Kieran McKenna / Ipswich manager

Adnan

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Why are you so certain about the Maguire thing? I'm pretty sure we also saw reports of Phelan and Wells scouting Sancho, Bellingham and Bruno. Are two of those bad signings? Would Bellingham have been a bad signing?
Certain about what regarding Maguire?

Bellingham and Sancho were well known well before they were scouted by Simon Wells and Phelan. We tried signing Sancho when he was at City as a 17 year old. But my point is that if you want to have a solid mid to long term plan on the football side of the club, like we see at Liverpool, City, bayern etc. Then the mid to long term plan should be set by a figure head who utilises the scouting and data analytics departments at the club to the maximum. That's around 70 people who are working under that one figure head and hence will have a far more comprehensive outlook on how to develop the team in comparison to the manager model in the game today.
 

roseguy64

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Certain about what regarding Maguire?

Bellingham and Sancho were well known well before they were scouted by Simon Wells and Phelan. We tried signing Sancho when he was at City as a 17 year old. But my point is that if you want to have a solid mid to long term plan on the football side of the club, like we see at Liverpool, City, bayern etc. Then the mid to long term plan should be set by a figure head who utilises the scouting and data analytics departments at the club to the maximum. That's around 70 people who are working under that one figure head and hence will have a far more comprehensive outlook on how to develop the team in comparison to the manager model in the game today.
I have no problem with that structure.

I'm speaking about your certainty that it was those specific people who didn't want Maguire both under Mourinho and Solskjaer yet Ole overruled them/got his own way despite it being said the rest of the committee had a veto.
 

Adnan

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I have no problem with that structure.

I'm speaking about your certainty that it was those specific people who didn't want Maguire both under Mourinho and Solskjaer yet Ole overruled them/got his own way despite it being said the rest of the committee had a veto.
I'm not speaking in certainties but rather sharing information from a well respected journalist like Daniel Taylor who reported in 2018, that United's decision makers on the football side (Bout, Lawlor and Court) didn't feel Maguire was good enough to elevate United to a higher level.

And why a year later Woodward allowed Solskjaer to sign Maguire when he wasn't deemed good enough by the recruitment department is anyone's guess. But my own theory on that is that with Ole being joined on the transfer committee by Simon Wells and Phelan, Woodward allowed them to sign Maguire, because Phelan had managed Maguire at Hull City and his scouting and knowledge of the player was second to none. It was under Phelan at Hull, where Maguire became a first team regular and Phelan would later make him Captain of the team.
 

Abraxas

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It wasn't guilt by association it was a collective failure from a team of poor coaches. Very easy for someone to be shite at coaching Premier League prima donnas but amazing at managing a team of lower league players.
The point is you don't know that he was shite, you just say that he was because of the outcome but with a coach there's always more nuance as it's an under the radar role where the lines of responsibility aren't totally clear, the influence isn't totally clear. That's why I find it so bizarre that our fans fixate on staff when there are legitimate targets that have clear responsibility.

We have very little information to go on and that was my defence of quite a few staff members that garner far too much attention. It was as if the man who is chiefly responsible for footballing performance (the manager) and owners who setup the whole structure had become such a boring topic that we had to find new, unjustified targets for criticism.

McKenna might have been good or shite but it's hard to say. If he does well at Ipswich I would say it leans more towards the former. Managing is a bloody hard job, it would suggest he has good ideas and can handle players and was caught up in a maelstrom of shite which was us at the time. He's got a good reputation in the game, I don't think that comes from nowhere.

It's kind of like as a worker, sometimes there's feck all you can do about the company going down the shitter even if you're highly competent and do a great job. It could even be that your department is performing crap but individually you perform well.
 

Caesar2290

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I remeber reading that McKenna was coaching our team to play possesion based 4-3-3 and Ole and Phelan would always overule him in the matchday setup by going for a cautious 4-2-3-1.

At the time I thought that was just cheap gossip from papers looking for an easy clibckbait article at the expense of United.

But considering that Carrick switched almost immediately to a more attacking based 4-3-3 as soon as Ole was sacked and considering what McKenna has done at Ipswich there might have been some substance in that article.

Another thing to add to the Ole's cultural reboot I guess.
 

AltiUn

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2.06 PPG since he joined Ipswich, a hair outside the playoffs currently. There's a small chance we may see what he can do in the Championship next season, would be good to see what he can do at a higher level.
 

Adnan

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2.06 PPG since he joined Ipswich, a hair outside the playoffs currently. There's a small chance we may see what he can do in the Championship next season, would be good to see what he can do at a higher level.
It'll also benefit us if Ipswich go up, because he'll surely loan a player or two from us next season. And he'll be trusted by our loans manager, Les Parry to help said youngster(s) develop under him.
 

romufc

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It'll also benefit us if Ipswich go up, because he'll surely loan a player or two from us next season. And he'll be trusted by our loans manager, Les Parry to help said youngster(s) develop under him.
You and I might think that is a good plan but there are alot on here who would object to that.

I always rated Mkenna as a coach, he was very highly rated as well. Good to see him do well.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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11 games undefeated. Few too many draws maybe but really impressive given where they were when McKenna took over.

Shows that maybe some of our fans could be a little more circumspect before criticising people’s work behind the scenes. Similarly, I feel some here could pause before criticising Darren Fletcher and Eric Ramsay (our supposed set piece coach who doesn’t actually specialise in coaching set pieces, nor did before he got here… so is arguably being criticised against the wrong metrics).
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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But considering that Carrick switched almost immediately to a more attacking based 4-3-3 as soon as Ole was sacked and considering what McKenna has done at Ipswich there might have been some substance in that article.

Another thing to add to the Ole's cultural reboot I guess.
This is not true, Carrick played essentially the same style Ole did, except added even more protection for a leaky defense. If anything, trying to be more adventurous and deviating from a counter attacking set up did more harm to Ole than anything else tactically.

And its about time we stop shitting on Ole and trying to pin everything wrong at the club to him. We were shit before him and shit afterwards.
 

sglowrider

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If anything, trying to be more adventurous and deviating from a counter attacking set up did more harm to Ole than anything else tactically.
And its about time we stop shitting on Ole and trying to pin everything wrong at the club to him. We were shit before him and shit afterwards.
People seemed to have elevated Ole to being their personal pinata or scapegoat for all their ills in their respective lives. Its just dumb. Even with the flaccidity of the team's current performance under Ralf, they will still blame Ole for whatever reason. It only proves that we do ok despite it all.
It was only the start season that was really the shits -- and I blame that on not getting a DM -- but I suspect that the budget for that was sucked away because we have to get Ronnie.
 

romufc

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This is not true, Carrick played essentially the same style Ole did, except added even more protection for a leaky defense. If anything, trying to be more adventurous and deviating from a counter attacking set up did more harm to Ole than anything else tactically.

And its about time we stop shitting on Ole and trying to pin everything wrong at the club to him. We were shit before him and shit afterwards.
Its an easy thing to do, thats why. The Ole outers will not criticise anyone but him.

I was told Rangnick is a very good coach... we go into games and there is no difference to when Ole was in charge.

We can't pass, can't defend only now we can't score either.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Its an easy thing to do, thats why. The Ole outers will not criticise anyone but him.

I was told Rangnick is a very good coach... we go into games and there is no difference to when Ole was in charge.

We can't pass, can't defend only now we can't score either.
We haven't been able to pass for donkeys years, so I would say that is a recruitment of player problem rather than any of the managers. Although you would think they are involved in the signing of players whose strength is not passing.
 

tomaldinho1

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11 games undefeated. Few too many draws maybe but really impressive given where they were when McKenna took over.

Shows that maybe some of our fans could be a little more circumspect before criticising people’s work behind the scenes. Similarly, I feel some here could pause before criticising Darren Fletcher and Eric Ramsay (our supposed set piece coach who doesn’t actually specialise in coaching set pieces, nor did before he got here… so is arguably being criticised against the wrong metrics).
This thread has become so weird. The criticism of McKenna was he had no experience as a 1st team coach at an elite level but everyone knew he’d been incredibly highly rated with his work in the youth ranks at United and Spurs beforehand. The fact he’s gone to a League One club and done well doesn’t really change any of the valid criticisms.

I’d love to see McKenna get promoted and then you might see a big Championship or even, at a punt, a relegation struggling PL club take a chance on him but please don’t let this thread become one of these cess pit threads where when he loses a few games people will pile in saying he’s shite and they were right and then the opposite when he wins.

This is his first gig as a manager, he’s clearly doing well, I hope we see him in an elite league in the future.
 

Gordon Godot

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People seemed to have elevated Ole to being their personal pinata or scapegoat for all their ills in their respective lives. Its just dumb. Even with the flaccidity of the team's current performance under Ralf, they will still blame Ole for whatever reason. It only proves that we do ok despite it all.
It was only the start season that was really the shits -- and I blame that on not getting a DM -- but I suspect that the budget for that was sucked away because we have to get Ronnie.
THese threads are stupid. Pin the blame on a manager or player(s). People have their fan clubs. Two things. Firstly, Ole was never qualified to be MUFC manager, should never have got the permanent job. The fact we had noone internally to do an interim role rather than bring him in in the first place shows how weak/ non existent the football decision making structure at the club was. Second, no manager or player is to blame. The board and primarily Woodward are, for the lack of football structure, for incoherent and embarassing managerial appointmnets, to absence of a proper DoF or recruitment strategy, to renewing players that are not good enough/ crocked etc. Everything else is a sympton of that fact that the club is rotten at the top, its parasitic owners and Woodward as the most abysmal CEO in football history. Debate the other stuff all you want, it doesnt change this and indeed club wont change until these structural issues are addressed.
 

Brophs

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Apparently they're changing tact when it comes to managers and want a young, upcoming manager. If that's actually going to happen is anyone's guess but they're linked with a few young and homegrown managers.
They might be changing tack when it comes to who they hire but nothing will change when it comes to firing managers. He should steer clear.
 

JB7

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How strong are Ipswich squad-wise?
I think they were definitely expecting to make a promotion push in pre-season as they had brought in 20 odd new players in the summer but were 12th when he was appointed manager with 28 points from 22 games, (they played one more game before he actually took over though as such they were 11th by the time he managed his first game with 29 from 23).

He only brought in a couple of new faces in January and let a few go, but over his time there they were 6th in the form guide with 41 points from his 23 games.

So yeah, I think if I was an Ipswich fan I'd be pretty pleased with the progress given he hasn't yet had a pre-season or the opportunity to really make the squad his own over a summer transfer window. Not a bad for a first 6 months of management at all really.
 

Sunny Jim

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I think they were definitely expecting to make a promotion push in pre-season as they had brought in 20 odd new players in the summer but were 12th when he was appointed manager with 28 points from 22 games, (they played one more game before he actually took over though as such they were 11th by the time he managed his first game with 29 from 23).

He only brought in a couple of new faces in January and let a few go, but over his time there they were 6th in the form guide with 41 points from his 23 games.

So yeah, I think if I was an Ipswich fan I'd be pretty pleased with the progress given he hasn't yet had a pre-season or the opportunity to really make the squad his own over a summer transfer window. Not a bad for a first 6 months of management at all really.
Many thanks mate
 

Abraxas

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Certainly done well to make them hard to beat, it seems. I think he'd be expected to at least get in the playoffs next year.
 

sugar_kane

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Carrick is (rightly) getting a lot of praise for the work he's doing at Middlesborough but it seems like McKenna's work at Ipswich hasn't received as much airtime.

After taking over in December last season (only a few weeks after Ole was sacked) and finishing 11th with Ipswich he's now in the thick of it for the League One title race, only one point off top.

This season they've scored more goals and conceded fewer than any other team in the league, and hopefully they can secure automatic promotion to the Championship. It's tight with Sheff Wednesday only one point behind, but it would be a great achievement if he managed it.

He's also the youngest manager in English professional football which I didn't realise, according to this feature at least:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...o-at-man-utd-and-tottenham-coaching-education
 

Abraxas

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Who would have thought those on the caf were talking rubbish about his coaching abilities eh?

Really impressive. If he got them promoted it'd be a seriously impressive feat.
 

The United

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I think his issue at United was that he was young and had no reputation as a player himself. Players probably didn't take him seriously. There were rumors of players calling him 'headmaster' or something?
 

Abraxas

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I think his issue at United was that he was young and had no reputation as a player himself. Players probably didn't take him seriously. There were rumors of players calling him 'headmaster' or something?
Rumours aside, I'm not sure we can know much about whether he had problems at United in terms of his own coaching level. We just know the team had problems.

But that was never enough to relegate him to this clueless individual that many were keen to do with him and Carrick. The output on the pitch was about so much more than coaching drills and input from support staff. We had a hapless manager and feckless upper management and ownership. At that point how do your really discern what the merits of the coaches were, could any coach really cut through all that? Difficult.

The best thing that happened to them was getting away from United. They've got to stand on their own feet with a fresh project that they can really impact and take ownership.
 

Borninthe80ts

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To remain unbeaten for 7 months is a brilliant achievement in leagues that are really hard to build momentum in.
To do it with an unheralded team like Ipswich is also to be credited as I’m sure there’s teams with bigger budgets not doing half as well.

He seems to be sticking to his attacking principles too which is to be admired as it’s means you have to improve the players your working with and implement a workable system. He also seems to be utilising the youth system too, something which the club is/was famous for similar to United.

I definitely believe him and Carrick got caught up in the negativity that was surrounding Ole and it’s pleasing to see them making a mark individually.
 

Hal9000

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The one that got away.
Tbh he was always highly rated and he wasn't going to stick being a coach or assistant manager forever, maybe he'll be back one day in the future but I doubt anyone here would of given him the time of day if he was appointed after Ole/Ralf
 

FreakyJim

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Well done to him. If things progress well we might have our next manager ready.
 

Skills

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Remember when our fans thought, the difference between Guardiola and Solskjaer was the quality of their assistants?