Kimmich or Kante?

[Ibzhero]

Wasnt Kante the main reason Leicester won premier league. He also won premier player of year in 2017. Will probably win Uefa player of this year and make multiple World xis. Kante will end up as better player and all time great

 

[Dancfc]

Casemiro is a very good player but I would argue that his benching Fernandinho was unjustified.

Apparently Fernandinho has been shit for Brazil.

I actually think he was the biggest culprit for the 1-7 vs Germany but everyone was obsessed with Luiz.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Surely this isn’t even a contest. Kimmich is levels above. Kante is good at breaking up play but is poor on the ball. Kimmich is world class.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Casemiro is a very good player but I would argue that his benching Fernandinho was unjustified.

Fernandinho is a good player but Casemiro is far better.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Apparently Fernandinho has been shit for Brazil.

I actually think he was the biggest culprit for the 1-7 vs Germany but everyone was obsessed with Luiz.

I mean luiz was quite clearly the worst player on the pitch.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

My god imagine these 2 in a midfield together.

I reckon Kimmich is probably slightly ahead based on being able to do more of Kante's job than Kante can do his.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I'm not so sure, they both have very different roles and do them extremely well. I'd say who ever does the job that's asked of them best is the better player. Sure Kimmich is a much better passer but Kante's qualities are just as important as Kimmich's passing to his teams.

It’s just easier to tackle than pass. I was a defender, I have no misconceptions that the attackers weren’t better players. Kimmich is a phenomenal passer of the ball.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

My god imagine these 2 in a midfield together.

I reckon Kimmich is probably slightly ahead based on being able to do more of Kante's job than Kante can do his.

Sub Kimmich for Alaba in this sentence and it’s probably still true.

Kante still wins. He’s more than the sun of his parts. Nobody comes close.

 

[Dancfc]

I mean luiz was quite clearly the worst player on the pitch.

I think it was Fernandinho (and a lot of Brazillians I've spoken to on my travels actually agree). The main area Germany were running riot was the area he was suppose to be covering.

But that doesn't get likes I guess...

 

[Oranges038]

Fred

 

[TwoSheds]

Fernandinho is a good player but Casemiro is far better.

Well I very much don't agree but fair enough.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Sub Kimmich for Alaba in this sentence and it’s probably still true.

Kante still wins. He’s more than the sun of his parts. Nobody comes close.

I think it is very close and personally think they are the 2 best midfielders on the planet. Anyone other than Kimmich and I would agree with you but I think Kimmich is also more than the sum of his parts whilst also having more parts.

To be fair I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying Kante is better as I do think it is that close that it is 1a and 1b whatever way you look at it.

 

[BridgeBanter]

I have seen him play many times, when you compare him to Kimmich or Thiago, he is very limited on the ball, but hes great defensively.

Fair enough if your comparing Kante to those two in that respect, there’s no comparison. However you said Kante “adds little to nothing” to his team going forward. Anyone that was watched Kante, especially most recently in the CL knows that’s just false.

 

[BridgeBanter]

Surely this isn’t even a contest. Kimmich is levels above. Kante is good at breaking up play but is poor on the ball. Kimmich is world class.

I’m sorry this is rubbish. Are you really suggesting Kante isn’t a world class midfielder?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I think it was Fernandinho (and a lot of Brazillians I've spoken to on my travels actually agree). The main area Germany were running riot was the area he was suppose to be covering.

But that doesn't get likes I guess...

I mean you are a Chelsea fan so makes sense why you’d excuse luiz

 

[Abraxas]

It always feels as if players outside the premier league get pumped up, I don't know if it's sometimes an attempt to seem cultured with respect to these things, but Kante is a phenomenal player.

He's won it all, and not only that but he helped achieve the impossible with Leicester. That achievement was beyond ridiculous, there is simply not a chance they get close without Kante.

To me being great for Bayern isn't something that gets me that excited. Let's see him be great for Germany, let's see him be great at a team that for the most part doesn't have complete domination.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I’m sorry this is rubbish. Are you really suggesting Kante isn’t a world class midfielder?

Of course he isn’t. He’s a limited player who’s made a name for his energy. He’s massively overrated. It’s far harder to be a creator than a water carrier.

 

[tentan]

Kante easily.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Well I very much don't agree but fair enough.

Honestly don’t see how you can argue with their respective track records.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Kante easily.

Why?

 

[BridgeBanter]

Of course he isn’t. He’s a limited player who’s made a name for his energy. He’s massively overrated. It’s far harder to be a creator than a water carrier.

Ok gotcha. So clearly the overwhelming majority of the footballing community that think he’s world class, current and ex players and managers included, are all wrong and you got it right. Absolute nonsense take.

 

[Dancfc]

I mean you are a Chelsea fan so makes sense why you’d excuse luiz

Never said I was excusing him, i said Fernandinho was even worse (and unlike you explained why I think that) an opinion many Brazillian fans share.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Kimmich is clearly better

 

[Abraxas]

It’s just easier to tackle than pass. I was a defender, I have no misconceptions that the attackers weren’t better players. Kimmich is a phenomenal passer of the ball.

But this isn't that important in my opinion because we are talking about overall midfield play in current football, I don't think managers look at it so reductively as who is the best at simply passing in comparison to a whole host of qualities that define defensive ability. They look at the roles they need in their side and most will have some balance that acknowledges the demands of modern football.

It might be easier to tackle than pass but it's not as if one is a godlike passer and the other can't pass wind so how important is that idea that passing should be overvalued in comparison to other skills? Or it can be approached from the other side, it's not as if one is a defensive powerhouse and the other a lightweight luxury player either. I don't get why it is important to skew towards one skill over another at the outset.

They have differing abilities in different areas. The easiest testament to the idea that they're already within a very small bracket of players is that you cannot go out and find Kante or Kimmich type players growing on trees so it is logical that looking at passing and tackling is not enough. I would say it's a lot more interesting to look at who they've played for and what they've achieved. Kimmich has a lot going for him in that regard but I'd say Kante has more impressive individual contributions within less favoured club sides, or propelling a French side where without him the balance is unworkable.

 

[TwoSheds]

Honestly don’t see how you can argue with their respective track records.

Fernandinho Vs Casemiro? Really? So like we can't argue which is better from Didi Hamann or Daniele De Rossi because one won more Champions Leagues? Is that how this works?

 

[Frank Sinatra Fan]

Kante for me. Kimmich might be more versatile and a better passer but he’s a luxury player for me. I don’t get the same hard on for players who work well in possession-based systems as the rest of you.

Kimmich was the center of Bayern's midfield this season. If all you said is being a luxury player, then Xavi was a luxury player

 

[Frank Sinatra Fan]

It always feels as if players outside the premier league get pumped up, I don't know if it's sometimes an attempt to seem cultured with respect to these things, but Kante is a phenomenal player.

He's won it all, and not only that but he helped achieve the impossible with Leicester. That achievement was beyond ridiculous, there is simply not a chance they get close without Kante.

To me being great for Bayern isn't something that gets me that excited. Let's see him be great for Germany, let's see him be great at a team that for the most part doesn't have complete domination.

Rubbish argument. I saw people throw that argument all the time against Xavi, Iniesta. Even Messi

 

[Zaphod2319]

Rubbish argument. I saw people throw that argument all the time against Xavi, Iniesta. Even Messi

It is actually not a bad rubric. Is Kimmich as dominate when he plays with his national team as he is at Bayern? Kante does it both for Chelsea and France. I have not seen enough of Kimmich in both situations to have an educated judgement.

 

[SirReginald]

Kimmich was the center of Bayern's midfield this season. If all you said is being a luxury player, then Xavi was a luxury player

Ok. If playing for Bayern can make Gnabry look good then it doesn’t really say much to say he played in midfield.

I haven’t watched Bayern so I can’t say who is better but Bayern didn’t exactly do anything out the ordinary this year and got dumped out the CL. So you could say they under achieved this year in some respects.

>>Key player in team that didn’t hit its expectations and makes average players look good.<<

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Never said I was excusing him, i said Fernandinho was even worse (and unlike you explained why I think that) an opinion many Brazillian fans share.

What does it matter what Brazilian fans think, exactly? Millions of people were watching that game, doesn't matter what nationality you are. Fernandinho was very poor in that game, like really dreadful, but Luiz was just on another level of badness. One doesn't necessarily exclude the other.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Kimmich.

 

[BlackShark_80]

The guy the majority on here don’t watch week in week out is obviously going to win. If he is so fantastic why did Lowe play him as a RB? Maybe there are flaws to his game, just like Kante has flaws, that the majority here don’t see because they don’t see him play week in week out.

I can’t comment on Kimmich but Kante is unique and he allows you to play a luxury player without much drop off defensively collectively. That is huge.

The only reason Kimmich played as a RB in Euro was because their other options were shite.

 

[Davicho]

Kimmich. For some distance.

 

[Pickle85]

Of course he isn’t. He’s a limited player who’s made a name for his energy. He’s massively overrated. It’s far harder to be a creator than a water carrier.

This is all kinds of wrong.

 

[simplyared]

I'm all for comparing players if they are similar to playing style, role in the team, age etc. However find this one a bit strange. Not many similarities imo.
Kimmich by a long way!

 

[Abraxas]

Rubbish argument. I saw people throw that argument all the time against Xavi, Iniesta. Even Messi

Misuse of an argument by other people does not invalidate the structure of the argument, like everything in football it is about context. You then invoke one of the greatest of all-time by common consensus, and a couple more that would be considered up there within their own positions for what they achieved at all levels. What is supposed to be done with that statement, it has very little relevance except to say some people had poor arguments regarding said players.

I think it's fair to look at what they've done and how they've done it, mainly because I don't think anybody can seriously suggest there is a big difference in quality. Some people overvalue or undervalue specific qualities which is already something I have noted, but in general they can be reasonably argued to be within a similar bracket. One thing that very much does distinguish them is the way Kante has been a key part of propelling sides to honours they weren't fancied for. To me, that is more impressive than winning X German league titles in a financially dominant team with few serious rivals, money talks in football as we know.

 

[SilentStrike]

Kimmich

I like Kante, but Kimmich is the best CM/DM in the world right now

 

[Acrobat7]

Calling Kimmich a „luxury player“ is bad even for the often underwhelming standard of these „let’s compare two players we don’t watch regularly“ threads.

 

[Frank Sinatra Fan]

Ok. If playing for Bayern can make Gnabry look good then it doesn’t really say much to say he played in midfield.

I haven’t watched Bayern so I can’t say who is better but Bayern didn’t exactly do anything out the ordinary this year and got dumped out the CL. So you could say they under achieved this year in some respects.

>>Key player in team that didn’t hit its expectations and makes average players look good.<<

Let's not forget that Bayern fell on away goals and were amazingly dominant in the first leg against PSG, but had terrible finishing. Bayern was throughout the season the second best team in Europe. City was the best.

Also, no way Kimmich is average.

And Kimmich won UCL just one year before

 

[MrEleson]

Casemiro is a very good player but I would argue that his benching Fernandinho was unjustified.

I’d have to disagree. Brazil have never lost a game with Casemiro in the side. The one game he did miss was that crucial WC QF against Belgium - a game in which Fernandinho deputised and they lost.