we are not aware of that talent.
Exactly, we’d have hundreds of young players signed every year if it was down to fans
 

Lash

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This is again an argument that get thrown on the scrapheap. If we are to change United these question need answering. There is a detail report online of a United scout recommending not once not twice but made 40 calls to United about Davies. At the same time my brother who lives outside Vancouver ( a United fan) was raving and I mean raving about this kid Davies that has turned up in Vancouver. So the question is relevant who and why was this ignored. It a small cog in the wheel but the culture we have seen for years is no forward planning and to instead be a cash cow for other teams, and it in clear view that we failed in the scouting areas not only for young talent but for players about to get the bounce. Surely this is a reasonable review as with Ciacedo for £4m (and United fan) or are we all happy for mid teams to make 40/50million tax just cause we are incompetent in the previous 12/24 months earlier. We all go on about financial doping but if we have a slick well oiled scouting system then that should be also be a priority (outside of first team ready assets) as a mechanism to alleviate the needs to spend big always. Finally I just think we had the money men waiting to manage signing like with an inferiority complex "Look everyone we bought him for 10x amounts of millions, surely you fans must love us now, aren't we great ?"
I mean, Davies wasn't playing LB when we scouted him as far as I remember. He was an attacking winger and at Bayern they had the idea to make him a LB. We probably didn't sign him because we didn't think he was going to be a good winger - which turns out to be correct. The fact we didn't sign him, see he would become a world class left back, is a bit of a stretch to have ago at our scouting/recruitment set up.
 
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Really? Who did they suggest we sign? I thought Martinez, Antony were all EtH demands? Was it Casemiro and Eriksen?
We signed players the scouting team had been following for years. ETH agreeing with them
and the DOFs listening was just an icing on the cake. Casemiro was the only signing from the summer we had never followed as a club, for obvious reasons
 

glasgow 21

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We don’t know if we looked at them and decided that something wasn’t quite right/developed enough. We simply can’t sign every single young player that someone reports as being great.
the lad from Brighton was different, we walked away because the deal was too complicated with different parties representing him
United opted against the advice of their America's Scout on signing Davies its on record. As for Caicedo you have answered my point. We were unable to complete the deal but Brighton was? says a lot more about us.
 

johnnyteutonic

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United opted against the advice of their America's Scout on signing Davies its on record. As for Caicedo you have answered my point. We were unable to complete the deal but Brighton was? says a lot more about us.
Your point is spot-on.
The amount of blunders we've made w/r/t getting young talent is insane.
We have lots of good scouts but they're not often listened to.
There was an article in the Athletic around six months ago that highlighted the failings of our scouting system and pointed out that there was a well-known player that ended up at Liverpool that United had made arrangements to get, but because the scouting system wasn't properly streamlined, the recommendation didn't make it up the flagpole.
And people who make the remark about there being agent issues with Caicedo, well do they know there were agent issues with Antony?
Why did we get Antony if there were competing agencies claiming to represent him but not Caicedo?
 

Mainoldo

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United opted against the advice of their America's Scout on signing Davies its on record. As for Caicedo you have answered my point. We were unable to complete the deal but Brighton was? says a lot more about us.
Says a lot about everyone else except Brighton then I suppose. Even your favourite well ran club.

At the end of the day the Brighton move was the best move for him at the time. He was sent out on loan when he arrived there. That’s not what we envisioned as fans. We would have expected the Caicedo we current see now.
 

MadDogg

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We need a midfielder and nobody has mentioned him in here.

The chest isn’t Chesting like 3 years ago.
Funny you say that. I was actually thinking about Koop just yesterday and almost suggested him in one of the threads as somebody who would be a good partner for Casemiro. However it's not like I've watched him play that often; indeed not a single game this season. A couple of games when he was with AZ (where he was good), the couple of games against us last season (where he was very good in one and good in the other), and a couple of games at the World Cup (where he wasn't that good).
 

Raees

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Linked heavily to Liverpool. Will he prove to be a raw diamond?

 

Lash

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Raw ball-striking is getting me a bit hot under the collar.
 

Rolaholic

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Fair play to them, they missed out on their longtime no.1 target but have still ended up attacking the market ruthlessly to address their porous midfield
 

Bubz27

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If we were signing Thuram we'd be underwhelmed but we're heaping praise on Liverpool for missing out on someone they chased for 2 years and then signing a few cheap options?
 

Rolaholic

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If we were signing Thuram we'd be underwhelmed but we're heaping praise on Liverpool for missing out on someone they chased for 2 years and then signing a few cheap options?
I don't know about you but I absolutely wouldn't be underwhelmed with signing young talent MacAllister or Thuram/Koné for our midfield.

In fact I'd be singing Arnold's praises for finding shrewder options as opposed to overpaying for similar talent.

Hell I'd gladly accept Rabiot on a free this summer if that's what we end up with
 

Bubz27

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I don't know about you but I absolutely wouldn't be underwhelmed with signing young talent MacAllister or Thuram/Koné for our midfield.

In fact I'd be singing Arnold's praises for finding shrewder options as opposed to overpaying for similar talent.

Hell I'd gladly accept Rabiot on a free this summer if that's what we end up with
It's been mixed with Hojlund. Lots of fans excited but lots saying he shouldn't be our striker signing.

I'm just saying we're generally quick to find the positives in other clubs but quick to attack the negatives in ours.
 

jesperjaap

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Really? Who did they suggest we sign? I thought Martinez, Antony were all EtH demands? Was it Casemiro and Eriksen?
Aree even Malacia was from the Dutch leaue and it was reported Ten Hag was a fan and tried to sign him for Ajax
 

jesperjaap

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I think people blaming scouts is madness. We have a big team of scouts who follow hundreds of players as do most premiership sides now Following so many always going to get decisions wrong, even the best scouts.

From a number of stories, we have obviously appeared to have got it wrong with missing out on several playes, quite a few starring in oru own league.....but it appears its been the managers poor decisions or the boards....we even read stories of the board not wanting to sell a couple fo players....who should have gone ages ago.

The good news is we are about to have new owners and we have a manager with a vision who seems to be very strong in wanting to get the side he wants.

That doesnt mean a new board doesnt get it wrong, neither does it mean Te Hag gets it right, not meaning in a critical way but to make a point....not sure Eriksen on a fre for £150k a week is actuall a good signing if he is stuck here not playing for a while, none of the loan signings were great and as good as he has been we are talkign about insane prices on the likes of Mount and Kane when we spent £70m on a midfielder who for all we know may only have one more good season in him and considerably more on a winger who has had very mixed reviews in hsi first season....saying that as devils advocate....but I do question the Eriksen signings personally.....since there is so much talk of desperately needing a number 8 this summer.

As for Thuram, I am sure I saw tepid links with us watching him a season or two back, I as watching him two years ago now and again and thought he was a really promising player under the radar behind other names. Barely seen French football this season so dont knw what his progression has beeen int he alst 12months....but talk of £60m....looks high to me even though I like him
 

bosnian_red

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Looks very good TBF. Shows up great on the analytics which really should be a pre requisite to any signing. No good player has ever looked bad ok the analytics really, maybe off years but never fully bad. Just a good starting point to rule out duds like Van de Beek.
 

avgp_1

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Was played much like Pogba at Juve , drifting in from the left midfield position and don't think he was as good as the previous season. TBH don't believe he is what we need, would much prefer Kone but then I see Liverpool are after both.
 

B20

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Was played much like Pogba at Juve , drifting in from the left midfield position and don't think he was as good as the previous season. TBH don't believe he is what we need, would much prefer Kone but then I see Liverpool are after both.
How would you rate and compare the two?